Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

  • Thread starter Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS
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S

Stephen Harding

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> On Mar 3, 4:31 pm, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 3, 11:36 am, [email protected] wrote:

>>
>>>>On Mar 2, 6:26 pm, Nate Nagel <[email protected]> wrote:

>>
>>>>>I feel more at risk of having my car dented by my local cyclists than I
>>>>>do by other motorists, and that's saying a lot because the drivers
>>>>>around here suck.

>>
>>>>That statement is proof of the extreme fantasies a motorhead will
>>>>indulge in! It's absolutely ludicrous!

>>
>>>>If you can prove me wrong, do it. Give me data about, say, the volume
>>>>of body shop work caused by bicyclists, versus caused by motorists.

>>
>>>>- Frank Krygowski

>>
>>>That wouldn't be a fair way of measuring. Much of the damage done to
>>>cars by bikes is of the hit & run variety. It could be they kicked
>>>the car and split, they just refused to exchange info, or a million
>>>other circumstances. When your car is damaged by another car there is
>>>usually insurance involved, accident reports filed, etc. If you hit
>>>my *truck* (just playing with you Frank) with your car and damage a
>>>panel, there's a fairly good chance I'll use some or all of the
>>>insurance money to repair the truck. If a bicycle hits my truck, the
>>>only way for it to be repaired on the offender's dime is if they stop
>>>and give me their info willingly, if they're so injured they need
>>>medical attention, or an officer happens to witness it and apprehend
>>>the cyclist. Two of those three circumstances seem quite unlikely.
>>>The exception, the cyclist being so injured they need medical
>>>attention, is likely to somehow cause me a bunch of headache even if
>>>they were at fault.

>>
>>So do you believe this situation is so pervasive, that bicycle
>>damage to cars actually does exceed that from other motor vehicles?

>
>
> No, I believe the "data" frank requested to "prove" him wrong was
> blatantly biased, unfair, and not a quality example. I believe that's
> what I typed. Where did you see the suggestion that I believe
> bicycle to car damage exceeds car to car damage?


The apparent implication that all the hit and run bicyclist damage
might be greater than damage to cars than by other cars.

The hit-and-run bicycle scenario seemed a stretch.


SMH
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Brent P? wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>>> Passing on the right 'equally bad'? Drive much in the USA?

>
>> Yes, and what other industrialized country has as badly trained drivers
>> as the US?

>
> The point is, if you don't pass on the right you aren't going to get very
> far at anything close to average interstate speeds.
>

Somehow, I almost always find a way to pass on the left. On a three lane
road, there is almost always a way to get around a slow vehicle in the
middle lane.

>>>> Should I drive off onto the left-hand shoulder or into the median
>>>> to let the person behind by, so he/she can tailgate the slow person in
>>>> the left lane?

>
>>> You can start by trying to wake up the asshole in front of you with your
>>> car's flash-to-pass feature.

>
>> That usually gets no reaction - they probably think you are doing the
>> "cop ahead" signal.

>
> So you don't even try....
>

Usually someone else will come along and give them the message. I am not
in such a hurry that a few seconds will make any real difference.

>>> Considering that you apparently don't find LLBing assholish

>
>> Apparently Brent P comprehends incorrectly.

>
> Let's see, you enable LLB's, you refuse to do anything to wake them up,
> and you're willing to match their speed until they exit, you exit or the
> heat death of the universe (as nate would say).
>
>>> and aren't
>>> willing to pass said LLBs on the right, I can only conclude you are a
>>> passive aggressive asshole who wishes to bottle up the road and control
>>> everyone else's speed. The LLB and a little twisted logic about the
>>> horrors of 'passing on the right' and in your own mind you are able to
>>> accomplish the goal of controling the speed of the road and not see
>>> yourself as the asshole.

>
>> Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?

>
> You're the one posting nonsense. If you're so willing to stay behind
> asshole drivers blocking the passing lane you must be getting something
> out of it. Why bother driving fast enough to catch up to anyone at all if
> you're not going to pass? In the chicago area I encounter the first LLB
> or middle lane camper usually as I come down the ramp.... I couldn't even
> merge on to the expressway if I couldn't 'pass on the right'.
>

How does merging involve passing anyone once past the solid white line?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
S

Stephen Harding

Guest
[email protected] wrote:

> Didn't you say you lived in MA? Noone but "Mr Speeders" (are we in
> kindergarten?) are parked in the passing lane? Please. To speed
> excessively in MA during times of traffic you need to bob & weave.
> There is consistently 65-70MPH traffic parked in the left lane.


I think I'd put it higher than that.

My MA state trooper bother-in-law has told me you need to go
75mph or better to get pulled over on the Pike.

I think everyone pretty much knows that so the de facto speed
limit on the Mass Pike is 75mph.


