Salanson dies of heart failure

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Herb Dershowitz, Jun 6, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. French cyclist died of heart failure, doctor says

    June 6, 2003DRESDEN, Germany (AP) -- A promising French cyclist found dead in his hotel room by a
    teammate died of heart failure, doctors said Friday. Fabrice Salanson was found dead next to his
    hotel bed on Tuesday. He was preparing for the Tour of Germany, which started the same day.
    Dr. Jan Dressler of the University of Dresden medical institute said the 23-year-old rider's
    death was probably caused by his heart enlarging and the coronary vessels failing to pump
    enough blood.

    ``According to what we've discovered thus far, the French cycling professional Fabrice Salanson died
    a natural death,'' Dressler said. No drugs or banned substances were found in the body, district
    attorney Juergen Schaer said Friday. Salanson, who turned pro in 2000 and was regarded as one of his
    country's biggest cycling talents, was found by roommate Sebastien Chavel.
     
    Tags:


  2. J999w

    J999w Guest

    >Dr. Jan Dressler of the University of Dresden medical institute said the 23-year-old rider's death
    > was probably caused by his heart enlarging and the coronary vessels failing to pump enough
    > blood.
    >

    That doesn't make sense to me ... he can race a bicycle at the professional level, but his heart
    doesn't have enough reserve to keep him alive while sleeping ???

    I don't buy it.

    jw milwaukee
     
  3. Clovis Lark

    Clovis Lark Guest

    J999w <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Dr. Jan Dressler of the University of Dresden medical institute said the 23-year-old rider's death
    >> was probably caused by his heart enlarging and the coronary vessels failing to pump enough
    >> blood.
    >>

    > That doesn't make sense to me ... he can race a bicycle at the professional level, but his heart
    > doesn't have enough reserve to keep him alive while sleeping ???

    Heart enlargement is usually a result of pulmonary insufficiency. He could have died anytime. He
    just chose to go quietly in his sleep (not screaming like the passengers in his car)

    > I don't buy it.

    death is for free, always has been. last I heard it is readily available for all.

    > jw milwaukee
     
  4. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "J999w" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >Dr. Jan Dressler of the University of Dresden medical institute
    said the
    > >23-year-old rider's death was probably caused by his heart
    enlarging and the
    > >coronary vessels failing to pump enough blood.
    > >
    >
    > That doesn't make sense to me ... he can race a bicycle at the
    professional
    > level, but his heart doesn't have enough reserve to keep him alive
    while
    > sleeping ???
    >
    > I don't buy it.

    You don't have to buy anything. There is a likelyhood that this guy advanced to far too fast. His
    muscles and lungs grew faster than his cardio system. Might have been a genetic problem but more
    likely just trying to get too good too fast.

    I wonder how long he'd been racing at pro level and top amateur.
     
  5. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    "J999w" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >Dr. Jan Dressler of the University of Dresden medical institute said the 23-year-old rider's
    > > death was probably caused by his heart enlarging and
    the
    > >coronary vessels failing to pump enough blood.
    > >
    >
    > That doesn't make sense to me ... he can race a bicycle at the
    professional
    > level, but his heart doesn't have enough reserve to keep him alive while sleeping ???
    >
    > I don't buy it.

    Sudden cardiac death in elite endurance athletes is actually a well-known (though thankfully rare)
    event. Do a medline search.

    One issue is that elite endurance athletes have such big changes in cardiac morphology that normal
    standards for screening sick people get screwed up. An ECG pattern that in you or me would set off
    flashing lights and alarms is often (but sadly, evidently not always) benign in an elite athlete.
     
  6. Mike Murray

    Mike Murray Guest

    "Dr. Jan Dressler of the University of Dresden medical institute said the 23-year-old rider's death
    was probably caused by his heart enlarging and the coronary vessels failing to pump enough blood."

    Sounds like what he is describing is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy also called idiopathic hypertrophic
    subaortic stenosis (IHSS). This is a condition where the heart muscle thickens just below the
    opening of the aortic valve. This thickened area narrows the effective area of the aortic valve and
    causes a stenosis, or stricture, in the flow of blood. There is always a pressure drop after a
    stricture in flow. Since the opening for the coronary arteries are just past the aortic valve this
    can decrease the perfusion pressure (the differential pressure across the coronary arteries) and
    decrease coronary blood flow. This condition can be made worse with athletic training because that
    causes more thickening of the heart muscle wall, but it is something that you are born with not
    something that you get from training. Patients can be without symptoms until they have a sudden
    cardiac death, presumably from ventricular arrhythmia. The only thing that doesn't fit is that when
    people with this disorder have sudden cardiac death it is generally after a brief episode of
    exercise, not in their sleep like Salanson.

