Safety: Clincher vs. Tubies in Hills

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

jon-<< The bottomline for me is cost. Tubulars cost money and/or time when they flat. Clinchers just
need a bit of effort and a new/repaired tube.

Time certainly, to repair but a flat tube is a flat tube...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[DiabloScott]

You don't 'know' me but I ride them everyday, don't race. Many of the people here in Boulder ride

Good for you. I think I would like to know you. I like Boulder, I have a T-shirt from the old Mogul-Bismark shop... is that where your shop is now?. I like the way sew-ups ride and I don't race (anymore) either. I also like the retro-ness of them and the whole glueing procedure... really.

I see no compelling reason to switch from tubies to clinchers, for me(I repair mine, BTW)...

I admire guys who can repair sew-ups. I've been succesful doing it about 20% of the time. No one has asked you to switch to clinchers... I just gave my opinion to the OP who asked for advice.

Tell me how a clincher is less prone to punctures than sew-ups, use Conti tires as an example....

OK - remember though that I said "if you WANT puncture resistance": you can choose tires with thicker tread, choose tubes with thicker butyl, and put in Mr. Tuffys or other liner. I usually use Conti Sprinters on my tubular rims - the tread is not thick and the tube is not thick and there is no tire liner. I like them a lot but they are more prone to punctures than my clinchers. Sewups don't get pinch flats but most of my flats (I don't really get that many) are thorns, sharp metal, or glass.

 

[Jon Isaacs]

>Time certainly, to repair but a flat tube is a flat tube...

A good tubular also costs more than a good clincher so if the tire is damaged it cost real money.

As far as repair goes, how long does it take to repair a tubular that has say 10 goat head thorns in
it?? OR even just one piece of glass.

jon isaacs

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Thu, 22 May 2003 13:06:05 +0000, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

> << If you want everyday wheels with puncture resistance ..
>
> Tell me how a clincher is less prone to punctures than sew-ups, use Conti tires as an example....

OK if we can use Vittorias for the sew-up example. You know, the green ones...

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. -- _`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

 

[A Muzi]

"Jon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Time certainly, to repair but a flat tube is a flat tube...
>
> A good tubular also costs more than a good clincher so if the tire is
damaged
> it cost real money.
>
> As far as repair goes, how long does it take to repair a tubular that has
say
> 10 goat head thorns in it?? OR even just one piece of glass.

A good tubular runs well under $20, less than many clincher/tube/rim liner setups frequently
mentioned here.
( Ican;t resist- http://www.yellowjersey.org/tt.html)

But the issue is one of terrain, road surface, riding style and personal taste. Where the roads are
uniformly hard and smooth, with no long descents, tubulars are reasonable. Which is why you see
tubular adherents here and in upstate New York. You don't see many tubs where the roads are sticky
asphalt like So Ca. A stiff clincher inflated too high is just about right for that! Nor do you see
guys riding tubs where steep descents which require braking would melt the cement. Or where the
goathead lives. And at some point you have to admit de gustibus non disputandem.

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

 

[JøRn Dahl-Stamn]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
Campagnolo) wrote:
>diablo-<< I don't know anybody who still rides them for regular riding but I know a lot of folks
>(including myself) who have a set for special events.
>
>You don't 'know' me but I ride them everyday, don't race. Many of the people here in Boulder ride
>them everyday(don't race).
>
>I see no compelling reason to switch from tubies to clinchers, for me(I repair mine, BTW)...

A few weeks ago I participated in a race. After the race I had a 6 km long ride home. 100 meters
after I started on the ride home, my rear tubular exploded. And without any spare (shame on me), I
continued to ride home on a flat tire... The speed was up to 42 km/h during a descending. But I had
to slow down when doing 90 deg. turnes.

Jørn Dahl-Stamnes, EDB Teamco AS e-mail: [email protected] (remove nospam first)
web: http://spiderman.novit.no/dahls/

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

<< I have
> a T-shirt from the old Mogul-Bismark shop... is that where your shop is now?.

Was service manaber in Morgul-Bismark from 1993 until 1995. Our shop is on Pearl Street, M-B was on
the 'Hill'...

<< OK - remember though that I said "if you WANT puncture resistance": you can choose tires with
thicker tread, choose tubes with thicker butyl, and put in Mr. Tuffys or other liner.

Well, you can do the same for tubies, except the tire liner thing...

<< I usually use Conti Sprinters on my tubular rims - the tread is not thick and the tube is not
thick and there is no tire liner

I use these almost exclusively and I get very few flats...much fewer than my clincher riding
buddies...

<< I like them a lot but they are more prone to punctures than my clinchers.

I guess YMMV....

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

jon-<< A good tubular also costs more than a good clincher so if the tire is damaged it cost
real money.

Guess 'good' is where we disagree...I use some really nice Wolber Strada, cost $15, And Conti
Sprinter costs about the same as a GP-3000...

Vittoria Tubies are about the same as Open Corsa(remenber to include the cost of a latex tube).