SMH
 
N

Nate Nagel

Guest
Stephen Harding wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Mar 3, 4:31 pm, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mar 3, 11:36 am, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On Mar 2, 6:26 pm, Nate Nagel <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I feel more at risk of having my car dented by my local cyclists
>>>>>> than I
>>>>>> do by other motorists, and that's saying a lot because the drivers
>>>>>> around here suck.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> That statement is proof of the extreme fantasies a motorhead will
>>>>> indulge in! It's absolutely ludicrous!
>>>
>>>
>>>>> If you can prove me wrong, do it. Give me data about, say, the volume
>>>>> of body shop work caused by bicyclists, versus caused by motorists.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>
>>>
>>>> That wouldn't be a fair way of measuring. Much of the damage done to
>>>> cars by bikes is of the hit & run variety. It could be they kicked
>>>> the car and split, they just refused to exchange info, or a million
>>>> other circumstances. When your car is damaged by another car there is
>>>> usually insurance involved, accident reports filed, etc. If you hit
>>>> my *truck* (just playing with you Frank) with your car and damage a
>>>> panel, there's a fairly good chance I'll use some or all of the
>>>> insurance money to repair the truck. If a bicycle hits my truck, the
>>>> only way for it to be repaired on the offender's dime is if they stop
>>>> and give me their info willingly, if they're so injured they need
>>>> medical attention, or an officer happens to witness it and apprehend
>>>> the cyclist. Two of those three circumstances seem quite unlikely.
>>>> The exception, the cyclist being so injured they need medical
>>>> attention, is likely to somehow cause me a bunch of headache even if
>>>> they were at fault.
>>>
>>>
>>> So do you believe this situation is so pervasive, that bicycle
>>> damage to cars actually does exceed that from other motor vehicles?

>>
>>
>>
>> No, I believe the "data" frank requested to "prove" him wrong was
>> blatantly biased, unfair, and not a quality example. I believe that's
>> what I typed. Where did you see the suggestion that I believe
>> bicycle to car damage exceeds car to car damage?

>
>
> The apparent implication that all the hit and run bicyclist damage
> might be greater than damage to cars than by other cars.
>
> The hit-and-run bicycle scenario seemed a stretch.


No, the implication was that I feel that I am more *likely* to be hit by
a bicyclist than another car. I said nothing about the level of damage.
I don't worry about what happens *when* I'm hit; I worry about
avoiding being hit altogether. Yes, I've bowed out of the SUV size
wars; most people would consider my car tiny and the Ugly Truck only
leaves the driveway when I've got something to haul.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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B

Brent P

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Stephen Harding wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>, Stephen Harding wrote:>
>>
>>>No one is being cut off.

>>
>> So what made that car appear behind you? Did it decloak? Either you
>> didn't look behind you before changing lanes which means you don't care or
>> you did but don't care.
>>
>> I look, I see someone gaining on me at a rate
>> where I won't complete the pass before he reaches me, I don't change
>> lanes until he's by me. Simple. It is quite obvious you don't do that.

>
> I do not cut anyone off. I most certainly will pull out to pass
> when I do not know when my pass might be completed.


That's MFFY. Rather assholish.

> How could I know, if there is a line of vehicles to be passed, and
> perhaps a line of cars in the passing lane passing in their own
> right, how long a pass will take?


So not only are you an assholish driver, you're an unaware assholish
driver. I look ahead, way ahead, when I drive. I know what I have to pass
before I move out into the left lane.

> I've driven through IL on I-90/I-80 and I know for a fact that the
> driving conditions can be the same as here in MA on I-90 (Mass Pike).


> I don't believe for a minute that you calculate how long your pass
> will take and will sit in lane until a sufficient gap opens in traffic
> astern for you to pass in such a way that you cause no "inconvenience"
> to others who may be traveling faster than you astern.


I do it every time I'm out on the expressways and drive faster than at
least one person out there. It's not difficult. Sure, occasionally
someone who is pacing me sees me flick on my turn signal and then decides
to speed up, they can sit on it, I complete my lane change and start
passing... once they've failed at blocking me they slow back down and
receed in my mirrors.

>>>No one (other than the Mr Speedies) are parked in the passing lane.


>> Your +2mph is ~= 'parked in the passing lane'.


> Says you.


Says most reasonable people. 2mph isn't even worth passing for.

>>>Why can't you understand the "public" in public highway?


>> It is you who cannot understand that the road doesn't belong to regulate
>> its speed.


> I'm going "my speed" which is the speed limit or slightly above.
> Apparently "regulation" of other's speed is merely not getting
> out of the way of speeders fast enough.


How MFFY of you. You're speed is morally superior... the hell with anyone
else.

>>>Practice your driving on an old abandoned runway if you can't
>>>handle sharing a public roadway with the public.


>> You people are just a one trick pony... anyone who disagrees with you is
>> a boy racer using the roads as a race track.... nonsense.


> I haven't seen a whole lot of diversity in thinking from your
> camp.


Name calling isn't 'thinking'.

