Salvageable wheel/rim???

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Zilla, Apr 10, 2004.

  1. Zilla

    Zilla Guest

    I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only got
    a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager Race Lite
    700c) twisted on me. I slammed the "boinged" part against
    the ground to untwist it as much as I can, but this only
    fixed it so far and it's still twisted enough that it won't
    rotate now since the rear caliper brakes get in the way. I'd
    say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course the
    spokes are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging? It's
    basically a new wheel on a new bike, which is 4 mos. old
    with only around 200 mi. on it. (I have not ridden it much
    because of the weather.) Can I still true the wheel?

    I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the wheel
    building post I had earlier.)

    --
    - Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)
     
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  2. David

    David Guest

    its toast, tension will be extremely uneven. rebuild with
    new rim - I have the same problem. I crashed in a cat 5
    race, frickin squireliness of riders. Ruined my velomax
    orion comp front and rear rims ($200 for rebuild)
    expensive for a college student. YIKES! (same out of true
    as your rim about
    1/2 - 1 inch) bike shop tried for an hour, and said no way,
    they got the front true but tension was way wack.

    David

    "Zilla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only
    > got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager
    > Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed the "boinged"
    > part against the ground to untwist it as much as I can,
    > but this only fixed it so far and it's still twisted
    > enough that it won't rotate now since the rear caliper
    > brakes get in the way. I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch
    > out of true. Of course the spokes are all lose now. Is
    > this rim worth salvaging? It's basically a new wheel on a
    > new bike, which is 4 mos. old with only around 200 mi. on
    > it. (I have not ridden it much because of the weather.)
    > Can I still true the wheel?
    >
    > I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the wheel
    > building post I had earlier.)
    >
    > --
    > - Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)
     
  3. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Zilla who? writes:

    > I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only
    > got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager
    > Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed the "boinged"
    > part against the ground to untwist it as much as I can,
    > but this only fixed it so far and it's still twisted
    > enough that it won't rotate now since the rear caliper
    > brakes get in the way.

    Don't do that!!!

    This is an old saw that won't go away as people dent and
    damage rims of wheels that have a wow in them. It might look
    macho but it has no mechanical value. A warped wheel usually
    has some loose spokes and others that are tighter than they
    should be. Straightening that without loosening all spokes
    tries to retension the wheel while bending the rim beyond
    yield. The resulting combined stresses usually cause
    irrecoverable damage. Wheels are easily straightened with
    controlled manual pressure AFTER spokes have been loosened
    about a turn each. The procedure is explained in "the
    Bicycle Wheel", with diagram, in detail better than I can
    repeat it here.

    http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html
    http://tinyurl.com/2jnuv

    > I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course
    > the spokes are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging?
    > It's basically a new wheel on a new bike, which is 4 mos.
    > old with only around 200
    > mi. on it. (I have not ridden it much because of the
    > weather.) Can I still true the wheel?

    I didn't see the wheel so I can't say, but it should be
    recoverable to nearly new condition with a bit of skill.

    > I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the wheel
    > building post I had earlier.)

    That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel and
    get good at
    it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so why not break that
    umbilical chord to the shop and fix your own wheels.

    By the way, people who insist on spoke wrenches with more
    than a closely fitting parallel slot are people who don;'t
    lubricate spoke nipples. Using a parallel jaw, easy to
    engage from the side, VAR 13 "butterfly" spoke wrench,
    spokes can be effortlessly tightened to failure with no
    rounding of nipple flats. Get one!

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  4. Eldred

    Eldred Guest

    On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 05:43:43 GMT, [email protected]
    wrote:

    [snip much that is useful]
    >
    >That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel and
    >get good at
    >it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so why not break
    > that umbilical chord to the shop and fix your own
    > wheels.
    >

    Are you plucking several spokes at once to produce
    this chord?

    How come you let your spokes get so badly out of whack that
    they produce different notes?

    E.
     
  5. > I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only
    > got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager
    > Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed the "boinged"
    > part against the ground to untwist it as much as I can,
    > but this only fixed it so far and it's still twisted
    > enough that it won't rotate now since the rear caliper
    > brakes get in the way.

    In general, the best way to straighten a rim that's actually
    bent is to apply a force similar to what bent it in the
    opposite direction. Unless your wheel got bent by being
    slammed against the ground, what you've done has more likely
    put even more bends into it.

