Scandium frame material



jrstevens

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Dec 22, 2004
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Anyone have opinions on Scandium frames specifically the Salsa Campeon road frame. I appreciate any comments.

James
 

Conniebiker

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Jan 1, 2005
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So far I have yet to personally ride one, but all the reviews I have seen are good. I have yet to see negative feedback on scandium.
 

jazeejeff

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Nov 8, 2004
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I ride a Fastrak RSC Lite scandium bike. Have been riding it for almost 4 yrs and still riding it. it went through one major crash and escape without much damage...but can't say the same for the owner. i suffered a hair line crack on the wrist. couldn't ride for a month.

this is only my second frame, so i can't compare with other frames. its light, durable and stiff. great for hills, but lose out on descents. which suits my riding style :rolleyes:

its not the most comfortable and can be quite harsh on rough surface. a carbon seatpost helps and i highly recommended it.

hope this helps.
 

RC2

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May 21, 2004
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Scandium = marketing. Scandium frames are aluminum. There are lots of alloying elements put into any aluminum frame. Ignore the marketing.
 

boudreaux

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Oct 16, 2003
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RC2 said:
Scandium = marketing. Scandium frames are aluminum. There are lots of alloying elements put into any aluminum frame. Ignore the marketing.
And despite the hype, Sc does give it some different and unique properties.
 

RC2

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May 21, 2004
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boudreaux said:
And despite the hype, Sc does give it some different and unique properties.

Sure... might be hard to add an alloying element to Alu or steel or *** w/o in some way changing the properties of the original alloy. But a scandium frame? C'mon.
 

boudreaux

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Oct 16, 2003
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RC2 said:
Sure... might be hard to add an alloying element to Alu or steel or *** w/o in some way changing the properties of the original alloy. But a scandium frame? C'mon.
There is no such thing as a Scandium frame...C'mon, Scandium in bike frames is nothing but 7xxx series alloy with a pinch of Sc in it.
 

jmoryl

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Sep 5, 2004
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boudreaux said:
There is no such thing as a Scandium frame...C'mon, Scandium in bike frames in nothing but 7xxx series alloy with a pinch of Sc in it.
Just like Reynolds or Columbus steel is just iron with a pinch of (add elements here).....
 

RC2

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May 21, 2004
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boudreaux said:
There is no such thing as a Scandium frame...C'mon, Scandium in bike frames in nothing but 7xxx series alloy with a pinch of Sc in it.

Oh my word, people, this isn't rocket science!

"Scandium frames" is marketing. Yes scandium is a real metal, Yes there is actually scandium as an alloying element along with whatever else the Al alloy contains. Yes, almost by definition it must change the frame's properties vs. with the Al alloy w/o it. Maybe it changes the properties perceptably (that would be Hard To Tell w/o having a side-by-side comparison of the "exact" bike with and without...and who's gonnan do that?). And most importantly Yes if you THINK an Alu alloy frame is better w/Scandium included, go buy one! Whatever floats yer boat!
 

RC2

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May 21, 2004
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I'm not sure WHY I'm wasting my time on this (perhaps it's because I'm procrasting writing employee reviews at work :mad: ) but this aughta convince anyone with a 'scandium' frame that they either have (1) an Alu frame w/a very small amount of scandium as an alloying element, or (2) can take their frame to the bank and retire early.

"Metallic scandium was first produced in 1937 and the first pound (0.45 kilograms) of pure scandium was produced in 1960. Scandium is a soft, light metal that might have applications in the aerospace industry. With a cost of $122,500 per pound, scandium is too expensive for widespread use.

Alloys of scandium and aluminum are used in some kinds of athletic equipment, such as aluminum baseball bats, bicycle frames and lacrosse sticks. It is expected that scandium-aluminum alloys will be important in the manufacture of fuel cells." From http://education.jlab.org
 

boudreaux

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Oct 16, 2003
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RC2 said:
I'm not sure WHY I'm wasting my time on this (perhaps it's because I'm procrasting writing employee reviews at work :mad: ) but this aughta convince anyone with a 'scandium' frame that they either have (1) an Alu frame w/a very small amount of scandium as an alloying element, or (2) can take their frame to the bank and retire early.

"Metallic scandium was first produced in 1937 and the first pound (0.45 kilograms) of pure scandium was produced in 1960. Scandium is a soft, light metal that might have applications in the aerospace industry. With a cost of $122,500 per pound, scandium is too expensive for widespread use.

Alloys of scandium and aluminum are used in some kinds of athletic equipment, such as aluminum baseball bats, bicycle frames and lacrosse sticks. It is expected that scandium-aluminum alloys will be important in the manufacture of fuel cells." From http://education.jlab.org
Well geeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzze, waste some more time and go read Easton's blurb on it.They are one of the ones using it in bike tubing.
 

RC2

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May 21, 2004
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boudreaux said:
Well geeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzze, waste some more time and go read Easton's blurb on it.They are one of the ones using it in bike tubing.