>>>I'm not talking "cutting people off" to regulate their speed. I'm
>>>not a cop and have no interest in acting like one. If you wish
>>>to go 90 mph feel free. Just don't expect me to accelerate up
>>>to 90 so you won't have to back off on the throttle.


>> It seems that you and others do want to act as the road controller. Keep
>> right except to pass, make your pass and get over with. You're chastising
>> anyone who drives faster than you, but a 2mph speed differential is so
>> bloody important to you? 2mph... I don't go around blocking a passing
>> lane for a good long time to go 2mph faster than the guy I would be
>> 'passing'. I just stay to the right. It's 2mph out of at least 55mph...
>> who the f cares? 2mph is important when you're on a bicycle and max out
>> around 30mph, but on a limited acccess highway traveling between 55 and
>> 85mph it's nothing.


> I keep to the right except to pass.


With all sorts of techincal reasons to justify your blocking. You're just
an LLB who's found a way to excuse it in his own mine.

> If the speed limit is 65mph and I'm passing someone at 67mph you'll
> just have to wait a bit for me to complete my pass. You shouldn't
> be doing 80 or 90 anyways.


Here you go again with your MFFY and self proclaimed moral superiority.
If you're doing 67mph to pass someone doing 65mph, you might as well just
stay right and do 65mph.

> I don't care if you want to do 180 after you pass me. I just don't
> want to be doing 90 to get out of your way. You'll have to wait.
> Nothing personal.


You're an asshole to other people on the road universally, so what?

You refuse to go 2mph slower for at most a handful of seconds but demand
other drivers go 20mph slower until you've passed every vehicle to the
horizon.... that's assholish.

>>>Montana can keep it's open speed limit if it wants I really don't care.


>> It's gone.


> Last I heard it was unlimited during the day, but "only" 80 at
> night.


You're data is wrong and wildly out of date.

> The speed limit is irrelevant in this case. In the absence of a limit,
> drivers should go as fast as they feel comfortable with. Again, persons
> coming up from behind at a faster speed will have to wait. The driver
> isn't required to accommodate faster movers.


You have it ass-backwards. Go to Germany and try your ****.

> Will you accelerate to 180mph if someone in a Lamborghini comes up
> astern of you in Montana (of old)? Or I presume you'll stay put
> because you know the guy is haulin' until he passes. What if there
> is a line of cars passing a "convoy" of trucks? Do you need to sit
> tight until all the cars ahead of you, along with the Lamborghini,
> have passed by before starting your pass?


I wait until the lambo is past me and fall in behind it... What's so
freakin' hard about that for you? I have *NEVER* encountered more than a
line of three vehicles going dramatically faster than me that I had to
wait for. I've waited for *dozens* that were going slight faster than me
in crowded traffic on numerous occasions. It's tough **** for me that I
need to change lanes, it doesn't give me a right to be an asshole to some
third party.

>>>Germany can keep unlimited speed on its autobahn if it wants. Hell
>>>it can even unregulate speed through downdowns or residential areas
>>>if it wants. I don't care!


>> The control freaks in the european union are coming up with new angles to
>> get rid of it.


> Why?


Why? Why do control freaks do anything? Same reason you demand other
drivers slow to your speed, they believe they are morally superior and
should tell other people what to do.

>>>I only care about not being bullied into driving in a manner I don't
>>>want to drive. I do the speed limit (more or less). I keep right
>>>except to pass. I don't cut people off.

>>
>> If you are getting people 'appearing' behind you all ****** off, you
>> clearly are cutting them off or otherwise being rude.


> Not if the people themselves are rude, self interested types. *Anyone*
> on the road that slows them or prevents their travel pisses them off.


You seem to run across them so often it must be your behavior pissing
people off.

>>>But I'm not going to change my driving speed, while adequately passing
>>>someone, because somebody feels a public road is his private runway.


>> Your control freakish moral superiority complex is showing again.


>> Again, you express that you don't care one bit about the traffic gaining
>> on you. This makes it clear to me that you just change lanes to make your
>> +2mph pass without concern to them needing to brake for you. A MFFY
>> move. Then again, considering how they 'appear' suddenly there is the
>> possibility you don't use your mirrors well. For someone to 'appear' as
>> you describe even on an urban/suburban interstate they have to be doing
>> well over 100mph. That just ain't that common.


> I have quite good situation awareness driving the interstates. I've
> been doing it a long time.


You just stated you don't even know what you have to pass before you pull
out to pass. If you call that good I'd hate to hear what bad is.

>>>However, alcohol effects on driver reflexes is quite well documented
>>>and at speeds some feel the right to engage in, I'd think they would
>>>need all the reflex capabilities they could muster.


>> More bicycle helmet zealot equal type stuff.

>
> You're stuck in a bike helmet zealot rut. I've already mentioned I
> don't wear a bike helmet and am against mandatory bike helmet laws.


