Saddles Issues - Feedback is Cheaper than Buying

[Divided Volta]

Hey guys,

I've been having saddle issues for a while, and due to the sensitive nature of the subject I've found it hard to discuss it in person with anyone. Additionally, there aren't many local ways to test saddles without buying them. I really want to get this all figured out and find that "perfect" saddle for me, so I thought I'd see what you guys thought.

Background: I've bloodflow issues before, and I believe this has led to my over-analyzing any aspect of sitting on bike. I'm constantly focused on how I'm sitting, how it feels, etc and I believe this may contribute to the issue. I'm working on it, but the constant worry/preoccupation does complicate matters. I don't know if this is quite normal, but I often feel that I'm putting pressure on the forward/inside of my sit bones, rather than squarely being on "top" of them. It has also been pointed out that I sit very far back on my saddle.

I've tested or used a variety of saddles and am beginning to get an idea of what may work best for me. I'm not a huge fan of flat saddles, as I've found I tend to stick with one position until conditions dictate I have to move (ie. standing on a climb, very fast section of a ride requiring me to move to the drops and get more aero, that sort of thing). Otherwise I like to find a comfortable spot and stay there. I've gathered, from personal experience and reading online, that a saddle which flares up in the back (has a curved shape) may be better for me. My best experiences have been on saddles like this, but they seem harder to find.

The Fizik Arione, for instance, is not for me. It feels too narrow and unpleasant. The Antares is a definitel improvement comparatively. You would think I would love the Aliante, but I think it's too squishy (but this may have been an alignment issue as I have trouble with proper set-up on curved saddles). Various sit bone measurements (at Specialized and Trek dealers) have found that I have very, very wide sit bones which would require a wider saddle, which isn't easy to find.

This fact has led me to look at Bontrager (Trek) and Specialized saddles due to the multiple width options. The Specialized Toupe doesn't quite work for me, and I believe this to be in part because of it's flat profile. I'm interested in the Romin, if anyone has any feedback, or any saddle by any manufacturer that flares up in the back. If anyone else has any other feedback or tips, that would be greatly appreciated as well. I'm iffy on cut outs in saddles; it makes sense that it would relieve pressure on the perineum, but also seems to add additional stress on the sit bones. I'm really not closed off to any design at this point, as long as it works and feels good.

 

[oldbobcat]

For years I thought "scooped" saddles like the Selle Italia Turbo and San Marco Concor were the only ones for me. Then, when our shop got new Fizik demo saddles, I said what the hell and gave the decommissioned Arione a try. Three years later, I'm still riding it, but I concede it's not for everyone. F'rinstance, the boss took the Aliante, and he says that's the saddle for him.

I believe the trick with getting comfortable on a scooped saddle is getting it leveled right so that the perineal parts don't get squashed when your butt settles into the scoop. This means setting the "cantle," the highest part of the butt, a little higher than the nose. Too high, though, and you'll be sliding forward.

The Specialized Romin or Chicane models might be for you. I've heard a lot of raves for the Romin on this forum. And then one of the guys I work with swears by his Selle SMP--I don't know which model, but they're all shaped pretty much the same, with a wide cutout, deep scoop, and dropped nose.

 

[Divided Volta]

Thanks for the input. That may have been my issue when I tried the Aliante, for some reason I find myself utterly unable to level a saddle properly. Additionally, it was the Vs model which I believe has extra padding. Either way, I find their whole spine concept to be a bunch of BS... I'm about as flexible as you can be back-bend wise and the Arione ain't for me.

Would you support the adage that people who like flat saddles tend to shift more often than those who prefer curved saddles? You seemed to allude to this when talking about settling into the scoop. I seem to be very sensitive to perineum pressure, and this is why I'm generally wary with curved saddles.

 

[vspa]

Hey guys,  I've been having saddle issues for a while, and due to the sensitive nature of the subject I've found it hard to discuss it in person with anyone. Additionally, there aren't many local ways to test saddles without buying them. I really want to get this all figured out and find that "perfect" saddle for me, so I thought I'd see what you guys thought.  Background: I've bloodflow issues before, and I believe this has led to my over-analyzing any aspect of sitting on bike. I'm constantly focused on how I'm sitting, how it feels, etc and I believe this may contribute to the issue. I'm working on it, but the constant worry/preoccupation does complicate matters. I don't know if this is quite normal, but I often feel that I'm putting pressure on the forward/inside of my sit bones, rather than squarely being on "top" of them. It has also been pointed out that I sit very far back on my saddle. 

you can discuss the topic with cyclists and with shop personnel, its a common problem, what is exactly your problem with the saddle ? you get saddle sores ? you get numbness ? or you just feel uncomfortable ?

 

[Divided Volta]

I understand, but it's just so personal I find it hard to do so.

I would describe the problem as such: Somehow there is compression in my nether regions that may be affecting blood flow, leading to erection issues. The pressure isn't quite on my perineum, as I make a lot of effort to avoid this. But, due to the width of my sit bones/my posture while on the bike it appears I concentrate my weight on the inside and front of my sit bones, rather than being on top of them.

 

[vspa]

i think you are playing mind games with yourself, a serious problem with the saddle would give you real "measurable" pain, there are quality wider-saddles on the market, if you cannot find them near your area try on online shops, there are quite a lot of them, other than the saddle an obese abdominal area can compress your genital parts against it, finally, no studies have proven that cycling could cause you issues on the perineum and, bones or genitals, but if you do have erection problems you should visit the doctor and do the exams he would suggest,

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by Divided Volta .



I'm interested in the Romin, if anyone has any feedback, or any saddle by any manufacturer that flares up in the back. If anyone else has any other feedback or tips, that would be greatly appreciated as well. I'm iffy on cut outs in saddles; it makes sense that it would relieve pressure on the perineum, but also seems to add additional stress on the sit bones. I'm really not closed off to any design at this point, as long as it works and feels good.

The Romin solved my woes after returning to cycling and trying among a SMP Forma (not so bad except no padding - I actually bruised my tween sitting down too hard once, and a little too beaky. Also with it's deep hammock, could only find a saddle tilt position that either had me comfy in the drops or on the hoods, not both), the new Concor (which despite the padding seemed to crush my perineum), a Selle Italia SLR (not so bad except I'd go numb after an hour), a Toupe (one of the worst ever over a lifetime of the dozen or so saddles I've ridden despite having friends who love the thing - there was nasty friction spot which caused a saddle sore to emerge after a single ride, also the nose had a tendancy to snag on my shorts when jumping out the saddle), a Selle San Marco Bilanciata (this was the worst ever, in fact the experience was so traumatic I have developed an alternate personality to deal with the horror). I played with tilt on all as much as seemed sensible, but sometimes one has to cut there losses. There were a couple of others.

Whether the Romin solves your saddle issues can only be determined by you. I still get a little numb in the junk every once in a while as I don't shift around much, but it's up there with my all time favs. I'm sure there is a 100% perfect saddle for me somewhere, the Romin is at around 93%. I can live with it.

Hope you find what you are looking for and don't be embarrassed to talk about going numb in the junk, especially in a bike shop. Anyone who actually rides has probably experienced at one time or another and will likely be sympathetic. Over the decades I have probably gone numb hundreds of times with zero erectile dysfunction. The two have never actually been scientifically linked, so your problem may or may not have to do with the bike. I would check with the doc if it persists though.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat .


The Specialized Romin or Chicane models might be for you.

I wish the Chicane was available with alloy or ti tails in the States. You can get 'em in Ozzie land, but we only seem to got the carbon railed versions over here.

 

[Divided Volta]

I hear you guys, and honestly I'd say part of it is "mental". Just, as a young guy, it's worrisome! Not something you mess with lightly haha. I appreciate all the feedback.

 

[vspa]

yeah the Romin comes in 143, thats the wide version, the narrow is 130

 

[alienator]

The Romin comes in a number of different models, including a gel model, and in sizes up to 155 and 168mm. Unfortunately there's no shortcut to finding the right saddle. Some people can ride any saddle and be fine. Others, as you've discovered, have picky bums and taints. If you're dealing with an LBS that sells Specialized stuff, then it's likely they have a Specialized assometer....a thing that measures the distance between sit bones. The assometer doesn't guarantee success, but it provides a data point that might help you narrow your search.

 

[Divided Volta]

I've used the Spec and Trek assorters, both show that I fall into the range for their widest saddles, or very close to it. I wouldn't touch a gel Romin after trying the gel Toupe; the normal toupe was much, much more comfortable (which is hilarious as I didn't find it terribly great to begin with). I really think I'm going to give the Romin a try as I like pushing back into something as I ride. I feel like I have a stronger platform to work off of, and it allows me to rely more on my legs and less on my sit bones.

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by Divided Volta .

Either way, I find their whole spine concept to be a bunch of BS... I'm about as flexible as you can be back-bend wise and the Arione ain't for me.

Would you support the adage that people who like flat saddles tend to shift more often than those who prefer curved saddles? You seemed to allude to this when talking about settling into the scoop. I seem to be very sensitive to perineum pressure, and this is why I'm generally wary with curved saddles.

Regarding Fizik's spine concept, I think your assessment is correct. I think it's no coincidence that our local Fizik tech reps don't talk much about it. I do believe Fizik has an excellent line of saddles, though, for riders who happen to find them comfortable. The width of the Arione happens to be right for me.

Regarding saddle shape and motion on the saddle, I think you're at least partially right. Scooped saddles tend to be shorter, but not all flat saddles are long. I tend to move around on the saddle, which is why I found the Concor and Aliante a bit confining, especially for a larger rider like me. For almost 20 years I rode Selle Italia Turbos, which were both scooped and long. They also had a pronounced longitudinal curve under the sitz bones. All of the newer saddles flatten this area more, some styles more than others, and this is what led me to try the Concor 8 or 9 years ago.

I don't like gel either. To me it gets pushed out of the places you want a little cush, and ends up squishing into where you don't want pressure. Give me a firm nylon shell with a thin layer of closed cell foam. A non-gel Romin sounds like it might be a winner for you. Just take your time to level it, finding that sweet spot between sliding off the nose and too much pressure on the pirenium.

 

[Divided Volta]

Oh, I completely agree with your assessment of Fizik. The saddles themselves appear lovingly made and are excellent if they fit you, but the spine thing just seems like their attempt at having research to back up their gear like Spec's body geometry stuff.

As I don't move around much, I don't really need much room I suppose. I find a spot and stick with it, so based off what you're saying this supports my initial thoughts. I enjoyed the cut out of the Toupe, but it was too firm and just didn't quite conform to what I need out of a saddle. Thought the gel may alleviate the pressure points... I was wrong. Dead, dead wrong. That thing was torture and I ended up going back to the normal version.

I'm thinking I'm going to give the Romin a shot, but I may have made a discovery today. I recently purchased a new bike and during the fitting it was pointed out that I sit very far back on my saddle, possibly because I rotate my hips very far back (possibly related to my posture). Upon his recommendation I made an effort to shift my hips and pelvis forward and I found myself kind of bracing against the saddle rather than sitting/perching on it as much. It seems to have made a big difference.

 

[alienator]

I'm thinking I'm going to give the Romin a shot, but I may have made a discovery today. I recently purchased a new bike and during the fitting it was pointed out that I sit very far back on my saddle, possibly because I rotate my hips very far back (possibly related to my posture). Upon his recommendation I made an effort to shift my hips and pelvis forward and I found myself kind of bracing against the saddle rather than sitting/perching on it as much. It seems to have made a big difference. 

Generally rotating your hips forward provides the best cycling posture, flattening your back and in the process possibly reducing any back pain a cyclist might feel.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

Originally Posted by alienator .


Generally rotating your hips forward provides the best cycling posture, flattening your back and in the process possibly reducing any back pain a cyclist might feel.

+1, some conscious anterior pelvic tilt can go a long way towards comfort and a better overall posture on the bike.

Many folks find that once they adopt a conscious forward rotation of the pelvis that a slight uptilt in the nose of the saddle actually helps in terms of both comfort and stability. Yeah this sounds completely backwards but as we rotate forward onto a very different part of our sit bones it often works well to ride with slightly uptilted saddle nose and can be very comfortable. I wouldn't uptilt the saddle nose for someone riding bolt upright like they're sitting in a chair, that feels awful but once a rider tunes into their posture (as opposed to position) and tips their pelvis forward they often find a slightly higher saddle nose helps.

John Cobb talks about it a bit in his fitting videos and has a decent graphic in relationship to his unorthodox saddles here: http://cobbcycling.com/cart/V-Flow_SHC170_C1P8.cfm His illustration of the 'good' position demonstrates the forward tipping of the pelvis and his fit videos discuss the slight saddle nose uptilt.

-Dave

 

[David Gerchman]

"+1, some conscious anterior pelvic tilt can go a long way towards comfort"
Thats what she said-Daid