scheduling vo2max and threshold intervals

[whoawhoa]

Okay, this is a question I've had for a while regarding my training schedule. The vast majority of my interval sessions are either vo2max (5x5's lately) or threshold workouts (usually 2x20's).

In each phase of training, what is the best ratio of threshold to vo2max workouts, assuming my capabilities at each duration are similar. I usually schedule them 1:1, but I'm afraid this doesn't let me concentrate specifically on each one specifically enough.

So, what should I do during:

1. A long base type period.

2. A several week long, structured training block preparing for a goal race.

3. During a maintenance type period while racing fairly often.

Last winter, in my base period, I did mostly threshold work. But since then, in periods like 2 and 3, It's been threshold mixed pretty evenly with v02max.

Thanks in advance for any help, I know its sort of a complicated question.

 

[frenchyge]

I tend to build toward the higher workouts. My rationale for this is 1) better fitness (good aerobic recovery, high ability to resist fatigue, optimal circulation, etc.) is needed to endure those higher intensity workouts, 2) high intensities put more stress on the body, forcing a reduction in overall volume, and 3) the high end fitness adaptations tend to dwindle fastest during any unexpected lapses in training due to illness, injury or travel. Those are based on nothing more than the fact that they seem about right, so if anyone knows different please enlighten me.

That said, I would have a higher ratio of threshold to VO2 workouts during the early phases and transition to a lower ratio in the later phases. I may be 1:1 in the later half of phase #2 and phase #3, but would probably do very little (if any) VO2 work in phase #1. Just my uneducated two cents.

 

[SolarEnergy]

Ouff, that is a difficult question that has more than one good answer in my opinion. Frenchyge is probably right.

Me, in general, I like it the other way around. I like to build VO2Max progression rather steep, and early in the specific preparation phase. It is not that difficult to maintain afterward. I find that givin good speed and power early in sp phase gives interesting weapons to the athletes to do better in longer sustained efforts.

And by increasing their speed rather early in the season, I know they will start their longer "race tempo" rides, to fast in the first half. And that is exactly what I expect from them earlier in the season.

But honestly, that is probably personal preference.

And to me, these zones, they are all inter-related anyway. One may be use to improve the other and vice-versa.

If an athlete is at the begining of his career, then during the first couple of years, I will plan to develop both during the whole season.

For kids, I tend to avoid overloading the aerobic system too much. I am more like a mother for them so to speak

 

[whoawhoa]

Ouff, that is a difficult question that has more than one good answer in my opinion. Frenchyge is probably right.

Me, in general, I like it the other way around. I like to build VO2Max progression rather steep, and early in the specific preparation phase. It is not that difficult to maintain afterward. I find that givin good speed and power early in sp phase gives interesting weapons to the athletes to do better in longer sustained efforts.

And by increasing their speed rather early in the season, I know they will start their longer "race tempo" rides, to fast in the first half. And that is exactly what I expect from them earlier in the season.

But honestly, that is probably personal preference.

And to me, these zones, they are all inter-related anyway. One may be use to improve the other and vice-versa.

If an athlete is at the begining of his career, then during the first couple of years, I will plan to develop both during the whole season.

For kids, I tend to avoid overloading the aerobic system too much. I am more like a mother for them so to speak

Just to clarify, since they may be important, I am a kid (15), and have been training "hard" (intervals and hard group rides weekly) for just over a year.

To what extent do the training zones cross over? If I do a high volume of z5 work versus a high volume of z4 work, will the differences be pretty small?

And, I guess my biggest question is this: Can you make significant gains in both vo2max and threshold power in the same training block?

 

[frenchyge]

Just to clarify, since they may be important, I am a kid (5), and have been training "hard" (intervals and hard group rides weekly) for just over a year.

Well, I must say, you're well spoken for a 5 yr-old. Those must be interesting group rides.

 

[whoawhoa]

Well, I must say, you're well spoken for a 5 yr-old. Those must be interesting group rides.