You don't get it. You're quoting the gospel of their automotive equal.
It's just as much ********, if not more.
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Nate Nagel wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but find it
>>>>>> exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
>>>>>> explode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
>>>> driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
>>>> thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
>>>> or traffic stops.
>>>>
>>>> I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".
>>>
>>>
>>> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane
>>> behind some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy
>>> in a Buick doing 63.9999998.
>>>
>>> The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're either
>>> just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or even
>>> worse, pacing the car next to them not either in front of or far
>>> enough behind to slip through without some really squidly driving.
>>>
>>> That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in the
>>> seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do actively hold
>>> him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in the passing lane
>>> and that's the behavior he's come to expect from other motorists. If
>>> you pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll be pleasantly
>>> surprised and might even acknowledge your courtesy with a wave as he
>>> passes. If you actively block him, you're just another of the rude
>>> and/or clueless masses that make everyday driving unpleasant.
>>>

>> Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
>> "micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high
>> beams when I was passing in that speed differential range.
>>

>
> I can honestly say that I've never had that happen to me, and like I
> said, the metro DC area is the home of the worst drivers I've ever had
> the misfortune of encountering. I've also lived in Michigan where even
> the 70 MPH speed limits are merely a suggestion. (although lane
> discipline in MI is refreshingly good, in comparison) So I have to ask,
> are you sure you're really going 10 MPH faster? This would imply that
> you'd be passing a truck with a 53 foot trailer - say total length 70
> feet? at a guess? - in roughly 5 seconds or so, which isn't
> unreasonable IMO. If so, where the heck are you?
>

I had this happen plenty of times in the Chicago area, and also in
Wisconsin (usually by people with Illinois plates). These are the
vehicles that are cutting back and forth from lane to lane, passing on
the left, center and right, and often without signaling lane changes.

There are also the people that speed up to try to prevent others from
changing lanes as soon as they see a turn signal go on. Often, the two
are the same.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
S

Stephen Harding

Guest
Brent P wrote:

> Believe it or not, much of the time I am in the bottom 50% speed wise.


Color me surprised Brent!

> Even when I drive the fastest I am willing to go, there are drivers going
> faster. I don't drive faster than the ISP officers drive, but a good
> number of people don't so restrict themselves.


I don't doubt that. Here in MA I get a kick out of watching people
passing Staties. *Some* don't seem intimidated at all.

On the other hand, there are people suddenly going from 75 mph to
50 (well under the 65mph limit) when a Statie appears.

Go figure.


SMH
 
N

Nate Nagel

Guest
Tom Sherman wrote:

> How does merging involve passing anyone once past the solid white line?


That's just a dumb comment. If you've just merged into traffic at your
chosen travel speed, but there's someone in the middle or leftmost lane
driving slowly (as is common here, and I assume elsewhere as well) how
do you *not* pass him on the right? Do you brake until you're going
slower than him, then change two lanes to the left and then pass? Or if
he's in the leftmost lane, sit behind him and wait for him to move right
for you?

I do have to admit, if I come up on a middle lane camper in light
traffic, sometimes rather than pass him on the right I will actually
change two lanes to the left to pass, then change two lanes back to the
right, in some vain hope that they'll get it when they see me change
back in front of them. I don't think it ever sinks in though. In heavy
traffic I won't bother if I've got a clear run in the right lane, not
worth the risk of someone else changing lanes into me from the opposite
direction.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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B

Brent P

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman wrote:
> Brent P? wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Mar 3, 10:04 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Mar 3, 9:50 am, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "I wanna go faaaster. Get outta my waaay! I'm commin through!
>>>>> <honk><honk><light_flash><light_flash>"
>>>> Flash-to-pass is NOT "get outta my way", it's "excuse me,
>>>> please move to the right". Have you ever been walking down a sidewalk
>>>> and had a group of people blocking the whole thing, engrossed in their
>>>> conversation or whathaveyou? In that situation, what would you do? I
>>>> would say "excuse me", as I have in the past. That's the exact same
>>>> thing as flash-to-pass.
>>> The situation we've all experienced and are complaining about is not a
>>> simple flash-to-pass. Instead, it's this:
>>>
>>> Approach from behind with at least 10 mph speed differential;
>>>
>>> Maintain that approach speed until within about ten feet of the car in
>>> front;
>>>
>>> Begin flashing lights repeatedly, even though the car in front is
>>> passing a truck at or slightly above the speed limit, or even though
>>> the car in front is prevented from completing passing by yet another
>>> car.

>>
>> I get it now.... Frank and the rest of them don't even notice there is
>> someone behind them until that guy has been blocked for minutes and has a
>> reached a significant frustration level and/or has escalated his attempts
>> to wake them from their mindless stupor.
>>
>> If you actually saw them 'maintain speed until 10 feet off your bumper',
>> that's behavior consistant with someone sliding in front of them going
>> much slower. There is an expectation when you move in front of them, to
>> accelerate. That's why he didn't brake, he was expecting you to
>> accelerate. But you didn't. MFFY.
>>

> No, some people do the same maneuver when one is maintaining a steady
> speed in the right lane. They are attempting to scare people by closing
> so quickly because they are bullies.


