Sandbagging at HCC crits

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Bleve, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    HCC ran their first crit for 2006/2007 summer, it was good to see a
    few familiar faces, and generally the racing was good, apart from the
    usual first time out for the summertime riders jitters and crashes and
    a couple of A graders with heads buried somewhere dark who wanted to
    shave the ambulance when it was on the course.

    *but*

    D grade was another story. A very small number of riders who were
    obviously too strong broke D grade up in the first 5 minutes or so,
    ruining the race for the rest of D grade.

    One in particular, a certain Ben MacNee from Brunswick CC, who won D
    grade last night, got 5th in B grade at Glenvale 3 weeks ago :
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/AUS/2006/oct06/oct30cccc

    Ben MacNee has, in the past 4 weeks, won at Glenvale : D grade, C
    grade, and placed 5th in B grade. This is not the results that would
    suggest it right that he enter D grade at an HCC crit.

    In the past at Glenvale we've removed riders mid-race who were
    obviously mis-graded and blowing the lower grade bunches to pieces,
    hopefully HCC will consider the same course of action for this season.
    It's normal to have a bit of sorting out of grades early on in the
    season, but what happened yesterday evening was just plain wrong. This
    is not a reflection on the grading process (although it's been broken
    for years) but rather on the integrity and honour of the people who
    nominate their grade, despite knowing full well that it's the wrong
    grade for them.
     
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  2. Bean Long

    Bean Long Guest

    Bleve wrote:

    > D grade was another story. A very small number of riders who were
    > obviously too strong broke D grade up in the first 5 minutes or so,
    > ruining the race for the rest of D grade.


    I think this is another factor that killed me last night. I rode home
    with a guy who raced in D as well... he sat on the wheel of the eventual
    winner who had apparently been in B last year. He took the race out at
    a fierce pace and I think I got burnt too early.

    --
    Bean

    "I've got a bike
    You can ride it if you like
    It's got a basket
    A bell that rings
    And things to make it look good
    I'd give it to you if I could
    But I borrowed it" Pink Floyd

    Remove "yourfinger" before replying
     
  3. Shabby

    Shabby New Member

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    Next time make sure his name is included in the title of the thread....

    Surely CSV would be interested to hear about this.... anyone placing in B grade at Glenvale knows what grade they should be racing in.
     
  4. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    Bean Long wrote:
    > Bleve wrote:
    >
    > > D grade was another story. A very small number of riders who were
    > > obviously too strong broke D grade up in the first 5 minutes or so,
    > > ruining the race for the rest of D grade.

    >
    > I think this is another factor that killed me last night. I rode home
    > with a guy who raced in D as well... he sat on the wheel of the eventual
    > winner who had apparently been in B last year. He took the race out at
    > a fierce pace and I think I got burnt too early.


    If you're sure of this, name & shame them. And also, make an issue of
    it to the race entry people. At Glenvale and Sandown, Lorraine
    Collings has the following policy :

    Gradings
    All riders will start the new season racing in the grade they were
    racing at the end of the 05/06 season, or higher. Riders who believe
    they no longer have the ability to race at that level must notify
    CCCC's Chief Handicapper, Lorraine Collings, in writing prior to racing
    with the reasons behind their request

    This generally works pretty well, when the h'capper knows the riders
    anyway.
     
  5. Unregistered

    Unregistered New Member

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    Don't hold back Carl, tell us what you really thought :)

    At least this helps explain why D-grade ran at pretty much the same speed as C (36kph avg) and why it felt so 'kn hard ....

    Do you happen to know how many partners in crime Mr MacNee dragged with him to the finish? - it was hard to tell from the group behind, what with being busy chewing on the bars an'all
     
  6. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    Unregistered wrote:
    > Bleve Wrote:
    > > HCC ran their first crit for 2006/2007 summer, ...

    >
    > Don't hold back Carl, tell us what you really thought :)
    >
    > At least this helps explain why D-grade ran at pretty much the same
    > speed as C (36kph avg) and why it felt so 'kn hard ....


    It was way too fast for D grade, yes.

    > Do you happen to know how many partners in crime Mr MacNee dragged with
    > him to the finish? - it was hard to tell from the group behind, what
    > with being busy chewing on the bars an'all


    7 in that break for most of it before it blew up again in the last
    couple of laps. I'm sorry we didn't do a better job of preventing it,
    it ruined your race. Unfortunately, as it stands at the moment there
    is no consistent grading system in place and this will always happen as
    the gradings are generally done in good faith. It's complicated by
    MacNee being a junior and the race officials not knowing his (or anyone
    else's really....) history.
     
  7. Bean Long

    Bean Long Guest

    Bleve wrote:

    > If you're sure of this, name & shame them. And also, make an issue of
    > it to the race entry people. At Glenvale and Sandown, Lorraine


    I was speaking to the race organiser this morning and she said she knew
    "exactly who the guy was AND which grade he was racing in next week" :)

    --
    Bean

    "I've got a bike
    You can ride it if you like
    It's got a basket
    A bell that rings
    And things to make it look good
    I'd give it to you if I could
    But I borrowed it" Pink Floyd

    Remove "yourfinger" before replying
     
  8. Unregistered

    Unregistered New Member

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    ummm... that might make me a partner in crime I think - not sure, it all got pretty confused after the fall at the hairpin - but in defence m'lud it was my first HCC crit and I was just doing whatever I could to hang on

    Thanks anyway for explaining wtf was going on and bringing it to public attention. It's one thing someone suspecting they might be a bit strong for the grade they've entered but not really knowing, it's completely another if they've already won in a higher grade this season.

