School Bus - How Wrong Am I???

[HenryLaRoy]

My point is that, school buses have an obligation to recognize the limits of their statutory privilege, and ought not to abuse it. If you assume that I overlooked the possibility of unforeseeable risk- you could say the same for the bus driver who made unscheduled and all too frequent stops (never mind the speeding).

If you felt that the school bus was being operated in an unsafe or unacceptable manner, getting the number of the bus and reporting the driver would be the responsible thing to do. Having been in the same situation more than once, I disagree that buses "have an obligation to recognize the limits of their statutory privilege". I think we as bikers, drivers or whatever, have to respect shool bus laws even if we respect nothing else. You might not put anyone at danger if you violate these laws, you might not be noticed violating these laws, there may be no downside what so ever, but even if that's the case, don't expect anyone to congradulate you for breaking these laws be your reasons ever so commendable.

I think the title of your post implies that you know what you did crossing a line most of us hold sacred for a selfish and immature reason. Your first paragraph confirms it. Your arguement that two wrongs makes a right is just wrong headed. The position that society is to blame for raising fat lazy kids (and that culling the herd through traffic accidents will make the rest stronger) is just disturbing.

Scheduled stop or not, a vehicle on the road has to stop for a school bus when it lets out passengers. A number of reasonable suggestions were offered. You could have walked your bike past the bus, you could have found a side street, you could have turned around. Instead you had a hissy fit.

The popular defense for your action seems to be that the bus driver was more wrong (for speeding, after you failed to stop), Well, best case scenario... that gives you the silver medal in the Wet Diaper Contest.

 

[scotty72]

The position that society is to blame for raising fat lazy kids (and that culling the herd through traffic accidents will make the rest stronger) is just disturbing.

Was this suggested, or were you deliberately misconstruing what was offered?

No-one suggested we adopt a plan of culling dumb kids through Darwin's Law. What was suggested was that wrapping kids up in cotton wool is no decent way of preparing them for the rough and tumble of society (perhaps the lefties will come out and say that society should not be rough, and we should all hug each other and sing warm & fuzzy songs to each warm our hearts).

Society is rough, get over it.

Protecting kids from the everyday world is no substitute for preparing them to deal with it.

Scotty

 

[meehs]

Instead you had a hissy fit...

Exactly when did the OP have the "hissy fit"? When he carefully looked to make sure everything was clear and then went to the opposite side of the road and went by the bus on the sidewalk? Is that what you're calling a hissy fit? I'm confused. I'm not trying to divert blame to the bus driver but it's obvious who had the "hissy fit"! Another poster said something about "bike rage"??? Again, exactly when was the OP "raging"??? Hissy fits? Bike rage? You guys are the ones having hissy fits and raging over nothing. Talk about wet diapers! LOL!

 

[scotty72]

Exactly when did the OP have the "hissy fit"? When he carefully looked to make sure everything was clear and then went to the opposite side of the road and went by the bus on the sidewalk? Is that what you're calling a hissy fit? I'm confused. I'm not trying to divert blame to the bus driver but it's obvious who had the "hissy fit"! Another poster said something about "bike rage"??? Again, exactly when was the OP "raging"??? Hissy fits? Bike rage? You guys are the ones having hissy fits and raging over nothing. Talk about wet diapers! LOL!

well said. Good dog

 

[FrankBattle]

I'm not innocent when it comes to being impatient during a ride- I'll admit that up front. Like most or all of us, I hate having the tempo of a ride repeatedly broken up for any reason. So, to purposely avoid this, I make it a point to ride in spots where the likelihood of stoppages is almost a non-issue.

Until today ...

I ended up behind a school bus in a nice residential area where I ride frequently- The bus stopped, I stopped behind it and waited - one kid got off! Two houses down, the bus stopped again - I stopped again, one kid got off.

This happened twice more and I had it - I put my head on a swivel, hit up the sidewalk on the opposite side and breezed the bus (I know, it's not cool!).

*just trying to make sure I didn't misunderstand the post*

You know it's not cool. The bus driver was way wrong too. But you started it, no? Had you been a wee bit more patient, this would not have happened.

*might you have been more patient if, say, 3 kids got off at each stop?*
*Do you have kids?*

(stumped as to why this is so difficult to understand - You messed up .. first. Then the bus driver messed up too.)

 

[3_days]

Quite frankly, I really didn't think anything of the situation until the bus driver acted out.

The "hissy fit" suggestion is ridiculous. I coasted by the bus on the opposite sidewalk at walking speed with no ill intent. So I didn't actually pick my bike up and walk- but a jogger could have easily passed me at the pace I'm describing.

What I wonder is, for those that condemn the action, I doubt you would be as critical if you witnessed it. I mean, seriously, picture the scene:

you fall in step behind a bus, no problem. I'm prepared to yield entirely to the bus. He stops, I stop - clip out. His lights stay on but he pulls out - stops shortly. Clip in, clip out, I stop- I wait. One kid gets out - the bus sits for a while beyond that. Lights stay on - he starts to pull away - stops short- clip in/out (repeat 2x more) ...

Now at this point, JohnO wants me to turn around but that puts me on a main route that I don't feel safe riding. I tolerate the main route for a 1/4 mile stretch to get me to the hills/bike route I like to ride ... which was where I was heading. Otherwise, it's forward or backward.

SO ... the bus sits - no kids are getting on or off. I put my head on a swivel - one leg push with my weight on my hands to the opposite sidewalk where I ride 4-5 mph to the crest of the hill 200+ yards from the bus.