If you haven't moved into their path it's because they aren't
particularly aware of their surroundings much of the time. Some are just
assholes. It has nothing to do with being a bully... bullies back away
when they encounter someone who will stand up to them.
 
S

Stephen Harding

Guest
Tom Sherman wrote:
> Brent P? wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> I want speed limits set properly and lane discipline to be the
>> priority. Nothing 'unregulated' about it. The condition we have today
>> is chaos compared to what I propose. What I propose is orderly and
>> safe limited access highways unlike today's cluster f*ck of drivers
>> scatttered *****-nilly all over the road in different lanes.[...]

>
>
> The USians need to learn from the Germans and ticket the "left lane
> bandits" and right hand passers.


My German friend tells me it costs about $5000 to get a license
in Germany. They're more serious about "driver education" than
we are in the US.

There would be a revolt in the US if it cost that much to get a
driver's license!


SMH
 
N

Nate Nagel

Guest
Tom Sherman wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but
>>>>>>> find it
>>>>>>> exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
>>>>>>> explode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
>>>>> driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
>>>>> thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
>>>>> or traffic stops.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane
>>>> behind some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old guy
>>>> in a Buick doing 63.9999998.
>>>>
>>>> The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're either
>>>> just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or even
>>>> worse, pacing the car next to them not either in front of or far
>>>> enough behind to slip through without some really squidly driving.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in
>>>> the seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do actively
>>>> hold him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in the passing
>>>> lane and that's the behavior he's come to expect from other
>>>> motorists. If you pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll be
>>>> pleasantly surprised and might even acknowledge your courtesy with a
>>>> wave as he passes. If you actively block him, you're just another
>>>> of the rude and/or clueless masses that make everyday driving
>>>> unpleasant.
>>>>
>>> Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
>>> "micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high
>>> beams when I was passing in that speed differential range.
>>>

>>
>> I can honestly say that I've never had that happen to me, and like I
>> said, the metro DC area is the home of the worst drivers I've ever had
>> the misfortune of encountering. I've also lived in Michigan where
>> even the 70 MPH speed limits are merely a suggestion. (although lane
>> discipline in MI is refreshingly good, in comparison) So I have to
>> ask, are you sure you're really going 10 MPH faster? This would imply
>> that you'd be passing a truck with a 53 foot trailer - say total
>> length 70 feet? at a guess? - in roughly 5 seconds or so, which isn't
>> unreasonable IMO. If so, where the heck are you?
>>

> I had this happen plenty of times in the Chicago area, and also in
> Wisconsin (usually by people with Illinois plates). These are the
> vehicles that are cutting back and forth from lane to lane, passing on
> the left, center and right, and often without signaling lane changes.


I've only driven in Chicago briefly, but again, never had that happen to me.

Is there anywhere in the CONUS where drivers DO regularly signal lane
changes? It seems to be an optional courtesy to most people, and most
people don't seem to be courteous.

> There are also the people that speed up to try to prevent others from
> changing lanes as soon as they see a turn signal go on. Often, the two
> are the same.


That's when you suddenly have an attack of decreased peripheral vision,
and can't see them anymore. NB: do NOT do this unless you are
absolutely sure that you have an accurate mental picture of the road
around you, the speeds and positions of all vehicles in the immediate
vicinity, etc. etc. etc. In fact, it's probably a bad idea to do this
at all.

Also, if you set yourself up so that you have a clear, safe, legal space
to change lanes into, simply put on your signal and go. Don't hesitate
and give other drivers the opportunity to cut you off. It's sad that
things have come to this, but people are basically ******* coated
bastards with ******* filling. (obscure?)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
 
N

Nate Nagel

Guest
Stephen Harding wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> Brent P? wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>> I want speed limits set properly and lane discipline to be the
>>> priority. Nothing 'unregulated' about it. The condition we have today
>>> is chaos compared to what I propose. What I propose is orderly and
>>> safe limited access highways unlike today's cluster f*ck of drivers
>>> scatttered *****-nilly all over the road in different lanes.[...]

>>
>>
>>
>> The USians need to learn from the Germans and ticket the "left lane
>> bandits" and right hand passers.

>
>
> My German friend tells me it costs about $5000 to get a license
> in Germany. They're more serious about "driver education" than
> we are in the US.
>
> There would be a revolt in the US if it cost that much to get a
> driver's license!
>
>
> SMH


I'd gladly pay if it meant sharing the road with drivers that behaved
like Germans.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
 
B

Brent P

Guest
In article <Ul3zj.3526$W%[email protected]>, Stephen Harding wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Stephen Harding wrote:
>>
>>
>>>if there is a long line of traffic to my right lane, I am required
>>>to accelerate to 90 mph so the person behind me will not be in an
>>>over-taking situation?
>>>
>>>Will the cop that stops me understand that?
>>>
>>>I think there is more to the law in these circumstances than you
>>>are implying. I'll have to ask my state troop brother-in-law what
>>>the legal situation is here in MA.

