Schumacher positive



whiteboytrash

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Bro Deal said:
Schumacher probably did not use CERA anymore after Ricco was busted. By the time the Olympics rolled around, his form was down because of that. I wonder why he did not fake an injury and drop out of the Tour after Ricco was caught. It would be funny if a blood sample from the end of the TdF is what caught Schumacher.


So why was Schuey going on those balls to wall attacks in the mountains after Ricco's P ? Maybe he was trying to show everyone he was really **** and couldn't last on the mountains ?
 

RdBiker

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doctorSpoc said:
i stand corrected... i saw the initial reports in the press...
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/tour-update-no-secret-molecule-in-cera--17695



that's the thing... if a guy like armstrong wants to come back... just pay a chemist to move a carbon here, a few hydrogens there and BOOM undetectable... and you can also beat the longitudinal testing.. you can't go to the corner store to buy it anymore but, hey if you can generate millions off of a tour win then it's probably worth it...

It's actually quite risky to play with different isomers of the same molecule, especially if you are the first one to try that. Also, the doctors probably don't as sophisticated equipment to manufacture the molecules as for example the medical companies have. When you manufacture molecules you're bound to get some different isomers which might be even lethal.
For example in some cases the other isomer of a molecule is cure for some disease but the other isomer kills you. And it might just be a question of how the different atoms are positioned relative to each other in the molecule.
 

Grater

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adamastor said:
Now let me put in my "humble opinion" :D


Kirchen: I really do not believe it, as he is one of those few really standing out against doping (at least in his interviews). If he is among the guilty ones, than he's a true cheat and a f...ing liar. Don't want to hear from him anymore. No excuse, especially not at Columbia.
If Kirchen is clean (or not caught with Cera), it's the second time he comes second in a stage to a "doped" rider ( Vinokourov in 2007 - Schumacher in 2008). In other words, he has probably won 2 stages without ever having won one, hahaha.
Kirchen is clean. It's unfortunate that Vino and Schumacher have screwed him regarding winning stages.
 

Grater

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doctorSpoc said:
fired by who? isn't gerolstiener officially defunct? do you mean fired by gerolstiener of quickstep? bettini must be laughing his mo-fo ass off...

i think cancellara, kirchen and the schleck bros might be a big candidates... voight's performance was a little outrageous as well... but cancellara and kirchen missing the worlds kinda stands out like a sore thumb..
Kirchen's performance was not outrageous. He died off after the first 10 days. He peaked too early and couldn't keep up with the main guys in the mountain. If he held that form and kept up with them, then yes, I would be suspicious. But the fact that he died off just like Valverde tells me that both of them peaked way too early and were clean. Kirchen held his form through Switzerland and prior to that.
 

thunder

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Grater said:
Kirchen's performance was not outrageous. He died off after the first 10 days. He peaked too early and couldn't keep up with the main guys in the mountain. If he held that form and kept up with them, then yes, I would be suspicious. But the fact that he died off just like Valverde tells me that both of them peaked way too early and were clean. Kirchen held his form through Switzerland and prior to that.

get your hand off it Grates.

You must admit, you aint exactly an impartial observer
 

poulidor

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Bad news for autologus transfusion user, Bordry has proclaimed that they will test for it when the test will be ready.

Tour de France: l'AFDL a des "indices sérieux" d'auto-transfusions sanguines
BERLIN, 8 oct 2008 (AFP), 13:14


L'Agence française de lutte contre le dopage (AFLD) a des "indices sérieux" de cas d'auto-transfusions sanguines lors du dernier Tour de France et mènera des contrôles dès que possible pour les prouver, a indiqué son chef Pierre Bordry mercredi.

"Nous sommes en possession d'indices sérieux de cas d'auto-transfusions sanguines. Nous dirons seulement plus tard de qui il s'agit", a-t-il déclaré à la télévision allemande ZDF, selon un communiqué de la chaîne.

Les enquêteurs antidopage se concentrent sur la recherche de traces de CERA (une EPO retard) "mais nous pourrons bientôt aussi grâce au nouveau procédé prouver les auto-transfusions, et nous allons alors effectuer ces tests", a-t-il ajouté.

Pour l'instant il n'existe aucun test pour détecter l'auto-transfusion. Les recherches en cours n'indiquent pas qu'une telle méthode sera disponible très rapidement.

