Salsa/Surly: Joined at the hip?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Ted Bennett, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. Ted Bennett

    Ted Bennett Guest

    While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
    share the same address, which raises a few questions.

    Is this a marketing decision made by another company which
    owns both entities? Are there other examples in the bicycle
    industry of two companies which are not really two
    companies?

    --
    Ted Bennett Portland OR
     
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  2. Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
    > While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
    > share the same address, which raises a few questions.

    it means they're both 0wned by QBP (a huge distributor based
    in the twin cities, mn)

    http://www.qbp.com/

    > Is this a marketing decision made by another company which
    > owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
    > bicycle industry of two companies which are not really two
    > companies?
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  3. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    David Reuteler <[email protected]> writes:

    > Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
    >> share the same address, which raises a few questions.
    >
    > it means they're both 0wned by QBP (a huge distributor
    > based in the twin cities, mn)
    >
    > http://www.qbp.com/

    Yup, that's about the size of it.

    >> Is this a marketing decision made by another company
    >> which owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
    >> bicycle industry of two companies which are not really
    >> two companies?

    These were two companies; Salsa was started years ago by
    Ross Scheafer (sp?) and friends in California, and then was
    bought by QBP. Salsa had a long history of making good
    quality stuff. Some of the former Salsa employees formed
    Soulcraft after the sale; they make bike frames.

    Surly was a company started in the Twin Cities by IIRC
    Wakeman Massie and perhaps some other folks (Hurl, maybe?),
    also bought by QBP. Those guys were exactly what they looked
    like- punk rock street and dirt riders.

    QBP has its detractors and its admirers. They're a
    restictive pain in the ass for small custom shops to deal
    with- if you don't have a main street store front and
    employees, they don't wanna know you. If you build superb
    gorgeous custom frames in your garage the equivalent of
    anything you can get from anywhere else, you ain't buying
    stuff from QBP until you have a full-on retail shop. C'est
    la vie- it's their loss. On the other hand, they contract
    with a framebuilder friend of mine for about a hundred
    fillet brazed stems a month, and they pay their bill on
    time reliably.
     
  4. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<tedbennett-88B3B2.1530351[email protected]>...
    > While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
    > share the same address, which raises a few questions.
    >
    > Is this a marketing decision made by another company which
    > owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
    > bicycle industry of two companies which are not really two
    > companies?

    David pointed out that both are names owned by Quality
    Bicycle Products, as are "Buzzy's", "Dimension", "Problem
    Solvers", "Winwood", and "Big Cheese".

    Jeff
     
  5. ted-<< While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and
    Surly share the same

    address, which raises a few questions >><BR><BR>

    Both owned by Quality Bike Parts...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
    costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. << Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of two
    companies which are not really two companies? >><BR><BR>

    Trek-Lemond, Klein, Bontrager, Fisher

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
    costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  7. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > << Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of two
    > companies which are not really two companies? >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Trek-Lemond, Klein, Bontrager, Fisher
    >

    Back when I started in the business, examples abounded.
    Western States Imports (WSI) sold bikes under the Centurion
    and Dianmondback brands. West Coast Cycles sold Nishikis and
    American Eagles, but these were absorbed into Raleigh USA, I
    think. Italvega was a separate brand from Univega although
    they were the same company. GT & Dyno are the same company.
    And so on...

    Jeff
     
  8. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote:

    ><< Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of two
    >companies which are not really two companies? >><BR><BR>
    >
    >Trek-Lemond, Klein, Bontrager, Fisher

    Habanero-Microsoft...

    ;-)

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
    the $695 ti frame
     
  9. Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Habanero-Microsoft...

    careful what you wish for. they'd rightsize your ass out of
    the company pretty quick. these days no compensation,
    either. then they'd start dumping the new habanero XM-30
    with proprietary microsoft components and all manner of frou
    frou tubing shapes.

    they'd retain rights to your name, too. missed that part in
    the contract didn't ya?

    erghhh..

    UNIX || 'new career'
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  10. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    Ted Bennett wrote:
    > While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
    > share the same address, which raises a few questions. Is
    > this a marketing decision made by another company which
    > owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
    > bicycle industry of two companies which are not really
    > two companies?

    Ross Schaeffer, who founded Salsa, retired a while ago. That
    name is now used for various imported products and is owned
    by a distributor in Minnesota. A Hsing Lung stem is $30, a
    "Salsa" stem is $40. Same stem*.

    Most distributors have such a "house brand", be it Raleigh's
    "Avenir" or Redline's "Inline" or whatever. That same house
    imports frames as "Surly". That strategy, relabeling product
    for a higher margin than the actual manufacturer's name
    would allow, is seen all over, not just in bicycle
    equipment.

    Take the bulk of bicycles for another good example. The
    name on the bike in most cases has no relationship to an
    actual factory.

    (*I have no special knowledge. Salsa may be made by some
    other factory but they look like HL product)
    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
    April, 1971
     
  11. Carl Fogel

    Carl Fogel Guest

    Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > While netting around today I noticed that Salsa and Surly
    > share the same address, which raises a few questions.
    >
    > Is this a marketing decision made by another company which
    > owns both entities? Are there other examples in the
    > bicycle industry of two companies which are not really two
    > companies?
    Dear Ted (if that's who you really are),

    Don't tell a soul, but I entertain dark suspicions about
    Campagnolo and Shimano.

