Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

[gpsman]

On Mar 5, 12:33 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mar 4, 7:41 pm, Nate Nagel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > [email protected] wrote:
>
> > >>Your post calls for no real addressing. The data, almost ALL of it,
> > >>shows speeds going up, and fatalities going down.
>
> > > False. Stephen has posted over a dozen counterexamples.
>
> > There *are* no reliable sources that support your assertion.
>
> For counterexamples to disprove your "no reliable sources," here's
> what Stephen Harding found and posted. I quote: <>
>
> That's quite a bit different from your claim that there are "no
> reliable studies." Is it possible that a study's reliability depends
> on whether you like its outcome?
>
> I'll note that the general run of argument from the driving fans has
> been: Speed has no bearing on safety - because we want to drive
> faster. Speed limits are set too low - because we want to drive
> faster. There are too many stop signs - because we want to drive
> faster. Speed humps should not be used in residential neighborhoods -
> because we want to drive faster. We'll refuse to shop in your area -
> because we want to drive faster.
>
> If, at any time, one of you were to say "Well, here's an instance
> where drivers should be made to drive slower," it would indicate a
> _little_ less bias. But in the several years we've had these repeated
> discussions, that's never happened.
>
> Slow down, boys. You're just making yourself agitated by always
> trying to go faster, and you're not accomplishing anything productive
> with the time you save, if any.

Lol. Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
-----

- gpsman

 

[N8N]

On Mar 5, 6:38 am, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Mar 4, 1:04 pm, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>I can only dream of a 5 mpg advantage!
>
> > Drive 45 with your tailgate down.
>
> Hey what's the r.a.d. position on tailgates down?
>
> Don't do it!  It doesn't help and may hurt mpg.
>
> Putting a tonneau cover is about the best you can
> do or leave it stock and hope the air bubble in
> the bed helps keep air flow laminar as much as some
> automotive engineers claim.
>
> SMH

That squares with what I've heard as well; apparently the air in the
bed is "dead air" anyway so whether you have a tonneau or not makes
little difference. The tailgate apparently gives something of a Kamm
effect so it is actually beneficial.

I have a camper shell on my pickup so that I can carry car parts,
machine tools, etc. without worry about weather or sticky fingers, so
the decision has already been made for me in my case.

nate

 

[N8N]

On Mar 5, 9:52 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> In the suburbs you get the yuppies who consider you a lower life form

Heh. I love yuppies, I really do.

nate

 

[[email protected]]

On Mar 5, 12:51 pm, N8N <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 9:52 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In the suburbs you get the yuppies who consider you a lower life form
>
> Heh.  I love yuppies, I really do.
>
> nate

I love lots of yuppies. Some of them are my family. What can ya do...

 

[N8N]

On Mar 5, 12:53 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 12:51 pm, N8N <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 5, 9:52 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > In the suburbs you get the yuppies who consider you a lower life form
>
> > Heh.  I love yuppies, I really do.
>
> > nate
>
> I love lots of yuppies.  Some of them are my family.  What can ya do....

Show up at their house in jeans and a wifebeater carrying a six of
PBR? Cans, of course.

nate

(why yes, I *am* available to give advice on a whole range of awkward
social situations.)

 

[[email protected]]

On Mar 5, 12:57 pm, N8N <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 12:53 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 5, 12:51 pm, N8N <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 5, 9:52 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > In the suburbs you get the yuppies who consider you a lower life form
>
> > > Heh.  I love yuppies, I really do.
>
> > > nate
>
> > I love lots of yuppies.  Some of them are my family.  What can ya do....
>
> Show up at their house in jeans and a wifebeater carrying a six of
> PBR?  Cans, of course.
>
> nate
>
> (why yes, I *am* available to give advice on a whole range of awkward
> social situations.)

Oh, I have and do. Well, less the wifebeater - I'm a jeans & T-shirt
guy. I'm the one that moved to NH, drives a dented & scratched pickup
truck (often through the woods), and considers a beer or bourbon by an
outdoor fire the epitome of relaxation. I grew up partying in the
woods at keggers that people got to by truck, ATV or walking. People
rarely walked - that's why pickup trucks have beds!! Then again, I
have been called a yuppie and I do meet the definition at times. Oh
well...

