Salsa/Surly: Joined at the hip?

[Ted Bennett]

While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
share the same address, which raises a few questions.

Is this a marketing decision made by another company which
owns both entities? Are there other examples in the bicycle
industry of two companies which are not really two
companies?

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

 

[David Reuteler]

Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
> While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
> share the same address, which raises a few questions.

it means they're both 0wned by QBP (a huge distributor based
in the twin cities, mn)

http://www.qbp.com/

> Is this a marketing decision made by another company which
> owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
> bicycle industry of two companies which are not really two
> companies?
--
david reuteler [email protected]

 

[Tim McNamara]

David Reuteler <[email protected]> writes:

> Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
>> share the same address, which raises a few questions.
>
> it means they're both 0wned by QBP (a huge distributor
> based in the twin cities, mn)
>
> http://www.qbp.com/

Yup, that's about the size of it.

>> Is this a marketing decision made by another company
>> which owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
>> bicycle industry of two companies which are not really
>> two companies?

These were two companies; Salsa was started years ago by
Ross Scheafer (sp?) and friends in California, and then was
bought by QBP. Salsa had a long history of making good
quality stuff. Some of the former Salsa employees formed
Soulcraft after the sale; they make bike frames.

Surly was a company started in the Twin Cities by IIRC
Wakeman Massie and perhaps some other folks (Hurl, maybe?),
also bought by QBP. Those guys were exactly what they looked
like- punk rock street and dirt riders.

QBP has its detractors and its admirers. They're a
restictive pain in the ass for small custom shops to deal
with- if you don't have a main street store front and
employees, they don't wanna know you. If you build superb
gorgeous custom frames in your garage the equivalent of
anything you can get from anywhere else, you ain't buying
stuff from QBP until you have a full-on retail shop. C'est
la vie- it's their loss. On the other hand, they contract
with a framebuilder friend of mine for about a hundred
fillet brazed stems a month, and they pay their bill on
time reliably.

 

[Jeff Wills]

Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
> share the same address, which raises a few questions.
>
> Is this a marketing decision made by another company which
> owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
> bicycle industry of two companies which are not really two
> companies?

David pointed out that both are names owned by Quality
Bicycle Products, as are "Buzzy's", "Dimension", "Problem
Solvers", "Winwood", and "Big Cheese".

Jeff

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

ted-<< While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and
Surly share the same

address, which raises a few questions >><BR><BR>

Both owned by Quality Bike Parts...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

<< Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of two
companies which are not really two companies? >><BR><BR>

Trek-Lemond, Klein, Bontrager, Fisher

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Jeff Wills]

[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> << Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of two
> companies which are not really two companies? >><BR><BR>
>
> Trek-Lemond, Klein, Bontrager, Fisher
>

Back when I started in the business, examples abounded.
Western States Imports (WSI) sold bikes under the Centurion
and Dianmondback brands. West Coast Cycles sold Nishikis and
American Eagles, but these were absorbed into Raleigh USA, I
think. Italvega was a separate brand from Univega although
they were the same company. GT & Dyno are the same company.
And so on...

Jeff

 

[Mark Hickey]

[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote:

><< Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of two
>companies which are not really two companies? >><BR><BR>
>
>Trek-Lemond, Klein, Bontrager, Fisher

Habanero-Microsoft...

;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
the $695 ti frame

 

[David Reuteler]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
> Habanero-Microsoft...

careful what you wish for. they'd rightsize your ass out of
the company pretty quick. these days no compensation,
either. then they'd start dumping the new habanero XM-30
with proprietary microsoft components and all manner of frou
frou tubing shapes.

they'd retain rights to your name, too. missed that part in
the contract didn't ya?

erghhh..

UNIX || 'new career'
--
david reuteler [email protected]

 

[A Muzi]

Ted Bennett wrote:
> While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
> share the same address, which raises a few questions. Is
> this a marketing decision made by another company which
> owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
> bicycle industry of two companies which are not really
> two companies?

Ross Schaeffer, who founded Salsa, retired a while ago. That
name is now used for various imported products and is owned
by a distributor in Minnesota. A Hsing Lung stem is $30, a
"Salsa" stem is $40. Same stem*.

Most distributors have such a "house brand", be it Raleigh's
"Avenir" or Redline's "Inline" or whatever. That same house
imports frames as "Surly". That strategy, relabeling product
for a higher margin than the actual manufacturer's name
would allow, is seen all over, not just in bicycle
equipment.

Take the bulk of bicycles for another good example. The
name on the bike in most cases has no relationship to an
actual factory.