    Of course, I come from a world in which we start to worry
    whether Marlowe wrote Shakespeare when we go mad.

    On the other hand, judging by history, James Bond would have
    been working for Moscow in real life.

    Carl Fogel (or so I want you to think)
     
  12. Roy Zipris

    Roy Zipris Guest

    Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote :
    >
    > ><< Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of
    > >two companies which are not really two companies?
    > >>><BR><BR>
    > Habanero-Microsoft...

    That explains why Apple (cyclo)computers don't work with
    Habaneros and why you can't download your HRM data to your
    iMac. --Roy Zipris
     
  13. Dvt

    Dvt Guest

    A Muzi wrote:

    > That same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
    > relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
    > manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
    > just in bicycle equipment.

    Do you know if Surly-equivalent frames are available under
    another name, but without the relabeling and markup?

    --
    Dave dvt at psu dot edu
     
  14. Dvt

    Dvt Guest

    Carl Fogel wrote:

    > Carl Fogel (or so I want you to think)

    Don't worry. We're not fooled.

    --
    Dave dvt at psu dot edu
     
  15. Alan Hoyle

    Alan Hoyle Guest

    On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:55:03 -0700, Mark Hickey wrote:
    > [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote:
    >
    >><< Are there other examples in the bicycle industry of two
    >>companies which are not really two companies? >><BR><BR>
    >>
    >>Trek-Lemond, Klein, Bontrager, Fisher
    >
    > Habanero-Microsoft...

    So Habanero bike crash all the time and are subject to
    numerous security flaws?

    --
    Alan Hoyle - [email protected] - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
    "I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
    Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
     
  16. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Most distributors have such a "house brand", be it
    > Raleigh's "Avenir" or Redline's "Inline" or whatever. That
    > same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
    > relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
    > manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
    > just in bicycle equipment.

    Makes me wonder about J&B's "Pyramid" line, just as cheap as
    bottom-shelf items from anywhere else.

    I thought Redline was in turn owned by SBS. ?

    Chalo Colina
     
  17. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    dvt <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Do you know if Surly-equivalent frames are available under
    > another name, but without the relabeling and markup?

    Actually it's more likely that the Taiwanese factory or
    factories making Surly frames also make more expensive big-
    name frames. Without Surly's signature practical features
    like horizontal dropouts and big tire clearance, of course.

    Chalo Colina
     
  18. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    dvt <[email protected]> writes:

    > A Muzi wrote:
    >
    >> That same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
    >> relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
    >> manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
    >> just in bicycle equipment.
    >
    > Do you know if Surly-equivalent frames are available under
    > another name, but without the relabeling and markup?

    Ummm, have you checked the prices? Not so much by way
    of markup.
     
  19. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > A Muzi wrote:
    >> That same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
    >> relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
    >> manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
    >> just in bicycle equipment.

    dvt wrote:
    > Do you know if Surly-equivalent frames are available under
    > another name, but without the relabeling and markup?

    No idea.

    There's Redline's "MonoCog" CrMo 26" single speed frame with
    fork and canti mounts, long track ends for $199 as an
    example of reality. Welded in Taiwan, standard (nice, not
    Waterford) welding and paint.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
    April, 1971
     
  20. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Most distributors have such a "house brand", be it
    >>Raleigh's "Avenir" or Redline's "Inline" or whatever. That
    >>same house imports frames as "Surly". That strategy,
    >>relabeling product for a higher margin than the actual
    >>manufacturer's name would allow, is seen all over, not
    >>just in bicycle equipment.

    Chalo wrote:
    > Makes me wonder about J&B's "Pyramid" line, just as cheap
    > as bottom-shelf items from anywhere else. I thought
    > Redline was in turn owned by SBS. ?

    Sorry, shorthand. Yes Seattle Bike Supply (=SBS) owns the
    name Redline also Inline and also Torker, etc.

    And IMHO there's nothing expressly wrong with house labels.

    Pyramid, Systeme, Inline, Avenir, BikePals or whatever are
    all made by the same couple of manufacturers in some cases.
    An inner tube from on vendor, Kenda for example, can have a
    dozen permutations at various prices. A very basic $4 MTB
    tube can be several actual widths and wall thicknesses, it
    can be talc coated if requested it can be inflated and
    checked after 24 hours ( really I am not making this up) and
    it can be rolled with a rubber band or not. Every small
    decision varies the price slightly.

    Last year we had a problem with one size tube from our
    regular supplier. To get a particular feature I wanted, I
    had to get it also talc coated and rubber banded , which
    ended up 8c higher than otherwise. Only 8c you say? Some
    guys earn their salary over such decisions when purchasing
    large numbers of tubes. And that's just one item.

    Chalo, you should know better than most people that a
    chamfered edge here and a polish there ( ten minutes? half
    hour? Which grit size?) or a black fastener versus chrome or
    stainless can really change manufacturer costs. And someone
    is looking at every half-penny, too.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
    April, 1971
     
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