<< As far as repair goes, how long does it take to repair a tubular that has say 10 goat head thorns
in it?? OR even just one piece of glass.

Like I said, time..I will bet you will not see goathead number 11 in your clincher and get
another flat...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Mike S.]

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jorn-<< And without any spare (shame on me), I continued to ride home on a flat tire... The speed
> was up to 42 km/h during a descending. But I had to slow down when doing 90 deg. turnes.
>
> And what year did Olano win the World's on a flat tubie, with Indurain blocking? If he had
> clinchers, he would not have won...
>
>
> Peter Chisholm

Whatever year they held them in Columbia. I was watching that on TV. Amazing that he could go that
fast on a flat!

Mike

 

[Mike S.]

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> << I have
> > a T-shirt from the old Mogul-Bismark shop... is that where your shop is now?.
>
> Was service manaber in Morgul-Bismark from 1993 until 1995. Our shop is on Pearl Street, M-B was
> on the 'Hill'...
>
> << OK - remember though that I said "if you WANT puncture resistance": you can choose tires with
> thicker tread, choose tubes with thicker butyl, and put in Mr. Tuffys or other liner.
>
> Well, you can do the same for tubies, except the tire liner thing...
>
> << I usually use Conti Sprinters on my tubular rims - the tread is not thick and the tube is not
> thick and there is no tire liner
>
> I use these almost exclusively and I get very few flats...much fewer than
my
> clincher riding buddies...
>
>
> << I like them a lot but they are more prone to punctures than my clinchers.
>
> I guess YMMV....
>
>
> Peter Chisholm

I had an amazing run on my Conti Sprinters when I was riding them. Tough tires! No flats, ever. I
wore several down to the casing.

Mike

 

[Matt O'Toole]

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> jon-<< A good tubular also costs more than a good clincher
so if the tire is
> damaged it cost real money.
>
> Guess 'good' is where we disagree...I use some really nice
Wolber Strada, cost
> $15, And Conti Sprinter costs about the same as a
GP-3000...
>
> Vittoria Tubies are about the same as Open Corsa(remenber
to include the cost
> of a latex tube).

Peter -- again, you, and Andrew, and the products you sell, are a far cry from what's commonly
available to most riders. We should all be so lucky to have guys like you running shops in our
neighborhoods. Sure, we can order stuff from you guys, but sometimes we have to rely on our own LBS.
And for the most part, if tubulars are available at all, the only ones offered will be the top
dollar ones.

Matt O.

 

[DiabloScott]

Was service manager in Morgul-Bismark from 1993 until 1995. Our shop is on Pearl Street, M-B was on the hill

Cool - maybe you're the guy who sold me the shirt! I'm sure you remember the design - tie-dyed with the crazy cat/dog logo (yes I know the origin). It's a good thick cotton T-shirt that hasn't worn out or faded - a great souvenier of Boulder. Davis's Tour bike was on display when I was there - I have a 7-Eleven Merckx like that one, and some GL330 wheels for it too.

Man, all this tubie talk has given me the itch to sniff some glue and go tire shopping. How come they don't make the Conti Sprinters in that great orange color anymore? - I loved that look. I'll check in to those Wolbers on your recommendation - I didn't even know they were still around. $15 a pop (no pun intended) would definitely convince me to ride the sew-ups more often. I also love the look of a spare tire, folded to absolute perfection, tied up under my saddle. My experience though tells me I'll be lucky to go a couple months before I flat, and I probably average 4 to 6 months between flats on my "regular" wheels.

 

[Mike S.]

"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > jon-<< A good tubular also costs more than a good clincher
> so if the tire is
> > damaged it cost real money.
> >
> > Guess 'good' is where we disagree...I use some really nice
> Wolber Strada, cost
> > $15, And Conti Sprinter costs about the same as a
> GP-3000...
> >
> > Vittoria Tubies are about the same as Open Corsa(remenber
> to include the cost
> > of a latex tube).
>
> Peter -- again, you, and Andrew, and the products you sell, are a far cry from what's commonly
> available to most riders. We should all be so lucky to have guys like you running shops in our
> neighborhoods. Sure, we can order stuff from you guys, but sometimes we have to rely on our own
> LBS. And for the most part, if tubulars are available at all, the only ones offered will be the
> top dollar ones.
>
> Matt O.
>
Can you say "mail order?"

For emergencies, you're right. If you're riding tubies, doesn't it make sense to have a few
stretched and ready to go?

Here in San Diego we're very lucky to have Nytro, B&L, High Tech, and a few other shops that cater
to the triathletes that stock tubulars...

Mike

 

[Jon Isaacs]

>Like I said, time..I will bet you will not see goathead number 11 in your clincher and get
>another flat...

A few years ago I pulled about 20 goat heads from each of a pair of MTB tires.

Took a while but I got em all and rode that those tires till they wore out.

>
>Guess 'good' is where we disagree...I use some really nice Wolber Strada, cost $15, And Conti
>Sprinter costs about the same as a GP-3000...