As I drop toward the downhill, he's laying on the horn!!! I see him make another stop - then guns after me toward a series of 4way stops.

Now REALLY - I admit some "technical" wrong doing - are my actions still so horrific?

Would it have been okay of I jumped off the bike and ran to the opposite side of the street on foot, thereby eliminating the "vehicle" issue? I think that allows the technicality to defeat the purpose.

I think this example shows how common sense can still bend the statute and prevail.

No one has addressed the fact that I may have been in a risky blind spot ... don't I have an obligation to remove myself from this risk?

What if I would've sided up to the bus to see if he was having mechanical problems? If not, then to ask if I might pass???

 

[3_days]

Having been in the same situation more than once, I disagree that buses "have an obligation to recognize the limits of their statutory privilege". I think we as bikers, drivers or whatever, have to respect shool bus laws even if we respect nothing else. You might not put anyone at danger if you violate these laws, you might not be noticed violating these laws, there may be no downside what so ever, but even if that's the case, don't expect anyone to congradulate you for breaking these laws be your reasons ever so commendable.

I think the title of your post implies that you know what you did crossing a line most of us hold sacred for a selfish and immature reason. Your first paragraph confirms it. Your arguement that two wrongs makes a right is just wrong headed.

No I disagree - if for no other reason because, in retrospect, I believe the driver was acting purposely and belligerently.

I believe that bus drivers do have the responsibility to obide by job mandates and reasonable behavior. If the school district outlines where a bus stop should be made and how a bus should be driven, the bus driver should follow these mandates. If you defer to the legislative judgment that created the traffic laws/cyclists, then you should defer to the mandates set by legislators in designating school bus operation and stopping points. These points were mapped out for the safety and consideration of all involved. I'm saying that the driver abused his position to the detriment of others, assuming that he can/will act at his want- simply because he drives a school bus. There are practical considerations to consider as well.

Everybody has an obligation to act reasonably under any given set of circumstances. A school bus driver has an obligation to follow policies and practices and should not over-step boundaries simply because traffic laws might allow it.

 

[astroluc]

2) The drunk driver/bus fire argument is a fine example of an awfully strained analogy- usually used by politicians without real world experience. It be like arguing to make game hunting illegal because people use guns to commit crimes. Not that I'm gun friendly, but just an example to show how that argument sucks.

If you were referring to my statement at all, I merely meant it as a comparison regarding level of threat (Weight[Mass] + Speed + Control[awareness]) you pose as opposed to
the most extreme antithesis I could think of; not some "think of the children!!" knee jerk reaction...

...anyway...


...bus driver = wrong for speeding
you (cyclist) = technically wrong for passing a school bus (you are considered a vehicle in most municipalities)
who is more wrong?? I say the bus driver.

In my experience, a lot of SBDs are on power-trips because they are the end-all-be-all in regards to traffic laws... all other vehicles must yield to the under punishment of law. I feel this is too extreme... perhaps I am bias, as when I was in school, I lived too close (yet more than a mile and a half) to be deemed worthy of a bus pick-up; I rode my bike or walked to and from school from 2nd grade to HS Graduation (except for 3 horrible years from 6th to 8th grade)...

... umm, sure.

 

[cadence230]

Next time take water baloons and lob em' at the little fat asses as they get on or off.

 

[astroluc]

Would it have been okay of I jumped off the bike and ran to the opposite side of the street on foot, thereby eliminating the "vehicle" issue? I think that allows the technicality to defeat the purpose.

I jump off my bike to cross a busy road (at a cross walk or other pedestrian crossing), on occation, and declare "I am a pedestrian now and no longer a vehicle, I have the right of way!" and then point out the cars that do not stop, saying "$500 fine... $500 fine", as the fine is for not yielding to pedestrians is in my community. Silly, yes; wrong, no... but sometimes your adrenaline and endorphins are flowing on a ride

 

[wiredued]

Doesn't sound like crime of the century I ussually wait at the corner til my kid gets on the bus and while traffic is stopped I cross in front of the school bus. It never bothers the bus driver when I'm on my bike but one time while I was waiting in my van I crossed in front with my van forgetting that I was not on my bike and he warned my kid that it is a $250 fine. Never did that again but still do it on my bike with no complaints.

 

[Road Buzz]

I read this thread yesterday and was thinking about it all day today... and TX101's question about the difference between school bus laws in US and Europe. When I was stationed in Belgium--which, like the rest of Europe, has no obligatory stop for cars following--the driver would reach out and wave you bye before clogging the lane to unload... surely the SBD could have done that in this case.

I think that you're action was right on track... just as they would for a que of cars, they should have waved you bye if they knew they had several stops coming up... I'm just impressed by your 25 mph out-run of a 7,000lb vehicle--good work !

 

[3_days]

If you were referring to my statement at all, I merely meant it as a comparison regarding level of threat (Weight[Mass] + Speed + Control[awareness]) you pose as opposed to
the most extreme antithesis I could think of; not some "think of the children!!" knee jerk reaction...

I wasn't referring to your statement because I agree with what you said. Another poster compared the situation to a drunk driver rear ending a school bus and killing children and I felt it was unfair to compare my situation to that. No worries - and sorry if I wasn't clear on that one.

I'm just impressed by your 25 mph out-run of a 7,000lb vehicle--good work !

It was downhill!!!