sapim cx ray spoke-zipp wheel truing



C

Charles Beristain

Guest
I need to tweak the front wheel slightly .. but the spoke
rotates/winds up when adding or reducing tension..
I'm afraid I will wind up the spoke and break it before it "pops"
back.

Holding the spoke with a pair of pliers with a cloth wrapped around it
didn't seem to do the trick.

any suggestions on how best to do this?

thanks

charlie
 

daveornee

New Member
Sep 18, 2003
2,763
0
0
Charles Beristain said:
I need to tweak the front wheel slightly .. but the spoke
rotates/winds up when adding or reducing tension..
I'm afraid I will wind up the spoke and break it before it "pops"
back.

Holding the spoke with a pair of pliers with a cloth wrapped around it
didn't seem to do the trick.

any suggestions on how best to do this?

thanks

charlie
Sapim makes a spoke holding tool .
http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products&sub=racetools
See Item # 7.
It is a plastic donut shaped device with a couple of slots in it. You can either get one of them or make something that does the job with a slotted piece of plastic or other non-scratching material.
Make sure there is no thread locking compound on the nipple/spoke thread interface (or corroded aluminum alloy nipple threads). You can also side load the rim to decrease the tension on the spoke you are working on. A drop of light oil at the top of the nipple may help... wipe off excess oil.
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
 
J

jim beam

Guest
Charles Beristain wrote:
> I need to tweak the front wheel slightly .. but the spoke
> rotates/winds up when adding or reducing tension..
> I'm afraid I will wind up the spoke and break it before it "pops"
> back.
>
> Holding the spoke with a pair of pliers with a cloth wrapped around it
> didn't seem to do the trick.
>
> any suggestions on how best to do this?
>
> thanks
>
> charlie


is it just one or are all like this? if the latter, heat the spoke
nipple gently with a cigarette lighter as it's probably loctited.
 
C

Charles Beristain

Guest
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:15:06 -0700, jim beam
<[email protected]> wrote:

>is it just one or are all like this? if the latter, heat the spoke
>nipple gently with a cigarette lighter as it's probably loctited.


a brand new set of wheels... think zipp would locktite them?

guess I'll call zipp tech support and ask...

thanks

charlie
 
J

jim beam

Guest
Charles Beristain wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:15:06 -0700, jim beam
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> is it just one or are all like this? if the latter, heat the spoke
>> nipple gently with a cigarette lighter as it's probably loctited.

>
> a brand new set of wheels... think zipp would locktite them?
>
> guess I'll call zipp tech support and ask...
>
> thanks
>
> charlie


the high end sapim spoke nipples come with thread lock already in the
threads.
 
P

Phil Holman

Guest
"Charles Beristain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I need to tweak the front wheel slightly .. but the spoke
> rotates/winds up when adding or reducing tension..
> I'm afraid I will wind up the spoke and break it before it "pops"
> back.
>
> Holding the spoke with a pair of pliers with a cloth wrapped around it
> didn't seem to do the trick.
>
> any suggestions on how best to do this?


If it's because the thread friction is too high because of high spoke
tension, unloading the spoke may help. Have someone sit on the bike with
the spoke at the bottom.

Phil H
 
sheldon brown and jobst brandt mention this tool as a possible
necessity for alpine III's. DT Alpines are 35% heavier than the CX:

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=8806&category=2140


RBT genius suggested a 25 watt soldering iron as the nipple loctite
solution
but my experience with a variety of DT 'spoke freeze' applied without
cleaning nipples or spoke threads with solvent was the nipples turned
with 14GA after a distinct cracking sound. I held the spokes with vise
grips, spoke in a jaw tooth curve. try a soda can shim in there maybe
epoxy several in by finding a larger diamtere wire to form the AL or ?
into the jaw toothing.

asian loctite has for me been more yielding than euro or USA loctite.
less crack more give
 
G

Gary Young

Guest
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:58:42 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Charles Beristain wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:15:06 -0700, jim beam
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> is it just one or are all like this? if the latter, heat the spoke
>>> nipple gently with a cigarette lighter as it's probably loctited.

>>
>> a brand new set of wheels... think zipp would locktite them?
>>
>> guess I'll call zipp tech support and ask...
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> charlie

>
> the high end sapim spoke nipples come with thread lock already in the
> threads.


Are you sure? I was under the impression that there was that the threads
were shaped in a special way. Here's how Chalo described it in a long-ago
thread:

"Sapim "locking" nipples use some sort of irregular thread rather than
being impregnated with locking compound, if that matters to you."

http://tinyurl.com/35dmr6

I wasn't able to find much on the web, but it is described in a few places
as a "mechanical" system, including in this message, purportedly written by
someone from Sapim:

"its a mechanical deformation of part of the thread. Which means opposite
of nyloc or plastic inserts these can be loosened and retightened as many
times as you like. You built the wheels exactly the same manner as with
regular spokes, althought the nippel torque at the end of built will be
slightly higher than normal.

Thorsten
Sapim USA"

http://archive.mtbr.com/21/0EF93AFB.php
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
On Apr 28, 3:03 pm, Charles Beristain <[email protected]> wrote:
> I need to tweak the front wheel slightly .. but the spoke
> rotates/winds up when adding or reducing tension..
> I'm afraid I will wind up the spoke and break it before it "pops"
> back.
>
> Holding the spoke with a pair of pliers with a cloth wrapped around it
> didn't seem to do the trick.
>
> any suggestions on how best to do this?
>
> thanks
>
> charlie


called twist-resist..modified 3rd hand tool, used for this reason..go
ask yer LBS...or I can get ya one.
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
On Apr 28, 7:51 pm, Charles Beristain <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:15:06 -0700, jim beam
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >is it just one or are all like this? if the latter, heat the spoke
> >nipple gently with a cigarette lighter as it's probably loctited.

