scandium or dedacciai 7003



domandmeara

New Member
Sep 30, 2003
1
0
0
hi,
can anyone advise on the relative characteristics/merits of these two types of aluminium frame please - or provide a link on the subject? I don't race but I want a light bike that will last a few years. I'm 6ft2 and about 160 pounds.
many thanks!
 
Don't know much about merits of 7003 but I do know why scandium is added to aluminium alloy. From what I've read, SC61.10A or otherwise known as scandmium is another aluminum alloy. Dedacciai ads SC61.10A 7003 aluminum to improve its yield point. This is the point in which it deforms permanently when stressed, and metals with low yield point deform easily and are relatively weak. The heat generated by the welder's torch degrade the structure of high-strength aluminum alloys, lowering their yield point. The addition of minute amounts (0.5%) of scandmium to aluminum alloy, typically 7000 series, inhibits this process and therefroe preserves much of its strength even after welding.
 
Originally posted by dennis dee
Don't know much about merits of 7003 but I do know why scandium is added to aluminium alloy. From what I've read, SC61.10A or otherwise known as scandmium is another aluminum alloy. Dedacciai ads SC61.10A 7003 aluminum to improve its yield point. This is the point in which it deforms permanently when stressed, and metals with low yield point deform easily and are relatively weak. The heat generated by the welder's torch degrade the structure of high-strength aluminum alloys, lowering their yield point. The addition of minute amounts (0.5%) of scandmium to aluminum alloy, typically 7000 series, inhibits this process and therefroe preserves much of its strength even after welding.

All true, but every 7000 series Al uses these trace alloys to maintain fine grain structure in the weld zones. Believe the more usual ones are Mn, Mg,Zn and Cu. Sc sounds great in ad copy though.

Rather than the differences in material properties, what makes the difference you can notice in a frame would be the wall thickness and dimensions of the 7000 tubing. Believe Sc is Easton's thinnest-wall tubeset lineup, so it would be used for the lightest and most flexy frames, where fatigue life isn't a concern.
 
Originally posted by dennis dee
Don't know much about merits of 7003 but I do know why scandium is added to aluminium alloy. From what I've read, SC61.10A or otherwise known as scandmium is another aluminum alloy. Dedacciai ads SC61.10A 7003 aluminum to improve its yield point. This is the point in which it deforms permanently when stressed, and metals with low yield point deform easily and are relatively weak. The heat generated by the welder's torch degrade the structure of high-strength aluminum alloys, lowering their yield point. The addition of minute amounts (0.5%) of scandmium to aluminum alloy, typically 7000 series, inhibits this process and therefroe preserves much of its strength even after welding.
LOL, another barge load of HOOEY!..... There is NO Scandium in SC 61.10A. That moniker was simply dreamed up by the Dedaccai maketing dept,to capitalize on Easton's product.
:rolleyes:
 
Material alone does not determine ride characteristics; geometry and other factors play a part, but I have a Dedacciai 7003 frame that is stiff, fast feeling, reasonably light (~1500g, frame only, 58cm, horizontal top tube), but also uncomfortable -- I can only ride on smooth roads.

I don't mind riding it, but I wouldn't buy another one without thouroughly test riding. Infact, I've busted two alu frames recently, so I'm never gunna spend good money on another alu frame.

I don't have experience with scandium.
 
Originally posted by nutbag


I don't mind riding it, but I wouldn't buy another one without thouroughly test riding. Infact, I've busted two alu frames recently, so I'm never gunna spend good money on another alu frame.

I don't have experience with scandium.
"scandium" is just the trace of fairy dust added to 7xxx series aluminum to give it fabled magical properties. There is a blurb on the easton site.
 
Originally posted by dhk
Believe Sc is Easton's thinnest-wall tubeset lineup, so it would be used for the lightest and most flexy frames, where fatigue life isn't a concern.
Not always true. There are different configurations,and diameter matters too. The Merckx Team SC has never been characterized as 'flexy'but it's also heavier than most Sc frames,that usually use the material to get the lightest weight possible.
 
Originally posted by boudreaux
LOL, another barge load of HOOEY!..... There is NO Scandium in SC 61.10A. That moniker was simply dreamed up by the Dedaccai maketing dept,to capitalize on Easton's product.
:rolleyes:

Not quite true! SC61.10A is a scandium aluminum alloy tubeset manufactured by Dedacciai. It's not the catchiest of names and that is why its come to be known as 'scandium' tubing. The 'SC' gives it away.
 
Originally posted by dennis dee
Not quite true! SC61.10A is a scandium aluminum alloy tubeset manufactured by Dedacciai. It's not the catchiest of names and that is why its come to be known as 'scandium' tubing. The 'SC' gives it away.

There are a number of blurbs around similar to the following from
http://www.sanobike.com/dedacciai.htm.