Did. Fault us both for wasting too much time I guess. Easton is selling the tubes though so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't tell us much other than why we should buy em.

[Now damnit RC2 get back to work so you can go home and ride]
 

jmoryl

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Sep 5, 2004
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RC2 said:
....I'm not sure WHY I'm wasting my time on this (perhaps it's because I'm procrasting writing employee reviews at work :mad: )...

I'm certainly glad that I am not one of the employees being evaluated....

In any case, people say Scandium as shorthand for "Al alloy using Sc as an alloy component". This has certain effects that do result in improved physical properties, so I can't see why you are so averse to someone mentioning it. And yes, I do have a very nice frame that uses tubes made with this alloy.

Joe
 

tafi

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Jul 31, 2003
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RC2 said:
Did. Fault us both for wasting too much time I guess. Easton is selling the tubes though so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't tell us much other than why we should buy em.

[Now damnit RC2 get back to work so you can go home and ride]
Scandium is used as a grain refining additive for Aluminium. It thus enhances maleability, integrity of welds and fatigue life of the aluminium. Also gives better strength (hence why scandium alloy rocket tail fins were the only ones capable of blasting through the polar ice cap). Yes it is still an aluminium alloy. There are a lot of them. But a scandium alloy's properties lend well to aerospace and sporting equipment where lightweight structures are required. I suggest you read through some engineering catalogues about material properties to see how many different steels and aluminiums there are and how different their properties actually are.
 

jrstevens

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Dec 22, 2004
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tafi said:
Scandium is used as a grain refining additive for Aluminium. It thus enhances maleability, integrity of welds and fatigue life of the aluminium. Also gives better strength (hence why scandium alloy rocket tail fins were the only ones capable of blasting through the polar ice cap). Yes it is still an aluminium alloy. There are a lot of them. But a scandium alloy's properties lend well to aerospace and sporting equipment where lightweight structures are required. I suggest you read through some engineering catalogues about material properties to see how many different steels and aluminiums there are and how different their properties actually are.
Wow; I didn't expect such a simple question would draw out so much passion. Prior to posting I realized that what I was referring to was AL frame with some Sc alloy. I have heard from some that frames of this type don't hold up very long from a durability perspective. I'm ~140 pounds and figured with carbon seatstays on the Salsa Campeon perhaps that would help extend the life of the frame past 1 year. I appreciate everyone's input thus far but am still curious if anyone has thrown their leg over a Salsa Campeon? I can get one from a QBP account dirt cheap but if it will only last a year then it doesn't work out to be a good investment. Thanks again,

JS
 

jmoryl

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Sep 5, 2004
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jrstevens said:
...... I'm ~140 pounds and figured with carbon seatstays on the Salsa Campeon perhaps that would help extend the life of the frame past 1 year. I appreciate everyone's input thus far but am still curious if anyone has thrown their leg over a Salsa Campeon? I can get one from a QBP account dirt cheap but if it will only last a year then it doesn't work out to be a good investment. Thanks again,

JS
No personal experience with a Salsa Campeon but you should certainly be able to get much more than one year out of any decent Al frame - the durability of Al frames (or lack thereof) has been misrepresented by many...
 

boudreaux

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Oct 16, 2003
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jrstevens said:
I have heard from some that frames of this type don't hold up very long from a durability perspective. I'm ~140 pounds and figured with carbon seatstays on the Salsa Campeon perhaps that would help extend the life of the frame past 1 year.
And some people and so called advice givers have boogers for brains.
 

dhk

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Sep 1, 2003
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boudreaux said:
And some people and so called advice givers have boogers for brains.
And some are just out to pimp for their favorite ore.
 

dolphdolton

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Dec 24, 2011
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Hi ive got a salsa campeon which is 7 years old and honestly its the best frame ive ever ridden ive got a pinarello and a raleigh 653 which are great but the campeon is quick very responsive you need a carbon seatpost and of course handbuilt wheels which in my mind is the best upgrade to any bike also im 225lbs so not a lightweight rider why salsa stopped making this model is beyond me its the dogs nuts in every respect not like most modern **** which is lifeless and has factory wheels which are ok but if your heavy like me will crack in time on the rims so i have to say although steel is king because of sheer comfort the salsa campeon is with me till it dies
 

MMMhills

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Nov 28, 2010
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Originally Posted by dolphdolton .

Hi ive got a salsa campeon which is 7 years old and honestly its the best frame ive ever ridden ive got a pinarello and a raleigh 653 which are great but the campeon is quick very responsive you need a carbon seatpost and of course handbuilt wheels which in my mind is the best upgrade to any bike also im 225lbs so not a lightweight rider why salsa stopped making this model is beyond me its the dogs nuts in every respect not like most modern **** which is lifeless and has factory wheels which are ok but if your heavy like me will crack in time on the rims so i have to say although steel is king because of sheer comfort the salsa campeon is with me till it dies

We have a winner for the oldest thread revived and longest sentence all in one post!!!