    --
    Mike Murray
     
  7. Realdean

    Realdean Guest

    I also don't buy it, but being in the medical field, and assuming no foul play or illegal use of
    drugs, here is my view..............Dying in one's sleep from "heat failure" in a person that is not
    over weight, physically in shape and probably had a sleeping heart rate of 40bpm or less is rare
    unless a catestrophic event were to occur. This leaves only 2 possibilities. There might have been
    an electrolyte imbalance that caused an arrythmia or he had a blood clot that spontaneously occurred
    in a large coronary artery. The later can happen to anyone at any time and that's the reason that a
    baby aspirin a day is so critical for all adult to take. The former is unlikely unless his diet and
    fluid intake was redically altered form previous race preparation. Either scenario could probably be
    ruled out on autopsy. Soemthing is not kosher............................dean
     
  8. Us

    Us Guest

    would seem to do with a "catastrophic" lose of blood pressure. Under work load the blood pressure is
    ok because the heart rate is up. as a corallary when sleeping the heart rate drops to low resulting
    in BP crash and death.....

    >>Heart enlargement is usually a result of pulmonary insufficiency. He could have died anytime. He
    >>just chose to go quietly in his sleep (not screaming like the passengers in his car)
    >>
    >
    >
    > Hold the phone.
    >
    > Pulmonary insufficiency? Again, if you are able to pedal a bicycle at 50kph, how do you _suddenly_
    > have insufficient oxygen to supply the demands of the heart. Coronary artery spasm, perhaps, but
    > that's not what the 'MD' reported.
    >
    > I agree that his heart was probably enlarged, but this in itself doesn't cause it to stop beating.
    > Surely, if he heart was that 'sick', wouldn't the irregular heart beats be detected in his check
    > ups? (doesn't France have the most stringent medical controls in the profession?). If it was
    > 'purely congestive heart failure' as claimed ... he didn't have any symptoms of shortness of
    > breath, chest pain, swollen ankles (signs of heart failure) ??
    >
    > If it was my family member, I'd look for a second opinion.
    >
    > FWIW.
    >
    > jw milwaukee
     
  9. I agree with the possibility of IHSS, however I think we all should step back and realize we are
    reading a newspaper report with layman interpretation. We are trying to read into this. I have
    worked with European cyclists and had medical records sent and all of the terminology differs
    slightly from American versions. The term "heart failure" means different things. Most often it is a
    chronic condition that can be caused by many different causes (ie cardiomyopathy, damage from a
    heart attack, long standing hypertension). Persons in heart failure can be susceptible to fatal
    arrhythmias (which was most likely this cyclists cause of death). It is possible to have a mild
    cardiomyopathy that causes a serious arrhthmia. This arrhythmia can occur under exertion and at
    rest. It is also possible to have cardiomyopathy and still perform strongly. Many of you may
    remember ex USPS/Lotto rider Stive Vermaut who retired earlier this year following diagnosis of a
    serious arrhythmia (probably from a mild cardiomyopathy and/or damage to his heart muscle from a
    previous illness). He was performing very well (I think top 30 in TDF) and having worked with
    Stive's case here in th states, drugs were not an issue. Fortunately, Stive's arrhythmia was
    diagnosed early and medication etc will allow him to live a healthy life albeit without competitive
    cycling. By the way, I also thimk the comment about the French not screening athletes is off-base.
    Nico Mattan had a very benign arrhythmia during his screening a few years back and he was not
    permitted to ride again until (after a visit to US for further testing) it was proven that this
    abnormality was benign. If anything the pre season physicals were quite stringent.

    Finally, did not Salanson ride the TDF in the last couple of years? If I am not mistaken, they
    perform a cardiac ultrasound on all starters. A significant cardiomyopathy would possibly shown up
    on this test if it was done properly. However, the hypertophy in and athletic heart can sometimes
    mask cardiomyopathy. "Mike Murray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:%[email protected]...
    > "Dr. Jan Dressler of the University of Dresden medical institute said the 23-year-old rider's
    > death was probably caused by his heart enlarging and
    the
    > coronary vessels failing to pump enough blood."
    >
    > Sounds like what he is describing is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy also
    called
    > idiopathic hypertrophic subaortic stenosis (IHSS). This is a condition
    where
    > the heart muscle thickens just below the opening of the aortic valve.
    This
    > thickened area narrows the effective area of the aortic valve and causes a stenosis, or stricture,
    > in the flow of blood. There is always a pressure drop after a stricture in flow. Since the opening
    > for the coronary
    arteries
    > are just past the aortic valve this can decrease the perfusion pressure
    (the
    > differential pressure across the coronary arteries) and decrease coronary blood flow. This
    > condition can be made worse with athletic training
    because
    > that causes more thickening of the heart muscle wall, but it is something that you are born with
    > not something that you get from training. Patients can be without symptoms until they have a
    > sudden cardiac death, presumably from ventricular arrhythmia. The only thing that doesn't fit is
    > that when people with this disorder have sudden cardiac death it is generally after
    a
    > brief episode of exercise, not in their sleep like Salanson.
    >
    > --
    > Mike Murray
    >
     