SC61.10A
SC61.10A has been incorrectly refered to a scandium tubeset by some. In fact, the SC61.10A set is 7003-T6. Dedacciai's 7003-T6 reaches ultimate tensile strengths of 470 N/mm2 and a surface hardness of 135HV, after solution treatment, arificial aging and precompression treatments (KET). Acting on alloys with high percentages of Cu-Zn-Mn, these treatments give high mechanical charcterisics and considerable resistance to the stresses which competition frames are subjected.


Since it's on the 'net' it must be right.

FWIW
7003 alloys are defined as:
Silicon (Si) 0.3 %
Iron (Fe) 0.35 %
Copper (Cu) 0.2 %
Manganese (Mn) 0.3 %
Magnesium (Mg) 0.5-1 %
Chromium (Cr) 0.2%
Zinc (Zn) 5-6.5 %
Titanium (Ti) 0.2%
Zirconium 0.05-0.25%
Others 0.05%
Remainder Aluminum

As was inferred in previous posts, in alloys where scandium is employed its main benefit is in providing greater leeway in the manufacturing process allowing more liberal welding techniques without recrystallization issues rather than improving the overall performance of the tubing material itself.
 
Originally posted by dennis dee
Not quite true! SC61.10A is a scandium aluminum alloy tubeset manufactured by Dedacciai. It's not the catchiest of names and that is why its come to be known as 'scandium' tubing. The 'SC' gives it away.
Yeah, smart guy SC gives it away. LOL. You fell for it too. Why don't you do a proper search or even check dedacciai's site.They do make a scandium tubeset, but it ain't SC61.10A!...
 
Originally posted by boudreaux
Yeah, smart guy SC gives it away. LOL. You fell for it too. Why don't you do a proper search or even check dedacciai's site.They do make a scandium tubeset, but it ain't SC61.10A!...

That's the problem with you - you do your homework using the Internet and you believe everything you read over the internet. What is worst is, you preach what you read over the Internet and claim you know better.... wat a fool. LOL

To improve your well-being as human and regenerate new brain neurons check out cycling weekly's article on Deddaccia's SC61.10A tubeset and why many smart-alecks like you get fooled by what they read on their site. Doesn't take a monkey to understand that.
 
Scandium is a metallic compound that is added to Aluminum to produce an alloy with better stress properties. Easton beat everyone in introducing a scandium-based alloy, hence, Easton springs to mind when scandium is mentioned. Easton has in fact several scandium-based tubeset like their latest GX9. Dadacciai SC61.10A uses the same technology and is essentially a scandium-based alloy. Call it GX9, SC61.10A or generically refer to it as 7003-T6 or call it scandium for Pete's sakes. Get the picture!
 
Originally posted by dennis dee
Scandium is a metallic compound that is added to Aluminum to produce an alloy with better stress properties. Easton beat everyone in introducing a scandium-based alloy, hence, Easton springs to mind when scandium is mentioned. Easton has in fact several scandium-based tubeset like their latest GX9. Dadacciai SC61.10A uses the same technology and is essentially a scandium-based alloy. Call it GX9, SC61.10A or generically refer to it as 7003-T6 or call it scandium for Pete's sakes. Get the picture!
There is no Scandium in SC61.10A, just like there is no Uranium in U2,but U2 IS the dedacciai Sc tubeset.
 
This is all true there is no Scandium on Deda's SC tubing. It forms only a part of the model number and bears no resemblance to the actual constituents of the alloy. If it had Scandium in it you would also think that Dedacciai would actually say something about it but they don't.
A few magazines like Cycling weekly and a magazine here in Australia have also been fooled by the serial number. I wouldn't thus be treating any bike magazine as gospel either just because it's printed.
Further to this Scandium, the element, is a grain refining additive it is not a strengthening additive. Scandium allows the use of particular higher strength alloys which cannot normally be drawn into thin walled tubes as required in a bike frame. It also has the benefit of allowing a more refined grain structure on cooling around welded areas. This makes for stronger welded joints and thinner profile tubed frames.
 
Originally posted by tafi

Further to this Scandium, the element, is a grain refining additive it is not a strengthening additive.
Smith and Wesson and some others have a different take on that aspect. S&W for years,has made lightweight revolver frames out of aluminum alloys. They were never strong enough to handle anything but relatively low pressure ammo types. The use of scandium alloys increases strength to the point where much higher pressure magnum ammo can be used, and frame size remains the same.
 
Originally posted by boudreaux
Smith and Wesson and some others have a different take on that aspect. S&W for years,has made lightweight revolver frames out of aluminum alloys. They were never strong enough to handle anything but relatively low pressure ammo types. The use of scandium alloys increases strength to the point where much higher pressure magnum ammo can be used, and frame size remains the same.

As I said the use of scandium ALLOWS the use of high strength alloys which wouldn't normaly be able to be drawn or forged (whatever) into fine structures BECAUSE it refines he grain size.

The alloy is already high strength but the addition of scandium allows for the manufacture of lighter finer structures out of it, like bike frames and (I guess - I'm not keen on guns) gun frames.
 
Originally posted by tafi


The alloy is already high strength but the addition of scandium allows for the manufacture of lighter finer structures out of it,
That does not compute.