>
> a brand new set of wheels... think zipp would locktite them?
>
> guess I'll call zipp tech support and ask...
>
> thanks
>
> charlie


New set that needs to be 'tweaked'...WTFO??
 

>
> called twist-resist..modified 3rd hand tool, used for this reason..go
> ask yer LBS...or I can get ya one.


try walmart. wal has a small v-grip for $2. file a vee to fit spoke on
one side. use sand.
 
C

Charles Beristain

Guest
On 29 Apr 2007 06:02:08 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo
<[email protected]> wrote:


>called twist-resist..modified 3rd hand tool, used for this reason..go
>ask yer LBS...or I can get ya one.



I've even tried the modified 3rd hand tool ... but the section from
the tool to the nipple just twists, and I'm afraid if I continue until
it "pops", that I'll break the spoke.

and yes I'm disappointed after an uneventful ride that the front wheel
needs truing. I usually build my own wheels and this doesn't happen.

thanks

charlie
 
J

jim beam

Guest
Gary Young wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:58:42 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Charles Beristain wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:15:06 -0700, jim beam
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> is it just one or are all like this? if the latter, heat the spoke
>>>> nipple gently with a cigarette lighter as it's probably loctited.
>>> a brand new set of wheels... think zipp would locktite them?
>>>
>>> guess I'll call zipp tech support and ask...
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> charlie

>> the high end sapim spoke nipples come with thread lock already in the
>> threads.

>
> Are you sure? I was under the impression that there was that the threads
> were shaped in a special way. Here's how Chalo described it in a long-ago
> thread:
>
> "Sapim "locking" nipples use some sort of irregular thread rather than
> being impregnated with locking compound, if that matters to you."
>
> http://tinyurl.com/35dmr6
>
> I wasn't able to find much on the web, but it is described in a few places
> as a "mechanical" system, including in this message, purportedly written by
> someone from Sapim:
>
> "its a mechanical deformation of part of the thread. Which means opposite
> of nyloc or plastic inserts these can be loosened and retightened as many
> times as you like. You built the wheels exactly the same manner as with
> regular spokes, althought the nippel torque at the end of built will be
> slightly higher than normal.
>
> Thorsten
> Sapim USA"
>
> http://archive.mtbr.com/21/0EF93AFB.php


i'm not sure of the exact mechanism - you'll note that i didn't
specifically say loctite. but i'll take your word for it since thread
interference locking is a common enough method in other applications.
 
datakoll? writes:

> sheldon brown and jobst brandt mention this tool as a possible
> necessity for alpine III's. DT Alpines are 35% heavier than the CX:


http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=8806&category=2140

I'm sure I never endorsed the above tool. When truing with spokes of
insufficient torsional stiffness, I have unloaded spokes, and not
using thread lock, I have had no trouble turning the spoke nipples.
THat requires a sturdy truing stand in which the rim can be pulled to
the side of the spoke in question enough to slacken it. This works
quickly and easily. With low spoke count that requiring higher
tension than 32 or 36 spoke wheels, this becomes a regular problem.

> RBT genius suggested a 25 watt soldering iron as the nipple loctite
> solution but my experience with a variety of DT 'spoke freeze'
> applied without cleaning nipples or spoke threads with solvent was
> the nipples turned with 14GA after a distinct cracking sound. I held
> the spokes with vise grips, spoke in a jaw tooth curve. try a soda
> can shim in there maybe epoxy several in by finding a larger
> diamtere wire to form the AL or ? into the jaw toothing.


My experience is that even using vise-grip pliers directly on spokes,
they turn. As I mentioned, I have been after Holland Mechanics and
BMD to use a radial pneumatic piston to unload spokes on their
machines. That was even before low spoke count wheels came along.
The inability of wheel building machines to detect spoke twist or
resist it even using clamps have failed and that is where machine
built wheels got their bad name. Spoke-prep did not solve this.

> asian loctite has for me been more yielding than euro or USA loctite.
> less crack more give


I don't believer there is a USA Loctite or Hysol. They being part of
Henkel, a German company.

http://tinyurl.com/3ym4dy

Jobst Brandt
 
S

Sheldon Brown

Guest
Quoth Jobst Brandt:
> datakoll? writes:
> >sheldon brownand jobst brandt mention this tool as a possible
> > necessity for alpine III's. DT Alpines are 35% heavier than the CX:

>
> http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=8806&c...
>
> I'm sure I never endorsed the above tool.


I never endorsed it either, for Alpine IIIs.

It's more for Revolutions and other spokes that have extra skinny
middle sections. I also don't recommend such spokes.

Sheldon "Toolaholic" Brown
+---------------------------------------------+
| Do not needlessly endanger your lives |
| until I give you the signal. |
| --Dwight D. Eisenhower |
+---------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
you could be correct on that! as saying the spokes were tricky for a
novice due to windup and not as saying tricky AND requiring an extra
tool for holding them.
 
R

Rocky

Guest
Jobst, I've tried this. It seems to unload a drive side spoke takes more
than enough force to dislodge the wheel from my stand even if I reef down on
the clamping force.

What kind of stand do you have?

Rocky


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> datakoll? writes:

I have had no trouble turning the spoke nipples.
> THat requires a sturdy truing stand in which the rim can be pulled to
> the side of the spoke in question enough to slacken it. This works
> quickly and easily. With low spoke count that requiring higher
> tension than 32 or 36 spoke wheels, this becomes a regular problem.
>
>>