>>
>>
>> Why is your +2mph pass so damn important anyway?

>
> It's not "important". It's just "my speed". Perhaps 67-72mph on the
> Mass Pike. Sometimes 62-65mph in the right lane letting *everyone*
> pass by.


You make it so damn important that you just pull out when you can clearly
see other drivers closing rapidly.... What's so important about 67 vs.
65? I'm one the you and others are calling an impaitent boy racer and I
don't give two ***** about a 2 mph difference.

>> I find it interesting that drivers such as yourself are all about slow is
>> safe and calling other drivers impaitent, etc... so it puzzles me as to
>> why it's so damn important to go 2mph faster than you were going before
>> you caught up to someone in the right lane?


> "Slow" is a relative term. I've already presented *lots* of studies
> that link higher speed with increased accident rates. It's real enough
> to me.


You didn't see you present any studies. I saw you paraphrase speed kills
propagada. It has as about as much weight to people in the know as the
stuff spouted by the typical bicycle helmet zealot does over in the
bicycling world.

2mph is damn important to you, but 20mph for someone else is tough ****.
I think I got you pegged. MFFY.

> But I drive a mixed agenda. I drive 138 miles each way most weekends
> during the summer in my 16 mpg Dodge half ton, V-8, 4WD pickup truck
> mostly on I-90, I-195 and Rt 146 (RI/MA). These are all divided
> highways. I try to save a little gas, which I can do at under 65 mph,
> but I also want to get to where I'm going or home again. Sometimes I
> might drive close to 75mph and just accept the 15mpg penalty.


Yeah, MFFY.

> I drive with cruise control and prefer to avoid tapping it on and off.
> I don't care if someone passes me (it seems some people do). I don't
> attempt to regulate other's speed. They can drive themselves into a
> tree if they want (hopefully not another car).


Cruise control on and too lazy to turn off another sign of MFFY.

> Nothing special at all.


Yep, garden variety unaware selfish MFFY driver in a big ass gas guzzling
light truck.

>> Just wait for a big enough gap to make your pass, if one never happens,
>> what's the big deal for paitent adult driver who believes slower speeds
>> are safer and morally superior to faster ones? It's only 2mph.


> I'm patient but within reason. I don't want to sit behind a semi doing
> 45 mph up a hill (flashers engaged) if I can pass him. That doesn't
> mean cutting anyone off, but it might mean someone coming up at high
> rate of speed may end up having to wait a bit.


You also suffer from invisible bus syndrome... Well I guess that comes
from not looking far enough ahead, which you already admitted.

> The active, legal speed limit is the arbiter of speed to my mind. As
> long as I'm doing the speed limit, no one has a right to complain I'm
> going too slow. If I'm doing 55 in the left lane, that's another
> issue.


I am sure you have your assholish behavior all reasoned out in your head.
 
B

Brent P

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman wrote:

>> I wait until I can change lanes and pass without causing problems for
>> other people going faster than I. Why is it such a problem for you?


> Waiting for other people is easy on a rural freeway, where one can
> easily see every vehicle and the gaps are big. On an urban freeway, the
> faster vehicle may not be in the left lane until the last minute, and
> may be screened from view by other vehicles.


I don't get out on to anything one could call a 'rural freeway' much
except when I go camping... and then if I am driving it's my friends big
ass econoline van... I rarely leave the right lane with that thing.

> The plus 2 mph pass is Brent P's words, not anyone else's.


See mr. 67mph cruise control passing someone doing 65.

>>> You need to stay on your own private roadway. You don't have
>>> the understanding to actually deal with driving a public road.


>> Seriously, you need to lay off this ********. I know how to deal with a
>> public road far better than you and the other asshats in this country who
>> see the highway as their passive-aggressive control freak playground.


> Projecting here?


I don't have people flashing me in the left lane.... You boys do.
 
B

Brent P

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman wrote:
> Brent P? wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>>>> Passing on the right 'equally bad'? Drive much in the USA?

>>
>>> Yes, and what other industrialized country has as badly trained drivers
>>> as the US?

>>
>> The point is, if you don't pass on the right you aren't going to get very
>> far at anything close to average interstate speeds.


> Somehow, I almost always find a way to pass on the left. On a three lane
> road, there is almost always a way to get around a slow vehicle in the
> middle lane.


You must have like no traffic in your parts. Try the dan ryan or edens
expressways. Especially on edens on a sunday night northbound.... That's
when the WI drivers are heading home... they sit in the left most lane
and *NEVER* move over until the edens spur. It's justice when traffic
keeps them from getting right in time and they have to go up to lake-cook
road turn around, go south, exit, get back on going north, and then hit
the spur.

> Usually someone else will come along and give them the message. I am not
> in such a hurry that a few seconds will make any real difference.


So for you to live your left side passing only life, you have to rely on
the very drivers you consider assholes. Interesting....

>> You're the one posting nonsense. If you're so willing to stay behind
>> asshole drivers blocking the passing lane you must be getting something
>> out of it. Why bother driving fast enough to catch up to anyone at all if
>> you're not going to pass? In the chicago area I encounter the first LLB
>> or middle lane camper usually as I come down the ramp.... I couldn't even
>> merge on to the expressway if I couldn't 'pass on the right'.


> How does merging involve passing anyone once past the solid white line?


Maybe you missed how I explained a typical traffic condition. the left
and middle lanes are blocked up with slow drivers... the mostly open lane
is the right one. It's actually moving faster... plus the best way to
merge is to be going faster than the traffic you are merging into. Brakes
are more powerful than the engine so it's easier to slow down at the last
moment to time a gap that has shifted than to accelerate further.
 
B

Brent P

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Stephen Harding wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>
>> Believe it or not, much of the time I am in the bottom 50% speed wise.

>
> Color me surprised Brent!
>
>> Even when I drive the fastest I am willing to go, there are drivers going
>> faster. I don't drive faster than the ISP officers drive, but a good
>> number of people don't so restrict themselves.

>
> I don't doubt that. Here in MA I get a kick out of watching people
> passing Staties. *Some* don't seem intimidated at all.
>
> On the other hand, there are people suddenly going from 75 mph to
> 50 (well under the 65mph limit) when a Statie appears.
>
> Go figure.


Up to recently ISP officers typicalled cruised in the 85-95mph range
IME. Recently the one's I've seen have been in hunt mode or
uncharacteristically slow.

That said, there's nothing new in this thread for me and I'm done.
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Brent P? wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Brent P? wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Mar 3, 10:04 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 3, 9:50 am, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "I wanna go faaaster. Get outta my waaay! I'm commin through!
>>>>>> <honk><honk><light_flash><light_flash>"
>>>>> Flash-to-pass is NOT "get outta my way", it's "excuse me,
>>>>> please move to the right". Have you ever been walking down a sidewalk
>>>>> and had a group of people blocking the whole thing, engrossed in their
>>>>> conversation or whathaveyou? In that situation, what would you do? I
>>>>> would say "excuse me", as I have in the past. That's the exact same
>>>>> thing as flash-to-pass.
>>>> The situation we've all experienced and are complaining about is not a
>>>> simple flash-to-pass. Instead, it's this:
>>>>
>>>> Approach from behind with at least 10 mph speed differential;
>>>>
>>>> Maintain that approach speed until within about ten feet of the car in
>>>> front;
>>>>
>>>> Begin flashing lights repeatedly, even though the car in front is
>>>> passing a truck at or slightly above the speed limit, or even though
>>>> the car in front is prevented from completing passing by yet another
>>>> car.
>>> I get it now.... Frank and the rest of them don't even notice there is
>>> someone behind them until that guy has been blocked for minutes and has a
>>> reached a significant frustration level and/or has escalated his attempts
>>> to wake them from their mindless stupor.
>>>
>>> If you actually saw them 'maintain speed until 10 feet off your bumper',
>>> that's behavior consistant with someone sliding in front of them going
>>> much slower. There is an expectation when you move in front of them, to
>>> accelerate. That's why he didn't brake, he was expecting you to
>>> accelerate. But you didn't. MFFY.
>>>

>> No, some people do the same maneuver when one is maintaining a steady
>> speed in the right lane. They are attempting to scare people by closing
>> so quickly because they are bullies.

>
> If you haven't moved into their path it's because they aren't
> particularly aware of their surroundings much of the time.


Unlikely in these cases. The brain dead ones are those who close on
light traffic rural freeways, and then let the person ahead of them
"drive" for them, even though there are half-mile or longer gaps in the
left lane traffic.

> Some are just assholes.


Yes, those are the ones I referred to in my original post. Sometimes
Usenet conversations go awry due to different parties putting different
interpretations on the same words.

> It has nothing to do with being a bully... bullies back away
> when they encounter someone who will stand up to them.
>