Une trentaine de cyclistes sont dans la ligne de mire, dont les échantillons prélevés avant le début du Tour tendaient à montrer certaines anomalies, a dit M. Bordry. Les coureurs et leurs responsables avaient alors été informés, a-t-il précisé.

Chez certains de ces cyclistes, les taux se sont ensuite normalisés pendant le Tour. "Certains coureurs soupçonnés sont revenus à des niveaux normaux. Mais c'était étonnant de voir à quel point leurs performances sont alors devenues faibles", a dit M. Bordry.

Non détectables par les analyses, les auto-transfusions peuvent être en revanche être répérées via le passeport sanguin et les variations des valeurs hématologiques.

© 2008 AFP source :ffc.fr
 

poulidor

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The automate translation
Tour de France: AFDL has "serious" self-blood transfusions
BERLIN, Oct 8 2008 (AFP) 13:14


The French Agency for the fight against doping (AFLD) has "serious" cases of self-blood transfusions during the last Tour de France and will carry out checks as soon as possible to prove, said his chief Pierre Bordry Wednesday .

"We have evidence of cases of self-blood transfusions. We only later say who they are," he told German television ZDF, according to a release of the chain.

The anti-doping investigators focus on finding traces of CERA (a delay EPO) but we will soon also through the new process demonstrate the self-transfusion, and we will then conduct these tests, "he added.

For the moment there is no test to detect self-transfusion. Current research does not indicate that such a method will be available very soon.

Thirty cyclists are in the firing line, including samples taken before the start of the Tour tended to show certain anomalies, "said Bordry. The riders and their leaders had been informed, he said.

In some of these cyclists, the rates were then standardized during the Tour. "Some riders suspected returned to normal levels. But it was amazing to see how their performances are then become weak," said Bordry.

Not detectable by analysis, self-transfusion may be, however, be found via the blood passport and changes in hematologic values.
 

Rolfrae

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poulidor said:
The automate translation
So who were the certain riders who started strong but faded as their blood levels returned to normal? Valverde? Kirchen?
 

Bro Deal

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Rolfrae said:
So who were the certain riders who started strong but faded as their blood levels returned to normal? Valverde? Kirchen?
Evans faded some.
 

earth_dweller

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Rolfrae said:
So who were the certain riders who started strong but faded as their blood levels returned to normal? Valverde? Kirchen?
I think Valverde has scaled back tremendously on his doping regimen since OP hit. On a purely scientific basis, I do woner what he's given up and how his body was impacted by it.
 

MintID

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If they can test for blooddoping, will armstrong still return to cycling?
 

doctorSpoc

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earth_dweller said:
I think Valverde has scaled back tremendously on his doping regimen since OP hit. On a purely scientific basis, I do woner what he's given up and how his body was impacted by it.

+1 his performances look a lot like a guy who's keeping his nose clean... anyone with ability should be able to perform above the fray in the 1st few days of a tour when they are fresh...

at least in the tour anyway... who knows, maybe he got a letter after the Daulphine and got off of the stuff..
 

whiteboytrash

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I'm going home tonight to re-watch the Tour and see if I can play "transfusion bingo" and guess which riders will be pinged. Should be fun. CSC riders only score 1 point each because its so obvious.
 

Anticyclone

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Didnt Valverde only have one bad day when he lost quite a lot of time on the Hautacam stage? That was only a few days after a crash so maybe that an effect. His performances in the Alps were good.
 

Grater

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thunder said:
get your hand off it Grates.

You must admit, you aint exactly an impartial observer
After reading what was written today about suspect riders and how they faded badly, I'm now not as confident regarding Kirchen as I was.
 

El Loto

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Although Kirchen is no mountain goat. The stages to Plumelec and Super Besse suited him. Then again since when was Kirchen that good a time trialler? Since June?

I'm terribly excited about the blood transfusion test. Maybe a French rider can win the Tour now. Of course if a Frenchie beats Lance then it's a bigger conspiracy than 9/11.
 

Rolfrae

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whiteboytrash said:
I'm going home tonight to re-watch the Tour and see if I can play "transfusion bingo" and guess which riders will be pinged. Should be fun. CSC riders only score 1 point each because its so obvious.
How did Blood Bingo go? Come up with any names to add to the rumour mill? I was thinking Styn Devolder? He went from being a mooted top ten finish to a DNF.