    The best way to fix a bent rim is to loosen the spokes a bit
    and then attempt to bend it back. This works best on rims
    with an "S" bend (a curve, rather than a sharp bend). What I
    do is this- with the rim in a floor-mounted truing stand (or
    in a bike upside-down, but it's tough to get into a good
    position for the next part), I position the rim so that the
    bend is towards me and, holding the rim with my hands at
    approximately the 10 & 2 o'clock positions, push the bend
    (positioned at 10 o'clock) away from me, using my foot.
    Depending upon the severity of the bend, you may have to
    move your hands a bit further down the rim. This is
    something best practiced on wheels that are already of no
    value to you, since the best way to learn how much pressure
    you need to apply is by applying too much.

    What you don't want to do is try and true a badly bent rim
    using spoke tension alone. The result will be extremely
    uneven spoke tension, as a small number of spokes work hard
    to force a rim in a direction it really doesn't want to go.
    Such wheels won't stay true very long.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "Zilla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only
    > got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager
    > Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed the "boinged"
    > part against the ground to untwist it as much as I can,
    > but this only fixed it so far and it's still twisted
    > enough that it won't rotate now since the rear caliper
    > brakes get in the way. I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch
    > out of true. Of course the spokes are all lose now. Is
    > this rim worth salvaging? It's basically a new wheel on a
    > new bike, which is 4 mos. old with only around 200 mi. on
    > it. (I have not ridden it much because of the weather.)
    > Can I still true the wheel?
    >
    > I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the wheel
    > building post I had earlier.)
    >
    > --
    > - Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)
     
  6. zilla-<< I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of
    course the spokes are all lose now. Is this rim worth
    salvaging? >><BR><BR>

    No. The rim is now bent and altho you may be able to get it
    pretty true by first banging it on the ground, the tension
    will be wildly erratic and it won't stay true. Go to a Trek
    dealer and hopefully they haven't gotten rid of all the
    people that can build wheels and have them rebuild it with
    a new rim.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
    costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  7. Zilla

    Zilla Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Zilla who? writes:
    >
    >> I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only
    >> got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager
    >> Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed the "boinged"
    >> part against the ground to untwist it as much as I can,
    >> but this only fixed it so far and it's still twisted
    >> enough that it won't rotate now since the rear caliper
    >> brakes get in the way.
    >
    > Don't do that!!!
    >
    > This is an old saw that won't go away as people dent and
    > damage rims of wheels that have a wow in them. It might
    > look macho but it has no mechanical value. A warped wheel
    > usually has some loose spokes and others that are tighter
    > than they should be. Straightening that without loosening
    > all spokes tries to retension the wheel while bending the
    > rim beyond yield. The resulting combined stresses usually
    > cause irrecoverable damage. Wheels are easily straightened
    > with controlled manual pressure AFTER spokes have been
    > loosened about a turn each. The procedure is explained in
    > "the Bicycle Wheel", with diagram, in detail better than I
    > can repeat it here.
    >
    > http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html
    > http://tinyurl.com/2jnuv
    >
    >> I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course
    >> the spokes are all lose now. Is this rim worth salvaging?
    >> It's basically a new wheel on a new bike, which is 4 mos.
    >> old with only around 200
    >> mi. on it. (I have not ridden it much because of the
    >> weather.) Can I still true the wheel?
    >
    > I didn't see the wheel so I can't say, but it should be
    > recoverable to nearly new condition with a bit of skill.
    >
    >> I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the
    >> wheel building post I had earlier.)
    >
    > That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel and
    > get good at
    > it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so why not break
    > that umbilical chord to the shop and fix your own
    > wheels.
    >
    > By the way, people who insist on spoke wrenches with more
    > than a closely fitting parallel slot are people who don;'t
    > lubricate spoke nipples. Using a parallel jaw, easy to
    > engage from the side, VAR 13 "butterfly" spoke wrench,
    > spokes can be effortlessly tightened to failure with no
    > rounding of nipple flats. Get one!
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected]

    Thanks. I'll post a link of a pic of the wheel and have you
    folks judge it...