(*I have no special knowledge. Salsa may be made by some
other factory but they look like HL product)
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

 

[Carl Fogel]

Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
> share the same address, which raises a few questions.
>
> Is this a marketing decision made by another company which
> owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
> bicycle industry of two companies which are not really two
> companies?
Dear Ted (if that's who you really are),

Don't tell a soul, but I entertain dark suspicions about
Campagnolo and Shimano.

Of course, I come from a world in which we start to worry
whether Marlowe wrote Shakespeare when we go mad.

On the other hand, judging by history, James Bond would have
been working for Moscow in real life.

Carl Fogel (or so I want you to think)

 

[Roy Zipris]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote :
>
> ><< Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of
> >two companies which are not really two companies?
> >>><BR><BR>
> Habanero-Microsoft...

That explains why Apple (cyclo)computers don't work with
Habaneros and why you can't download your HRM data to your
iMac. --Roy Zipris

 

[Dvt]

A Muzi wrote:

> That same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
> relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
> manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
> just in bicycle equipment.

Do you know if Surly-equivalent frames are available under
another name, but without the relabeling and markup?

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu

 

[Dvt]

Carl Fogel wrote:

> Carl Fogel (or so I want you to think)

Don't worry. We're not fooled.

--
Dave dvt at psu dot edu

 

[Alan Hoyle]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:55:03 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:
> [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote:
>
>><< Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of two
>>companies which are not really two companies? >><BR><BR>
>>
>>Trek-Lemond, Klein, Bontrager, Fisher
>
> Habanero-Microsoft...

So Habanero bike crash all the time and are subject to
numerous security flaws?

--
Alan Hoyle - [email protected] - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

 

[Chalo]

A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:

> Most distributors have such a "house brand", be it
> Raleigh's "Avenir" or Redline's "Inline" or whatever. That
> same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
> relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
> manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
> just in bicycle equipment.

Makes me wonder about J&B's "Pyramid" line, just as cheap as
bottom-shelf items from anywhere else.

I thought Redline was in turn owned by SBS. ?

Chalo Colina

 

[Chalo]

dvt <[email protected]> wrote:

> Do you know if Surly-equivalent frames are available under
> another name, but without the relabeling and markup?

Actually it's more likely that the Taiwanese factory or
factories making Surly frames also make more expensive big-
name frames. Without Surly's signature practical features
like horizontal dropouts and big tire clearance, of course.

Chalo Colina

 

[Tim McNamara]

dvt <[email protected]> writes:

> A Muzi wrote:
>
>> That same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
>> relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
>> manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
>> just in bicycle equipment.
>
> Do you know if Surly-equivalent frames are available under
> another name, but without the relabeling and markup?

Ummm, have you checked the prices? Not so much by way
of markup.

 

[A Muzi]

> A Muzi wrote:
>> That same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
>> relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
>> manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
>> just in bicycle equipment.

dvt wrote:
> Do you know if Surly-equivalent frames are available under
> another name, but without the relabeling and markup?

No idea.

There's Redline's "MonoCog" CrMo 26" single speed frame with
fork and canti mounts, long track ends for $199 as an
example of reality. Welded in Taiwan, standard (nice, not
Waterford) welding and paint.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

 

[A Muzi]

> A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Most distributors have such a "house brand", be it
>>Raleigh's "Avenir" or Redline's "Inline" or whatever. That
>>same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
>>relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
>>manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
>>just in bicycle equipment.

Chalo wrote:
> Makes me wonder about J&B's "Pyramid" line, just as cheap
> as bottom-shelf items from anywhere else. I thought
> Redline was in turn owned by SBS. ?

Sorry, shorthand. Yes Seattle Bike Supply (=SBS) owns the
name Redline also Inline and also Torker, etc.

And IMHO there's nothing expressly wrong with house labels.

Pyramid, Systeme, Inline, Avenir, BikePals or whatever are
all made by the same couple of manufacturers in some cases.
An inner tube from on vendor, Kenda for example, can have a
dozen permutations at various prices. A very basic $4 MTB
tube can be several actual widths and wall thicknesses, it
can be talc coated if requested it can be inflated and
checked after 24 hours ( really I am not making this up) and
it can be rolled with a rubber band or not. Every small
decision varies the price slightly.

Last year we had a problem with one size tube from our
regular supplier. To get a particular feature I wanted, I
had to get it also talc coated and rubber banded , which
ended up 8c higher than otherwise. Only 8c you say? Some
guys earn their salary over such decisions when purchasing
large numbers of tubes. And that's just one item.

Chalo, you should know better than most people that a
chamfered edge here and a polish there ( ten minutes? half
hour? Which grit size?) or a black fastener versus chrome or
stainless can really change manufacturer costs. And someone
is looking at every half-penny, too.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971