    Perhaps the guy should be asked to return his prizemoney AND forced to start in A Grade next week to give him a taste of his own medicine
     
  9. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    Unregistered wrote:

    [chomp]

    > Thanks anyway for explaining wtf was going on and bringing it to public
    > attention. It's one thing someone _suspecting_ they might be a bit
    > strong for the grade they've entered but not really knowing, it's
    > completely another if they've already *won* in a higher grade this
    > season.


    Yes.

    > Perhaps the guy should be asked to return his prizemoney AND forced to
    > start in A Grade next week to give him a taste of his own medicine


    The former I have already suggested to the organisers, and as a bare
    minimum I'd think that was fair, but personally, I'd like to see him
    suspended from racing for a month or so. It's not my decision, that's
    just an opinion. I'm just there as a safety marshal more than anything
    else, mainly to try and reduce the risk of inter-grade incidents and to
    try and give a few errant D graders some tips in terms of race manners
    etc to make it safer for everyone.
     
  10. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Bleve wrote:
    >
    > Unregistered wrote:
    >
    > [chomp]
    >
    > > Thanks anyway for explaining wtf was going on and bringing it to public
    > > attention. It's one thing someone _suspecting_ they might be a bit
    > > strong for the grade they've entered but not really knowing, it's
    > > completely another if they've already *won* in a higher grade this
    > > season.

    >
    > Yes.


    Agreed. But even so, if I _suspected_ before the race that I
    might be a bit strong for the grade I've entered, I'd try to
    change. And if I didn't realise until the race was already
    underway, I'd be too damn embarrassed to head off the front,
    blowing the field apart, etc. I'd sit near the front of the
    bunch, do plenty of turns, join a breakaway but not try to
    start one myself, etc.

    > > Perhaps the guy should be asked to return his prizemoney AND forced to
    > > start in A Grade next week to give him a taste of his own medicine

    >
    > The former I have already suggested to the organisers, and as a bare
    > minimum I'd think that was fair, but personally, I'd like to see him
    > suspended from racing for a month or so. It's not my decision, that's
    > just an opinion. I'm just there as a safety marshal more than anything
    > else, mainly to try and reduce the risk of inter-grade incidents and to
    > try and give a few errant D graders some tips in terms of race manners
    > etc to make it safer for everyone.


    I hope they take your opinion seriously - it'd serve as a
    good deterrant for others.

    Tam
     
  11. Wilchemy

    Wilchemy Well-Known Member

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    I note that in the handicappers notes on results section of HCC website that said rider has been bumped to B grade for future races.
     
  12. Unregistered

    Unregistered New Member

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    And can I sincerely thank you on behalf of all the participants for doing just that - fantastic work Carl!
     
  13. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    Tamyka Bell wrote:

    > I hope they take your opinion seriously - it'd serve as a
    > good deterrant for others.


    I doubt that it would, but it might serve as a deterrent for him.
     
  14. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    Unregistered wrote:
    > Bleve Wrote:
    > > [chomp] I'm just there as a safety marshal more than anything
    > > else, mainly to try and reduce the risk of inter-grade incidents and
    > > to
    > > try and give a few errant D graders some tips in terms of race manners
    > > etc to make it safer for everyone.

    >
    > And can I sincerely thank you on behalf of all the participants for
    > doing just that - fantastic work Carl!


    Thankyou, but remember that my job is an easy one, it's the people
    doing the entries, organising all the permits etc that have the hard
    job to do. Be sure to thank them as they make a much bigger
    contribution than I do.
     
  15. Bleve

    Bleve Guest

    Bean Long wrote:
    > Bleve wrote:
    >
    > > If you're sure of this, name & shame them. And also, make an issue of
    > > it to the race entry people. At Glenvale and Sandown, Lorraine

    >
    > I was speaking to the race organiser this morning and she said she knew
    > "exactly who the guy was AND which grade he was racing in next week" :)


    That's a good result.
     
  16. Paulie-AU

    Paulie-AU New Member

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    At the Balmoral Crits (Bris) we have had a junior insistent on Blowing D Grade to pieces at the beginning and again about 3 laps from the finish. For the rest of the race he hides down the back. It would be great if they moved him on.

    Takes a bit of fun out of it. :mad:
     
  17. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Paulie-AU wrote:
    >
    > At the Balmoral Crits (Bris) we have had a junior insistent on Blowing D
    > Grade to pieces at the beginning and again about 3 laps from the finish.
    > For the rest of the race he hides down the back. It would be great if
    > they moved him on.
    >
    > Takes a bit of fun out of it. :mad:
    >
    > --
    > Paulie-AU


    It's annoying at the finish, but it could be fun at the
    start - we really should talk more in D Grade. When he
    takes off at the start, we point him out to the other D
    graders. Let him solo breakaway, or with one or two others.
    Let him fatigue. Then pick up the bunch pace high enough
    that we blow past him faster than he can recover to catch
    on. Work hard as a bunch, lap him. Goodbye. Should work
    really nicely on the weekend of Southbank Crits, with low
    race numbers.

    T
     
  18. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Paulie-AU wrote:
    >
    > At the Balmoral Crits (Bris) we have had a junior insistent on Blowing D
    > Grade to pieces at the beginning and again about 3 laps from the finish.
    > For the rest of the race he hides down the back. It would be great if
    > they moved him on.
    >
    > Takes a bit of fun out of it. :mad:
    >
    > --
    > Paulie-AU


    Oh and by the way, Lotte really needs that new bike...

    T
     
  19. Paulie-AU

    Paulie-AU New Member

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    I have found a bling MTB. If I bought 2 I am sure I could get hers at a price she is happy with. :D
     
  20. gplama

    gplama Well-Known Member

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    No! We don't want him getting in our way.. send him to B :)
     
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