    --
    - Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)
     
  8. Zilla

    Zilla Guest

    Zilla <[email protected]> wrote:
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >> Zilla who? writes:
    >>
    >>> I crashed my road bike the other day and luckily I only
    >>> got a minor foot sprain. But the rear wheel (Bontrager
    >>> Race Lite 700c) twisted on me. I slammed the "boinged"
    >>> part against the ground to untwist it as much as I can,
    >>> but this only fixed it so far and it's still twisted
    >>> enough that it won't rotate now since the rear caliper
    >>> brakes get in the way.
    >>
    >> Don't do that!!!
    >>
    >> This is an old saw that won't go away as people dent and
    >> damage rims of wheels that have a wow in them. It might
    >> look macho but it has no mechanical value. A warped wheel
    >> usually has some loose spokes and others that are tighter
    >> than they should be. Straightening that without loosening
    >> all spokes tries to retension the wheel while bending the
    >> rim beyond yield. The resulting combined stresses usually
    >> cause irrecoverable damage. Wheels are easily
    >> straightened with controlled manual pressure AFTER spokes
    >> have been loosened about a turn each. The procedure is
    >> explained in "the Bicycle Wheel", with diagram, in detail
    >> better than I can repeat it here.
    >>
    >> http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html
    >> http://tinyurl.com/2jnuv
    >>
    >>> I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course
    >>> the spokes are all lose now. Is this rim worth
    >>> salvaging? It's basically a new wheel on a new bike,
    >>> which is 4 mos. old with only around 200
    >>> mi. on it. (I have not ridden it much because of the
    >>> weather.) Can I still true the wheel?
    >>
    >> I didn't see the wheel so I can't say, but it should be
    >> recoverable to nearly new condition with a bit of skill.
    >>
    >>> I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the
    >>> wheel building post I had earlier.)
    >>
    >> That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel
    >> and get good at it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so
    >> why not break that umbilical chord to the shop and fix
    >> your own wheels.
    >>
    >> By the way, people who insist on spoke wrenches with more
    >> than a closely fitting parallel slot are people who
    >> don;'t lubricate spoke nipples. Using a parallel jaw,
    >> easy to engage from the side, VAR 13 "butterfly" spoke
    >> wrench, spokes can be effortlessly tightened to failure
    >> with no rounding of nipple flats. Get one!
    >>
    >> Jobst Brandt [email protected]
    >
    > Thanks. I'll post a link of a pic of the wheel and have
    > you folks judge it...
    >
    > --
    > - Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)

    Thanks to all...

    Here are some pics of the wheel I tried to take a reliable
    picture to neither emphasize nor de-emphasize the warp.

    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel1.jpg
    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel2.jpg
    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel3.jpg
    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel4.jpg
    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel5.jpg

    --
    - Zilla Cary, NC (Remove XSPAM)
     
  9. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Zilla who? writes:

    >>> I didn't see the wheel so I can't say, but it should be
    >>> recoverable to nearly new condition with a bit of skill.

    >>>> I've subsequently ordered a new rim, BTW (hence, the
    >>>> wheel building post I had earlier.)

    >>> That's a good backup to have anyway but fix that wheel
    >>> and get good at it. I'm sure you patch your own tires so
    >>> why not break that umbilical chord to the shop and fix
    >>> your own wheels.

    >>> By the way, people who insist on spoke wrenches with
    >>> more than a closely fitting parallel slot are people who
    >>> don;'t lubricate spoke nipples. Using a parallel jaw,
    >>> easy to engage from the side, VAR 13 "butterfly" spoke
    >>> wrench, spokes can be effortlessly tightened to failure
    >>> with no rounding of nipple flats. Get one!

    >> Thanks. I'll post a link of a picture of the wheel and
    >> have you folks judge it...

    > Thanks to all...

    > Here are some pictures of the wheel I tried to take a
    > reliable picture to neither emphasize nor de-emphasize
    > the warp.

    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel1.jpg
    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel2.jpg
    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel3.jpg
    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel4.jpg
    http://trifs.dyndns.org/wheel5.jpg

    From what is visible in these pictures, that is an eminently
    repairable wheel. I assume there are no kinks (short
    ripples) in the "saddle" formed by the rim. Make sure the
    spokes are about a turn looser than they were in last use
    before straightening the wheel.

    As recently explained, straightening is done by laying the
    wheel on the floor, placing the most laterally out of line
    place (marked by felt tip pen) down, while pressing on the
    rim 45 degrees either side of this point with the hands (or
    with knees if it is a strong rim). Lightweight track rims
    deform easily by hand.

    There should be a slight over-center feel to deflecting the
    rim while "thrusting" on it. Repeatedly check alignment as
    the amount of overshoot is increased, then move to the next
    worst place to repeat that process until alignment looks
    close (+-5mm) to true. From this point, spoke tightening can
    true the wheel. Where individual spokes on the same side
    become clearly tighter than their neighbors, repeat the
    bending routine carefully, with the tight spoke zone up, to
    relieve this disparity. Loosening these spokes should be
    possible thereafter to bring things into true.