  10. Realdean

    Realdean Guest

    All this talk of ihss, or and enlarged heart relative to coronary circulatory capacity is really
    only relavent during STRESS conditions.
    (ie. that's where the steroid filled football player falls over during spring training and the
    catecholamines being kicked out by the adrenal glands trigger coronary vasoconstriction,
    conduction abnormallity or in the case of IHSS spasm of the heart tissue)....That's no
    comparison to a cyclist who is sleeping in a deep state of rest. Again, I am new to cycling and
    don't even know this Salanson guy, but the report of his death is very strange (again, in light
    of the fact that no drug use is being reported)...............dean
     
  11. David Ryan

    David Ryan Guest

    Herb Dershowitz wrote:
    >
    > French cyclist died of heart failure, doctor says

    "heart failure" = "we have no idea"

    Everybody dies of heart failure. It's a symptom, not a cause. Something causes the heart to fail.
    When they can't figure out what it is, they just put "heart failure" on the certificate because they
    have to put something.
     
  12. "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Herb Dershowitz wrote:
    > >
    > > French cyclist died of heart failure, doctor says
    >
    > "heart failure" = "we have no idea"
    >
    > Everybody dies of heart failure. It's a symptom, not a cause. Something causes the heart to fail.
    > When they can't figure out what it is, they just put "heart failure" on the certificate because
    > they have to put something.

    When I was in the dorms, one of the dudes put a lot of ex-lax in another dude's beer.

    Dude #2 got very sick and had to go to the hospital. The hospital pumped out his stomach and put him
    on an IV overnight.

    Their explanation for his malady? Stomach Virus.

    Basically because they didn't know what it was.
     
  13. Kyle Legate

    Kyle Legate Guest

    J999w wrote:
    >
    > I agree that his heart was probably enlarged, but this in itself doesn't cause it to stop
    > beating. Surely, if he heart was that 'sick', wouldn't the irregular heart beats be detected in
    > his check ups?
    >
    This is what I was wondering earlier.

    There are different types of heart enlargement. There is the enlargement resulting from pulmonary
    insufficiency (highly unlikely in Salanson's case) and there is the enlargement that is common to
    endurance athletes. I'm sure a pathologist can tell the difference.
     
  14. Darren S.

    Darren S. Guest

    "Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > J999w <[email protected]> wrote:
    <snip>
    > Heart enlargement is usually a result of pulmonary insufficiency. He could have died anytime. He
    > just chose to go quietly in his sleep (not screaming like the passengers in his car)

    Pulmonary insufficient a cause of enlarged hearts in young, fit athletes? Where are you getting this
    from? In young athletes death from "heart faliure" is usually due to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

    D.

    > > I don't buy it.
    >
    > death is for free, always has been. last I heard it is readily available for all.
    >
    > > jw milwaukee

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003
     
  15. Mike Murray

    Mike Murray Guest

    This statement couldn't be any more incorrect as heart failure refers to a specific entity and not
    to just the situation where the heart stops, or fails.
    --
    Mike Murray MD

    "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Herb Dershowitz wrote:
    > >
    > > French cyclist died of heart failure, doctor says
    >
    > "heart failure" = "we have no idea"
    >
    > Everybody dies of heart failure. It's a symptom, not a cause. Something causes the heart to fail.
    > When they can't figure out what it is, they just put "heart failure" on the certificate because
    > they have to put something.
     
  16. David Ryan

    David Ryan Guest

    My mother was once diagnosed with "heart failure." By the time the doctors almost killed her with a
    digitalis overdose that put her in the hospital for two weeks, I suggested that it might be related
    to a thyroid condition supposedly cured with an "atomic cocktail" 40 years before. Sure enough it
    had come back and she needed a second one. She recovered from the digitalis, her heart returned to
    normal and she is still living.

    So, Doc, tell me about it.

    Mike Murray wrote:
    >
    > This statement couldn't be any more incorrect as heart failure refers to a specific entity and not
    > to just the situation where the heart stops, or fails.
    > --
    > Mike Murray MD
    >
    > "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Herb Dershowitz wrote:
    > > >
    > > > French cyclist died of heart failure, doctor says
    > >
    > > "heart failure" = "we have no idea"
    > >
    > > Everybody dies of heart failure. It's a symptom, not a cause. Something causes the heart to
    > > fail. When they can't figure out what it is, they just put "heart failure" on the certificate
    > > because they have to put something.
     