Indeed.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Nate Nagel wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>> Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephen Harding wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You expect everyone else to change *their* speed for you, but
>>>>>>>> find it
>>>>>>>> exceedingly rude for them to want you to change your speed for
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The inherent contradiction in your position *should* make your head
>>>>>>>> explode.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LOL. You MFFYs are the dumbest folks on the planet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I'M DOING THE DAMN SPEED LIMIT OR ABOVE BRENT!!*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry. All you characters are beginning to merge into one
>>>>>> driver madly flashing their headlights, doing 90 mph and
>>>>>> thinking they don't really need to abide by speed limits
>>>>>> or traffic stops.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess it's an instance of "Ed" rather than "Brent".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not at all. We're just sick of being stuck in the passing lane
>>>>> behind some old guy in a Buick doing 64 "passing" some other old
>>>>> guy in a Buick doing 63.9999998.
>>>>>
>>>>> The VAST majority of LLBs aren't even passing anyone, they're
>>>>> either just camping out in the left lane for no apparent reason, or
>>>>> even worse, pacing the car next to them not either in front of or
>>>>> far enough behind to slip through without some really squidly driving.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I can understand your frustration, but put yourself in
>>>>> the seat of the guy behind you. He's *expecting* you to do
>>>>> actively hold him up, because you're driving slow (relatively) in
>>>>> the passing lane and that's the behavior he's come to expect from
>>>>> other motorists. If you pass promtply and move over quickly, he'll
>>>>> be pleasantly surprised and might even acknowledge your courtesy
>>>>> with a wave as he passes. If you actively block him, you're just
>>>>> another of the rude and/or clueless masses that make everyday
>>>>> driving unpleasant.
>>>>>
>>>> Do you believe that a 10 to 15 mph speed differential is
>>>> "micro-passing"? I have had people close up and turn on their high
>>>> beams when I was passing in that speed differential range.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can honestly say that I've never had that happen to me, and like I
>>> said, the metro DC area is the home of the worst drivers I've ever
>>> had the misfortune of encountering. I've also lived in Michigan
>>> where even the 70 MPH speed limits are merely a suggestion.
>>> (although lane discipline in MI is refreshingly good, in comparison)
>>> So I have to ask, are you sure you're really going 10 MPH faster?
>>> This would imply that you'd be passing a truck with a 53 foot trailer
>>> - say total length 70 feet? at a guess? - in roughly 5 seconds or
>>> so, which isn't unreasonable IMO. If so, where the heck are you?
>>>

>> I had this happen plenty of times in the Chicago area, and also in
>> Wisconsin (usually by people with Illinois plates). These are the
>> vehicles that are cutting back and forth from lane to lane, passing on
>> the left, center and right, and often without signaling lane changes.

>
> I've only driven in Chicago briefly, but again, never had that happen to
> me.
>
> Is there anywhere in the CONUS where drivers DO regularly signal lane
> changes? It seems to be an optional courtesy to most people, and most
> people don't seem to be courteous.
>

It is not too bad in the upper Midwest.

>> There are also the people that speed up to try to prevent others from
>> changing lanes as soon as they see a turn signal go on. Often, the two
>> are the same.

>
> That's when you suddenly have an attack of decreased peripheral vision,
> and can't see them anymore. NB: do NOT do this unless you are
> absolutely sure that you have an accurate mental picture of the road
> around you, the speeds and positions of all vehicles in the immediate
> vicinity, etc. etc. etc. In fact, it's probably a bad idea to do this
> at all.
>

That maneuver works well when you need to change lanes, e.g. getting
over to the right to exit or to the left when the right lane is ending
ahead. It can also be necessary to merge into heavy traffic.

> Also, if you set yourself up so that you have a clear, safe, legal space
> to change lanes into, simply put on your signal and go. Don't hesitate
> and give other drivers the opportunity to cut you off. It's sad that
> things have come to this, but people are basically ******* coated
> bastards with ******* filling. (obscure?)
>

Yes, another technique that is sometimes necessary in urban driving.

Things seemed a lot better 20 years ago, when the number of vehicles on
the roads were much fewer.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Brent P? wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>>> I wait until I can change lanes and pass without causing problems for
>>> other people going faster than I. Why is it such a problem for you?

>
>> Waiting for other people is easy on a rural freeway, where one can
>> easily see every vehicle and the gaps are big. On an urban freeway, the
>> faster vehicle may not be in the left lane until the last minute, and
>> may be screened from view by other vehicles.

>
> I don't get out on to anything one could call a 'rural freeway' much
> except when I go camping... and then if I am driving it's my friends big
> ass econoline van... I rarely leave the right lane with that thing.
>

The delivery truck drivers seem to cut in and out of traffic in their
vans quite a bit.

On the other hand, when I drove a Class B truck, I would try to stay to
the right as much as possible to keep people out of my blind spot, and
made lane changes very slowly.

>> The plus 2 mph pass is Brent P's words, not anyone else's.

>
> See mr. 67mph cruise control passing someone doing 65.
>

I have had the issue when passing at 10+ mph speed differential - hardly
"micro passing".

>>>> You need to stay on your own private roadway. You don't have
>>>> the understanding to actually deal with driving a public road.

>
>>> Seriously, you need to lay off this ********. I know how to deal with a
>>> public road far better than you and the other asshats in this country who
>>> see the highway as their passive-aggressive control freak playground.

>
>> Projecting here?

>
> I don't have people flashing me in the left lane.... You boys do.
>

You must have good luck them. Or maybe the real jerks are driving on the
right-hand shoulder to pass.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
 
Z

Zoot Katz

Guest
On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:21:09 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote, in
part:
\
>
>Geez, guys! It's OK to trim the posts, you know!
>
>Bill Sornson isn't even reading this, so it won't confuse anyone!


Who?
--
zk
 

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