I'm actually nearly 6....

Okay, I corrected that typo. 15. Which I guess still qualifies me as a kid.

 

[whoawhoa]

Just to clarify, since they may be important, I am a kid (15), and have been training "hard" (intervals and hard group rides weekly) for just over a year.

To what extent do the training zones cross over? If I do a high volume of z5 work versus a high volume of z4 work, will the differences be pretty small?

And, I guess my biggest question is this: Can you make significant gains in both vo2max and threshold power in the same training block?

Okay, I think the answer to my last question I can get on my own and I would say it's yes, but are the gains greater than if one does shorter blocks solely focusing on threshold or v02max work.

 

[frenchyge]

Okay, I corrected that typo. 15. Which I guess still qualifies me as a kid.

Thank goodness. I could just imagine the pileup when all those training wheels get caught up together. Oh the humanity!

 

[frenchyge]

Okay, I think the answer to my last question I can get on my own and I would say it's yes, but are the gains greater than if one does shorter blocks solely focusing on threshold or v02max work.

Check out the chart on page 20 of this document. It should answer all of those questions: http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/PowerTrainingChapter.pdf

 

[SolarEnergy]

Just to clarify, since they may be important, I am a kid (15), and have been training "hard" (intervals and hard group rides weekly) for just over a year.

To what extent do the training zones cross over? If I do a high volume of z5 work versus a high volume of z4 work, will the differences be pretty small?

And, I guess my biggest question is this: Can you make significant gains in both vo2max and threshold power in the same training block?

Hi,

To me, at age 15, you are probably no longer a kid. But that depends on your development rate, and your past athletic background. I'm not an age group coach myself, but I have witness, over 8 years, a lot of age group training, specially in swimming. And many young swimmers, 14yo and more, where trained very hard. So I would consider you more like a junior athlete, than a kid.

But again, that depends on your development.

That being said, juniors are should not be trained like adults. At your age, weight lifting as part of your cycling program should be avoid. In fact, anything that puts great deal of stress on your bones should be avoid. Sprints, as a mean of developping pure speed can be performed, can and should be performed.

Now to answer your question, it is fairly easy to reach our VO2Max genetic limitation. So for an athlete your age (considering that you still have a many years to come in cycling), I would not be in a hurry to develop it to its full extend. In my opinion, no more than 1 workout a week should be devoted to this. Group rides, windy condition, hills, races will also develop it. Even once every two weeks can be good also.

Here is an expample of a workout that can improve both aspects :
3X5k intervals performed at 85% or your working heart rate
Active recovery = 1 min, 1 min and 10 minutes
then, after the 10min recovery, you do one more 5k, all out effort.

This is an example where a little bit of VO2max is done at the end of a LT workout.

Note : I'm not familiar yet with power based work. Probably Frenchyge can translate this example, givin it power based % instead of HR %

VO2Max stuff can be mixed with LT, and sprint workouts as well. That way, you don't have to dedicate a complete workout to VO2Max as often.

But if possible, you should consider gettin in touch with a coach. Because it is a bit difficult for us to transmit information 100% relevant to you, without actually knowing you.

Bottom line, if a young man your age is satisfied with his improvement curve, and results in races, without having to overload aerobic too much, I am not going to stress that aspect. Sooner or later, there will be a time where more serious work will be required. Until then, do well in school, sleep well, eat well, and most important, have fun.

 

[robkit]

i think LT intervals will help to maintain VO2max fitness but that VO2max intervals wont be so good at maintaining LT.

i would say do the VO2stuff first - build the engine capacity. then switch to mostly LT intervals, increasing the amount of that capacity you can use sustainably, meanwhile maintaining the VO2max fitness.

 

[whoawhoa]

Thanks for the replies. The benefits chart is awesome, really informative.

Robkit: curious as to why you think threshold work holds up vo2max better than vo2max work holds up threshold. Maybe because vo2max workouts are usually shorter? I can see a benefit to concentrating on vo2max efforst first though.