  17. Mike Murray

    Mike Murray Guest

    Thyrotoxicosis, the pathologic condition of high thyroid levels, is a uncommon cause of heart
    failure. Most often heart failure is caused by primary heart diseases that decrease the pumping
    capability of the heart. Less commonly, heart failure is caused by increased demand on a heart that
    has more normal pumping function. Thyrotoxicosis is an example of this. Other examples are sepsis,
    fluid overload and some drug overdoses. Separating out the difference between these two things can
    be difficult to do without invasive testing.

    Digitalis was, in the recent past, standard therapy for heart failure. In most cases it has now been
    superceded by better drugs. One reason why the other drugs are better is because digitalis has a
    very narrow therapeutic window the toxic level overlapping into the therapeutic level. Digitalis
    toxicity was common and a major problem with use of the drug.

    The bottom line is that it sounds as though you mom actually did have heart failure which was caused
    by thyrotoxicosis. Lowering the thyroid level by treating her with radioactive iodine removed the
    cause for the heart failure.

    --
    Mike Murray

    "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > My mother was once diagnosed with "heart failure." By the time the doctors almost killed her with
    > a digitalis overdose that put her in the hospital for two weeks, I suggested that it might be
    > related to a thyroid condition supposedly cured with an "atomic cocktail" 40 years before. Sure
    > enough it had come back and she needed a second one. She recovered from the digitalis, her heart
    > returned to normal and she is still living.
    >
    > So, Doc, tell me about it.
    >
    > Mike Murray wrote:
    > >
    > > This statement couldn't be any more incorrect as heart failure refers to
    a
    > > specific entity and not to just the situation where the heart stops, or fails.
    > > --
    > > Mike Murray MD
    > >
    > > "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Herb Dershowitz wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > French cyclist died of heart failure, doctor says
    > > >
    > > > "heart failure" = "we have no idea"
    > > >
    > > > Everybody dies of heart failure. It's a symptom, not a cause. Something causes the heart to
    > > > fail. When they can't figure out what it is, they just put "heart failure" on the certificate
    > > > because they have to put something.
     
  18. There you go, get a freakin' doctor to say that we should all take an aspirin a day.

    I guess when I feel a little sick I should take some cough medicine, when I feel an itch, benedryl,
    when I have an upset stomach I should take some pepto, when I feel sad I should take some prozak.

    Or maybe I will let my body take care of it and treat itself so I don't become dependent on medicine
    for every little thing that ails me. I haven't taken any medicine for over 8 years, and I feel
    better than ever,

    oh well,

    Rope

    "realdean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I also don't buy it, but being in the medical field, and assuming no foul play or illegal use of
    > drugs, here is my view..............Dying in one's sleep from "heat failure" in a person that is
    > not over weight, physically in shape and probably had a sleeping heart rate of 40bpm or less is
    > rare unless a catestrophic event were to occur. This leaves only 2 possibilities. There might have
    > been an electrolyte imbalance that caused an arrythmia or he had a blood clot that spontaneously
    > occurred in a large coronary artery. The later can happen to anyone at any time and that's the
    > reason that a baby aspirin a day is so critical for all adult to take. The former is unlikely
    > unless his diet and fluid intake was redically altered form previous race preparation. Either
    > scenario could probably be ruled out on autopsy. Soemthing is not
    > kosher............................dean
     
  19. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Rope
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > There you go, get a freakin' doctor to say that we should all take an aspirin a day.
    >
    > I guess when I feel a little sick I should take some cough medicine, when I feel an itch,
    > benedryl, when I have an upset stomach I should take some pepto, when I feel sad I should take
    > some prozak.
    >
    > Or maybe I will let my body take care of it and treat itself so I don't become dependent on
    > medicine for every little thing that ails me.

    Yeah, a little aspirin to thin the blood-what could be good about that? Our ancestors didn't need no
    doctors or preventive medicine and they lived to the ripe old age of 57. Sounds good to me.

    -WG
     
  20. Realdean

    Realdean Guest

    warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<100620031526190384%[email protected]>...
    > I know I'm responding to someone with NO KNOWLEDGE about about
    pharmacology but for what its worth hear it goes...........Aspirin DOES NOT THIN THE BLOOD! It DOES
    prevent platelet aggregation, which is a good thing especially if someone is stupid enough to
    needlessly take epo shots. Low dose aspirin (81mg per day)therapy interferes with the bodies
    cycloxygenase system that causes vasoconstriction and platelet aggregation whereas the evidence
    suggests that taking higher doses might in fact negate this benefit. In any event, statistically for
    non-diabetic patients the best 2 things that anyone can do to live a long and healthy life is (1)
    take a baby asdpirin a day and (2) keep your cholesterol as low as possible. Doing these 2 tings
    outways the benefits of taking vitamins, antioxdants, controling weight, exercising , stoping
    smoking and the list goes on.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...