 

[Ed Pirrero]

On Mar 4, 10:02 pm, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:51:47 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Mar 3, 7:19 pm, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:18:36 -0600, Tom Sherman
>
> >> Many drivers wish to project their self-worth through the car they
> >> drive. I've no problem with that. It helps me regard them as
> >> something less than human.  They're just plain "squishy turds in a
> >> can" when considering them collectively and caged.
>
> >Which, of course, you never say aloud in public.
>
> >It's easy to be a usenet hero.  It's harder IRL.
>
> The sticker clearly visible on my rear fender sums it up:
> CARS SUCK
>
> Another bike says: ANY IDIOT CAN DRIVE
>
> I've another that says: FUKENKARZ.
>
> I'm no Usenet hero so have probably disappointed at least seven
> posters and probably a few lurkers in <r.b.m> I've had the pleasure
> to meet, IRL.*

And we'd hear the refrain from them, I'm sure, "He's a nice guy."

Which means that you are indeed a usenet hero. Q.E.D.


> When I simply looked at a driver like an overflowing toilet and they
> give me the finger I know they got the message. My initial response
> was to grab my crotch. Fool pulls over, gets out and runs into the
> street. When he punched me in the back after I'd avoided hitting him,
> I had a feeling he might like to talk. After turning around and
> slowly coasting back along the sidewalk I started reciting his plate
> number aloud when within earshot. At twenty feet he bolted, got back
> into his coffin and fuktoff.

That's a nice fairy tale. I've heard those before.

On the internet, anyone can be tough AND good-looking.

> *IRL, lots of people know me as  Zoot Katz but mostly call me the
> same name as my mother did.

You're still anonymous, and still wrong about nym-shifting. But you
can attempt to PROVE that I nym-shifted. Go ahead, big talker.

E.P.

 

[Zoot Katz]

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 10:56:43 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> When I simply looked at a driver like an overflowing toilet and they
>> give me the finger I know they got the message. My initial response
>> was to grab my crotch. Fool pulls over, gets out and runs into the
>> street. When he punched me in the back after I'd avoided hitting him,
>> I had a feeling he might like to talk. After turning around and
>> slowly coasting back along the sidewalk I started reciting his plate
>> number aloud when within earshot. At twenty feet he bolted, got back
>> into his coffin and fuktoff.
>
>That's a nice fairy tale. I've heard those before.

Maybe you previously read an account of the incident.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Use your hacking skills to dig up the police report. I live in
Vancouver, BC.
>
>> *IRL, lots of people know me as  Zoot Katz but mostly call me the
>> same name as my mother did.
>
>You're still anonymous, and still wrong about nym-shifting. But you
>can attempt to PROVE that I nym-shifted. Go ahead, big talker.

Here, read my lips: GO FIST YOURSELF
I have no interest in exposing your sock puppets.

The nym Zoot Katz has been unchanged since I started posting to this
group in August 2000. I dropped the X-No_Archive field in October of
that year. My legal name isn't in the phone book either.
--
zk

 

[Ed Pirrero]

On Mar 5, 7:29 pm, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 10:56:43 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero
>
> Use your hacking skills to dig up the police report. I live in
> Vancouver, BC.

Hmm, that's not all that far away. I may have to come and pay you a
visit.


> >> *IRL, lots of people know me as Zoot Katz but mostly call me the
> >> same name as my mother did.
>
> >You're still anonymous, and still wrong about nym-shifting. But you
> >can attempt to PROVE that I nym-shifted. Go ahead, big talker.
>
> Here, read my lips: GO FIST YOURSELF

I can't wait until I there in person so I can here that come directly
from you piehole. It will be amusing.

> I have no interest in exposing your sock puppets.

That's because you can't. ROTFL!

I'll be in contact about the meet. I have relatives less than 90
miles from you, and I can't wait to see what kind of a really tough
guy you are in person.

E.P.

 

[Zoot Katz]

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:45:00 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Here, read my lips: GO FIST YOURSELF
>
>I can't wait until I there in person so I can here that come directly
>from you piehole. It will be amusing.
>
Be sure to use a good lube and maybe a latex glove.

>> I have no interest in exposing your sock puppets.
>
>That's because you can't. ROTFL!
>
>I'll be in contact about the meet. I have relatives less than 90
>miles from you, and I can't wait to see what kind of a really tough
>guy you are in person.

Traditionally, <van.general> twits like you are told to meet at Red
Robin's except they never show up.

Probably because mommy won't let them out of the house after dark.

It's just past nine. How's eleven sound?
--
zk

 

[Ed Pirrero]

On Mar 5, 9:17 pm, Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:45:00 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Here, read my lips: GO FIST YOURSELF
>
> >I can't wait until I there in person so I can here that come directly
> >from you piehole. It will be amusing.
>
> Be sure to use a good lube and maybe a latex glove.

Uh, I don't swing that way. But thanks for the "offer".