    Never bang the wheel on the ground as in the much told macho
    tale of old. It can only damager the rim.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  10. Luke

    Luke Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > mechanical value. A warped wheel usually has some loose
    > spokes and others that are tighter than they should be.
    > Straightening that without loosening all spokes tries to
    > retension the wheel while bending the rim beyond yield.
    > The resulting combined stresses usually cause
    > irrecoverable damage. Wheels are easily straightened with
    > controlled manual pressure AFTER spokes have been loosened
    > about a turn each. The procedure is explained in "the
    > Bicycle Wheel", with diagram, in detail better than I can
    > repeat it here.
    >
    > http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html
    > http://tinyurl.com/2jnuv
    >
    > > I'd say the rim is 1/2 to 1 inch out of true. Of course
    > > the spokes are all lose now. Is this rim worth
    > > salvaging? It's basically a new wheel on a new bike,
    > > which is 4 mos. old with only around 200
    > > mi. on it. (I have not ridden it much because of the
    > > weather.) Can I still true the wheel?
    >
    > I didn't see the wheel so I can't say, but it should be
    > recoverable to nearly new condition with a bit of skill.

    <snip>

    Apologies if redundantly posted (ISP difficulties)

    I've a wheel that I'm considering resurrecting - if for no
    reason than to profit from a lesson in advanced circular
    rehabilitation.

    Please refer to
    <http://home.ca.inter.net/~luca/Collision/collision.html>
    for details.

    Regardless of the fate of the rim, I'll definitely recover
    the old Phil hub. This concern is strictly academic: if I
    were to acquire a rim with an identical ERD of the mauled
    Wolber (enabling an identical lacing pattern), would it be
    advisable to press the spokes into service once more?

    Luke
     
  11. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Luke who? writes:

    > I've a wheel that I'm considering resurrecting - if for no
    > reason than to profit from a lesson in advanced circular
    > rehabilitation.

    http://home.ca.inter.net/~luca/Collision/collision.html

    > Regardless of the fate of the rim, I'll definitely recover
    > the old Phil hub. This concern is strictly academic: if I
    > were to acquire a rim with an identical ERD of the mauled
    > Wolber (enabling an identical lacing pattern), would it be
    > advisable to press the spokes into service once more?

    From the pictures, it seems the rim has a smooth curve
    saddle shape that can be corrected. This is a good one on
    which to practice because the solid section rim is not a
    great value to worry about throwing away but it is a good
    work piece. Remember to back off the spokes before
    bending the rim.

    Of course, always reuse spokes if they don't have a kink (a
    bend that does not straighten when tensioned) but leave them
    in place and transfer them one at a time to a new rim.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  12. Luke

    Luke Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Luke who? writes:
    >
    > > I've a wheel that I'm considering resurrecting - if for
    > > no reason than to profit from a lesson in advanced
    > > circular rehabilitation.
    >
    > http://home.ca.inter.net/~luca/Collision/collision.html
    >
    > > Regardless of the fate of the rim, I'll definitely
    > > recover the old Phil hub. This concern is strictly
    > > academic: if I were to acquire a rim with an identical
    > > ERD of the mauled Wolber (enabling an identical lacing
    > > pattern), would it be advisable to press the spokes into
    > > service once more?
    >
    > From the pictures, it seems the rim has a smooth curve
    > saddle shape that can be corrected.

    Yest that's right. The rim "collapsed" in a smooth potato
    chip or saddle shape. There is a slight misalignment of the
    sidewalls at the rim's junction (180 degrees from stem
    hole), but it's nothing that a large adjustable wrench can't
    persuade back into line.

    > This is a good one on which to practice because the solid
    > section rim is not a great value to worry about throwing
    > away but it is a good work piece. Remember to back off the
    > spokes before bending the rim.
    >
    > Of course, always reuse spokes if they don't have a kink
    > (a bend that does not straighten when tensioned) but
    > leave them in place and transfer them one at a time to a
    > new rim.

    Will do. Thanks
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  13. <[email protected]> wrote:
    >By the way, people who insist on spoke wrenches with more
    >than a closely fitting parallel slot are people who don;'t
    >lubricate spoke nipples.

    Or people whose friends once bought wheels where the spoke
    nipples were not lubricated.

    I've done ten times as much wheel work for friends and
    family as I have for myself after learning how...
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]>
    Distortion Field!
     
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