Interesting. Seems everytime the subject of cheap tubulars comes up, the suggestion is that they are
not worth riding.

For me the bottom line is that if one flats, a roadside repair is not permanent and repairing or
even just replacing the tire itself is a real PITA.

Jon Isaacs

 

[Jobst Brandt]

Peter Chisholm writes:

> And what year did Olano win the World's on a flat tubie, with Indurain blocking? If he had
> clinchers, he would not have won...

Of course you are imagining this because a clincher would have done as well for that event. In fact,
we don't know what caused his flat. It seems most contributors to this thread have not ridden on a
flat tire.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

 

[Jobst Brandt]

Jørn Dahl-Stamnes writes:

> A few weeks ago I participated in a race. After the race I had a 6 km long ride home. 100 meters
> after I started on the ride home, my rear tubular exploded. And without any spare (shame on me), I
> continued to ride home on a flat tire... The speed was up to 42 km/h during a descending. But I
> had to slow down when doing 90 deg. turnes.

I see you assess this sort of thing to your perceptions rather than technical facts. What, in your
definition, is a 90 degree turn? The radius of a turn and speed, regardless of the angle thorough
which it sweeps, are the critical parameters. For starters, that somehow flavors your anecdote, as
does the lack of what caused the casing failure and that you trashed the rim by riding on it instead
of getting a ride from another competitor in the event.

I can also tell that you, either have not tried riding on a flat clincher, or are not mentioning it.
I have ridden many miles on dirt roads with a flat Avocet Road (700-25) after smashing an "M" into
the rim on a jump. There was no problem of the tire coming off even with the large rim deformity
that caused the blowout.

There is no good excuse to ride tubulars on the road today, with the availability of clinchers that
out perform tubulars in all departments except weight by an insignificant amount.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

 

[Jobst Brandt]

Mike Shaw writes:

> I had an amazing run on my Conti Sprinters when I was riding them. Tough tires! No flats, ever. I
> wore several down to the casing.

An amazingly unconsidered testimonial. One might draw the conclusion that Continental rubber tread
is impervious to thorns and glass and that the tubes are likewise ideal. Please consider to what you
attribute this "No flats, ever." result.

You've just been damn lucky... or haven't put on many miles on the road.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

 

[Mike S.]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Mike Shaw writes:
>
> > I had an amazing run on my Conti Sprinters when I was riding them. Tough tires! No flats, ever.
> > I wore several down to the casing.
>
> An amazingly unconsidered testimonial. One might draw the conclusion that Continental rubber tread
> is impervious to thorns and glass and that the tubes are likewise ideal. Please consider to what
> you attribute this "No flats, ever." result.
>
> You've just been damn lucky... or haven't put on many miles on the road.
>
>
Could be either, but since I ride almost every day, I can say I've put my fair share of miles in.
The natural rubber that Conti uses(d?) seemed to be better at preventing the little "nuisance" flats
from glass, etc.

Like everything in this life, YMMV.

Don't like tubulars? Don't ride them. Its called a choice. Amazing concept ain't it?

This isn't aimed at Jobst: Haven't tried them? Shut the #$% up till you have.

Mike

 

[Bluto]

"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tubular tires and wooden rims are both a PITA. So are all-leather saddles. However, some people
> love this stuff, probably because they get off on the esoteric knowledge and skill surrounding its
> use -- as if the excess fussiness makes their pursuits seem more important.

You feel the same way about all-leather shoes? How about all-cotton underpants, or wooden ax handles
and guitars?

I grant you that tubies are goofy, because they rely on stickum to do a mechanical interlock's job.

I have no experience with wooden rims by which to judge their suitability-- though they do seem like
an "only tool you have is a hammer" solution to the problem.

But leather saddles were a proven technology long before bikes came along, and I imagine they'll be
with us until cows get to vote. Like leather shoes or cotton skivvies, they have desirable qualities
synthetics can't match. Also like those things, saddles are judged not by strength-to-weight, but by
feel and durability.

The fact that margarine is so much cheaper to make than butter left its manufacturers with a lot of
money to persuade people that margarine was the better choice. For a long time, a lot of people were
convinced.

Chalo Colina

 

[Jay Beattie]

"Jørn Dahl-Stamnes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:
> >diablo-<< I don't know anybody who still rides them for regular riding but I know a lot of folks
> >(including myself) who have a set for special events.
> >
> >You don't 'know' me but I ride them everyday, don't race. Many of the
people
> >here in Boulder ride them everyday(don't race).
> >
> >I see no compelling reason to switch from tubies to clinchers, for
me(I repair
> >mine, BTW)...
>
> A few weeks ago I participated in a race. After the race I had a 6 km
long
> ride home. 100 meters after I started on the ride home, my rear
tubular
> exploded. And without any spare (shame on me), I continued to ride
home on a
> flat tire... The speed was up to 42 km/h during a descending. But I
had to
> slow down when doing 90 deg. turnes.

Why did the thing blow-up in the first place? -- Jay Beattie.