Like I said, I'll be in contact.

E.P.

 

[Zoot Katz]

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 22:29:20 -0800 (PST), Ed Pirrero
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Like I said, I'll be in contact.

I'll hold my bladder.
--
zk

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <512ae926-5efd-4bde-93c7-190212373131@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
N8N <[email protected]> writes:

>> I guess nothing gets resolved on Usenet.
>>
>> Oh, well.
> It won't get resolved IRL either until BOTH groups start actually
> playing by the rules.

I only play by the basic, Common Law RoW rules. And that's
just when there are other street users around who might be
affected by my deviation from them.

You know the basic RoW rules, dont'cha:

1) don't unsafely impinge on anyone else's line of
travel/safety zone

2) at major/minor street intersections, the street
with majority has the RoW

3) at intersections, the first one in gets to go first
(first come, first served)

4) when vehicles simultaneously approach an intersection,
the one on the right gets to go first (in North America)

RoW is always given, not taken at liberty.

> I get a definite vibe from the cycling group that their **** don't
> stink - oooh, cagers break the law all the time but most cyclists are
> responsible alert riders. BS! The average cyclist doesn't have a
> clue, much like the average driver.

I get a definite vibe from you drivers, too.

I have /never/ stolen the RoW from a driver.
If I did, I'd get pasted.

But I've had it stolen innumerable times from
me from drivers who think I don't matter simply
because I'm riding a bike instead of pointing a
car in some general direction. (Fortunately for
me, I'm alert to when they do that.)
Go figure.

Anyways, a lot of riders also drive cars. I guess the
attitudes of some of those folks are merely their
car-driving attitudes, carried over.

I don't drive, and never have. My attitude is simply
about letting people go kill themselves if they wanna.
As long as they don't kill me. And if they have to
pretend I'm in their way, that's an issue they'll have
to deal with. None o' my beeswax.

Actually, I do deeply feel the needless, thoughtless
loss of lives at the hands of stupido torpedoes.
I'm glad I'm not one of 'em.

Bikes are safer than cars. At least, when ridden
with a non-driving, bicycle-specific approach,
and the expectancy that you drivers won't respect
the basic RoW rules.

Drivers can be such a self-serving, self-centred
bunch of crybabies. It's most distasteful and
pathetic.

Cyclists can be such a self-serving, self-centred
bunch of crybabies. It's most distasteful and
pathetic.

Drivers can be cyclists, and vice verso.



--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <8c7431d5-f85a-44b6-a2cb-8d5f90710420@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Ed Pirrero <[email protected]> writes:

>> The difference, which seems to confuse the r.a.d. boys, is that
>> cyclist stupidity only rarely damages anyone else's person or
>> vehicle.  Motorist stupidity kills over 100 people per day in the US,
>> and keeps over 200,000 auto body repairmen employed full-time, fixing
>> the cars that aren't totaled.

> Don't pretend the consequences are equal.

??

Nobody's making such a pretension. The consequences of a
car/bike collision are certainly unequal, and not in
favour of the cyclist.

> And don't fall for your logical fallacy of the two wrongs.
> Wrong is wrong, no matter what the vehicle.

Yeah, bicycle riders are so prolifically & willingly
splattering themselves over the front-ends of motor cars.

We /want/ you to hit us, destroy our lives, and maybe
even kill us. We mindfully hurl our bikes against your
S-series Mercedes's and Lexus's and Porche Boxters, with
a mind to make life inconvenient for youse.

Bicycling is a conspiracy, to make you suckers buy more
cars, and waste more money & time.

Let's go car hunting. I know just the dogs to bring along.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[Ed Pirrero]

On Mar 6, 3:28 am, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <8c7431d5-f85a-44b6-a2cb-8d5f90710...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>         Ed Pirrero <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >> The difference, which seems to confuse the r.a.d. boys, is that
> >> cyclist stupidity only rarely damages anyone else's person or
> >> vehicle.  Motorist stupidity kills over 100 people per day in the US,
> >> and keeps over 200,000 auto body repairmen employed full-time, fixing
> >> the cars that aren't totaled.
> > Don't pretend the consequences are equal.
>
> ??

I didn't write that. Frank wrote that.

E.P.

 

[Stephen Harding]

N8N wrote:
> On Mar 5, 6:38 am, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Putting a tonneau cover is about the best you can
>>do or leave it stock and hope the air bubble in
>>the bed helps keep air flow laminar as much as some
>>automotive engineers claim.
>
> That squares with what I've heard as well; apparently the air in the
> bed is "dead air" anyway so whether you have a tonneau or not makes
> little difference. The tailgate apparently gives something of a Kamm
> effect so it is actually beneficial.
>
> I have a camper shell on my pickup so that I can carry car parts,
> machine tools, etc. without worry about weather or sticky fingers, so
> the decision has already been made for me in my case.

I put caps on my trucks. At one time I thought it helped
with fuel economy, but I've now read it probably doesn't
do much of anything.

Except for a cap specifically designed by the University of
??? engineering class to maximize fuel efficiency via minimal
drag.

Unfortunately, the cap sloped down towards the rear bumper
leading to a late 40's Hudson kind of look.

And of course, having a small opening in the back makes it
rather awkward actually using the bed to carry anything.

But as an engineering exercise, I guess it was a success.


SMH

 

[Tom Sherman]

Ed Pirrero wrote:
> On Mar 3, 6:51 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Brent P? wrote:
>>> In article <8d1ff144-be8d-409e-b119-6e99257d4...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Mar 2, 11:12 pm, [email protected] (Brent P)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Mar 1, 9:09 pm, [email protected] (Brent P) wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>>>>> I don't know where trucks actually go 55mph...
>>>>>> Up hills.
>>>>>> (Sheesh.)
>>>>> Not any of the hills around here.
>>>> Well THAT clears things up! The hills in Chicago don't slow
>>>> trucks, therefore there are no hills anywhere that slow trucks!
>>> Holy jump battman. I never said any such thing, but you know that.
>>>> I don't know why the highway departments around here wasted all the
>>>> money on those "7% grade" signs! They should have checked with racer-
>>>> boy!
>>> I dunno. The times I've driven through the hills and mountains on the way
>>> to and from NC and WV I don't recall the trucks dropping to 55mph...
>>> maybe my memory is off, that could be, but I think they kept it above
>>> 55mph for the most part. They certainly do through the hills of WI. Now
>>> they do slow, but 55mph seems to be a floor speed. I suppose there are
>>> some mountain roads out there where they slow to 45mph or something but
>>> that is still the limit of their vehicles, I have rarely seen truckers
>>> restrict themselves to 55mph.
>> In Colorado on I-70, I have passed trucks that were doing 15-20 mph
>> uphill. (I was doing about 40-45 mph, full throttle in 3rd gear, in a
>> Rabbit (Golf I).
>
> Brent lives in the flatlands and has no idea what mountains are like.
>
> Out here in the west, 18-wheelers often climb mt. passes at half the
> SL or less. Mostly, they are nice about restricting themselves to the
> right lane only.
>
> Sometimes, they are jerks and micropass at 25 mph in the right lane,
> and 27 mph in the left lane.
> [...]

And sometimes one truck drives on the shoulder to let a slightly faster
truck go by in the right lane.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

N8N aka Nate Nagel wrote:
> On Mar 5, 9:52 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In the suburbs you get the yuppies who consider you a lower life form
>
> Heh. I love yuppies, I really do.
>
Baked, boiled, grilled, deep fried...its all good.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

Stephen Harding wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mar 4, 1:04 pm, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I can only dream of a 5 mpg advantage!
>>>
>>
>> Drive 45 with your tailgate down.
>
> Hey what's the r.a.d. position on tailgates down?
>
> Don't do it! It doesn't help and may hurt mpg.
>
> Putting a tonneau cover is about the best you can
> do or leave it stock and hope the air bubble in
> the bed helps keep air flow laminar as much as some
> automotive engineers claim.
>
However, with the tailgate down, no one sees the "How's My Driving"
sticker.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

N8N aka Nate Nagel wrote:
> On Mar 5, 6:38 am, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Mar 4, 1:04 pm, Stephen Harding <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I can only dream of a 5 mpg advantage!
>>> Drive 45 with your tailgate down.
>> Hey what's the r.a.d. position on tailgates down?
>>
>> Don't do it! It doesn't help and may hurt mpg.
>>
>> Putting a tonneau cover is about the best you can
>> do or leave it stock and hope the air bubble in
>> the bed helps keep air flow laminar as much as some
>> automotive engineers claim.
>>
>> SMH
>
> That squares with what I've heard as well; apparently the air in the
> bed is "dead air" anyway so whether you have a tonneau or not makes
> little difference. The tailgate apparently gives something of a Kamm
> effect so it is actually beneficial.
>
> I have a camper shell on my pickup so that I can carry car parts,
> machine tools, etc. without worry about weather or sticky fingers, so
> the decision has already been made for me in my case.
>
The best part of topper is that you do not have to worry about your ****
flying out and hitting someone.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful