Scientology's advertising in these newsgroups



There is no freedom in any religion that seeks to exclude, whether the
exclusion is because of money, race, sexual orientation, or any of those
powder keg topics being tossed about today. I personally don't have the
money nor the inclination to work hard enough to become a Scientologist.

What I am doing is defending Mike, a regular posting member of our NG,
All-Faiths.

--
Maris

Follow your bliss! (Joseph Campbell)


"Marko Proberto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
However, that freedom is not found in the Kriminal Kult of $cientology.

Just ask Lisa MacPherson.

"Maris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Exactly. We have the freedom to believe whatever we like.
>
> --
> Maris
>
> Follow your bliss! (Joseph Campbell)
>
>
> "jake" <nospamhere@all> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:35:15 -0700, Chris Leithiser
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Ria wrote:
> >>
> >> > I take these anti-Scientology posts with the same grain of salt as I
> take
> >> > the fundamentalist ravings that occasionally appear here and there.
> >>
> >> you might not if you followed up the links.
> >>
> >> ignore the humorlessness of the posts, they do have a point about the
> >> Church's policies and values.
> >
> >Start _here_ with the cult's despicable behavior after 9/11:
> >http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/20010911-tragedy/
> >
> >And then _here_ for how they treat their own members:
> >http://www.lisamcpherson.org
>
> The Catholic Church have a lot to answer for too..
> are catholics going to be pack attacked every time they post?
> whatever happened to freedom of worship?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 
On 22 Sep 2003 17:17:02 -0700, [email protected] (Ria) wrote:

>> I take these anti-Scientology posts with the same grain
>> of salt as I take the fundamentalist ravings that occasionally
>> appear here and there.

I take the torture and homicide of people seriously. Far too many
Scientologists have been killed or maimed due to Scientology and
Scientology Inc. Objecting to Scientology Inc.'s crimes and human
rights abuses isn't a form of "raving:" we speak up because we insist
that Scientologists must still be allowed to exercise their civil and
human rights: rights Scientology Inc. refuses to conceed to their
customers.

> you might not if you followed up the links.

http://holysmoke.org/pc/pc.htm tells of the FBI's discovery that
Scientology Inc. framed a writer for felonies, and eventually tried to
murder her. Surely this is important, yes?

> ignore the humorlessness of the posts, they do have a point
> about the Church[sic]'s policies and values.

It is Scientology Inc.'s criminal and abusive behavior that is at
issue.

> -- Ria
 
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:46:07 -0500, "Maris" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I'm not well versed in Scientology's creed. I have read books
> by L. Ron Hubbard (years ago).

A "creed" that Hubbard refused to follow, and that Scientology Inc.
refuses to abide by.

> I'm aware that there are some ex-Scientologists that are not
> happy with the religion[sic].

You mean because they're dead? http://whyaretheydead.org

> There are also those people that are happy with it.

Lots of cocaine addicts are happy with their addiction.

> I stand by their right to believe anything they want to believe.

So do some 99% of the people who object to Scientology Inc.'s crimes
and human rights abuses. It isn't about "belief:" it's about crime and
abuse.

> I wouldn't like it if someone harped on me and my spiritual
> beliefs,

"Belief" isn't the issue. DEAD SCIENTOLOGISTS IS! Far too many
Scientologists have been killed or maimed by Scientology and
Scientology Inc. Too many government offices have been burglarized by
the sinister business; too many innocent people framed for imaginary
crimes by the Scientology crime syndicate; too many people murdered.

When Scientology Inc. ordered Scott Mayer to take a hunting rifle
across the Mexican border and assasinate some Mexican citizens, was
that a "spiritual belief" that you support? When Mayer finally escaped
the Scientology crime syndicate and started to tell law enforcement
about the crimes he was ordered by Scientology Inc. to commit,
Scientology Inc. nearly murdered him by blowing up his car: was that
also a "spiritual belief" you approve of?

> so, I say leave the Scientologists alone.

You no doubt also say "Leave the rapists alone; leave the bank robbers
alone; leave the Ku Klux Klan lynch mob alone; leave the Mafia alone."
Same thing.

> As for his name, who knows? I think he's a nice guy, and that's
> enough for me.

He's a "nice guy" who gets a cut of the take for every victim he
routes into an international crime syndicate. Too many of those
victims end up dead or worse.

> --
> Maris
 
On 24 Sep 2003 06:05:23 -0700, [email protected] (Ria) wrote:

> > As anyone and everyone can see, human rights activists such as those
> > on a.r.s. object to Scientology and Scientology Inc. for very good
> > reason. We are working hard to protect Scientologists such as "Theta"
> > from their criminal, abusive, dangerous, and homicidal masters.

> nitpick: you use the name ShyDavid. do you have that printed on *your*
> birth certificate? he does use his real first name though. it does not
> help you use bad arguments.

Why did you UTTERLY IGNORE what I wrote, but *****ed about my name?

The human rights community objects to Scientology and Scientology Inc.
not out of "belief," nor does "faith" or "religion" apply. We object
because TOO MANY SCIETOLOGISTS HAVED DIED AT THE HANDS OF SCIENTOLOGY
INC. This is obvious; belief doesn't matter---- criminal and abusive
acts by Scientology Inc. is the issue. People who contribute to
alt.religion.scientology are doing so to defend Scientologists and
their civil and human rights: rights that Scientology Inc. does not
allow their customers to exercise. The sinister business wishes people
to believe that us human rights activists are objecting to "belief"
and "faith" and not criminal and abusive behavior: anyone who takes an
hour or so to look at the facts will see otherwise.
 
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:00:44 -0700, Chris Leithiser
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Ria wrote:

> > > As anyone and everyone can see, human rights activists such as those
> > > on a.r.s. object to Scientology and Scientology Inc. for very good
> > > reason. We are working hard to protect Scientologists such as "Theta"
> > > from their criminal, abusive, dangerous, and homicidal masters.

> > nitpick: you use the name ShyDavid. do you have that printed on *your*
> > birth certificate? he does use his real first name though. it does not
> > help you use bad arguments.

> Are you quibbling because he put "Theta" in "quotes?" I assume that's
> because you have no problem with the remainder of the sentence...

The answer appears to be "Yes and yes."
 
On 22 Sep 2003 17:17:02 -0700, [email protected] (Ria) wrote:

>> I take these anti-Scientology posts with the same grain
>> of salt as I take the fundamentalist ravings that occasionally
>> appear here and there.

I take the torture and homicide of people seriously. Far too many
Scientologists have been killed or maimed due to Scientology and
Scientology Inc. Objecting to Scientology Inc.'s crimes and human
rights abuses isn't a form of "raving:" we speak up because we insist
that Scientologists must still be allowed to exercise their civil and
human rights: rights Scientology Inc. refuses to conceed to their
customers.

> you might not if you followed up the links.

http://holysmoke.org/pc/pc.htm tells of the FBI's discovery that
Scientology Inc. framed a writer for felonies, and eventually tried to
murder her. Surely this is important, yes?

> ignore the humorlessness of the posts, they do have a point
> about the Church[sic]'s policies and values.

It is Scientology Inc.'s criminal and abusive behavior that is at
issue.

> -- Ria
 
You might help your cause if you trimmed your headers and quit
crossposting into six other newsgroups and stick with all-faiths. I
have crossposted this message to see if anyone in the other groups
might agree.


On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:30:30 -0500, "Maris" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>There is no freedom in any religion that seeks to exclude, whether the
>exclusion is because of money, race, sexual orientation, or any of those
>powder keg topics being tossed about today. I personally don't have the
>money nor the inclination to work hard enough to become a Scientologist.
>
>What I am doing is defending Mike, a regular posting member of our NG,
>All-Faiths.
 
Chris Leithiser <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Theta wrote:
> >
> > <sigh> Psychbusters IS independent. It is NOT affiliated with the CoS.
>
> Mike, it might be more believable if Co$ didn't have a long history of
> misrepresentation and hiding its direct association with its front
> groups such as CCHR and NarCONon, and if the MSN group didn't have links
> to CCHR, and if psychbusters.net didn't have such a "clear" connection
> back to Co$.

The group also provides links to the Committee on the Safety of
Medicines and the Medicines and Health products Regulatory Agency -
does that mean Psychbusters is "affiliated" with the British
Government?

Mike
 
Theta wrote:

>
> The group also provides links to the Committee on the Safety of
> Medicines and the Medicines and Health products Regulatory Agency -
> does that mean Psychbusters is "affiliated" with the British
> Government?

Aside from the most recent unpleasantness in Iraq, the British
Government does not seem to have a documented history of misrepresenting
itself to the public the way $cientology does.
 
On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:50:33 -0700, Chris Leithiser
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Theta wrote:
>
>>
>> The group also provides links to the Committee on the Safety of
>> Medicines and the Medicines and Health products Regulatory Agency -
>> does that mean Psychbusters is "affiliated" with the British
>> Government?
>
>Aside from the most recent unpleasantness in Iraq, the British
>Government does not seem to have a documented history of misrepresenting
>itself to the public the way $cientology does.

LOL...
Clearly you know little about the british government
 
[email protected] (Ria) wrote:

>you do describe Mike's ability to evade uncomfortable questions, for sure.

>> In fact Make is lying. Scientology isn't a "faith" in any sense of
>> the word but it _is_ organized crime, something that "anti-Scientology"
>> folks address.

>false dichotomy there.

Scientology is many things but the company's own "primary governing policy"
is written policy which specifically states that Scientology's primary
reason for existing is to "make money, make more money, assist others so as
to make more money." The documents that Federal agents seized in the
1970's had among them internal memos which helped validate and verify the
authenticity of this document and "Operation Snow White." All of which
underscores the primary goals and aims of Scientology: organized crime.

---
"I spewed bodily fluids." - Shydavid http://www.skeptictank.org/
http://www.RonTheNut.ORG/ PGP: http://www.skeptictank.org/frice.pgp
-- You love drugs! You love drugs, don't you?! You better
not say anything about my mother! Don't you DARE say anything
about my mother! -- Scientology's International President (Audio
files of this nutter at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice
 
"ulunuhi" <[email protected]> wrote:

>paranoia knows no bounds hmmm

Apparently neither does the epidemic rape of children by Christian clergy.
However I'll note that you declined to address the issues thereby offering
tact admission that everything I covered is undeniably accurate. }:-}
Mike also likes to post outrageous claims about the crime syndicate and
also fails to address the documented evidence which suggests otherwise.

>"Fredric L. Rice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> jake <nospamhere@all> wrote:
>>>On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:35:15 -0700, Chris Leithiser
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>Ria wrote:
>>>>> > I take these anti-Scientology posts with the same grain of salt as I take
>>>>> > the fundamentalist ravings that occasionally appear here and there.
>>>>> you might not if you followed up the links.
>>>>> ignore the humorlessness of the posts, they do have a point about the
>>>>> Church's policies and values.
>>>>Start _here_ with the cult's despicable behavior after 9/11:
>>>>http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/20010911-tragedy/
>>>>And then _here_ for how they treat their own members:
>>>>http://www.lisamcpherson.org
>>>The Catholic Church have a lot to answer for too..
>>>are catholics going to be pack attacked every time they post?

>> When they advocate or hide the rape of children, certainly, yes. When
>> Scientology's activities are exposed it's their core criminality that's
>> covered, just as it is when priests or nuns are exposed for their crimes.
>> If you or anyone else doesn't like it, tough; the only reason why child
>> rape in the Catholic cult manages to survive as long as it has is because
>> few wanted to expose or deal with the problem. Along came the Internet
>> and now any cult's epidemic criminality is fair game for exposure.
>> The notion that one can claim religious exemption from exposure is one
>> of the more idiotic things I've seen people propose, incidentally -- not
>> that I suspect you're doing so.

>>>whatever happened to freedom of worship?

>> Freedom of worship doesn't mean freedom to murder. Scientology claims
>> they had the right to murder Lisa McPherson under Florida's adoption of
>> a "Religious Freedom Restoration Act." The Judge ruled that Scientology
>> couldn't have the case dismissed just because it claimed to be a
>> religion. The laws apply to everyone -- including criminal enterprises
>> that murder girls.

---
"I spewed bodily fluids." - Shydavid http://www.skeptictank.org/
http://www.RonTheNut.ORG/ PGP: http://www.skeptictank.org/frice.pgp
-- You love drugs! You love drugs, don't you?! You better
not say anything about my mother! Don't you DARE say anything
about my mother! -- Scientology's International President (Audio
files of this nutter at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice
 
Chris Leithiser <[email protected]> wrote:

>ulunuhi wrote:
>> no not even close - I assure you.

>Your assurances and $360,000 will purchase OT-III status in the cult,
>and give you the lowdown about Xenu and the body-thetan infestation
>problem.

Or you can get it all for free at:

http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html

Real religions are up front about what it is they're supposed to
believe. Scientology doesn't let its customers know they're a
flying saucer cult until they've paid in around $360,000 U. S.
dollars and have spent years subjecting themselves to "TRs" which
makes it possible for them to be pliant and open enough to try to
believe it when it's sold to them.

---
"I spewed bodily fluids." - Shydavid http://www.skeptictank.org/
http://www.RonTheNut.ORG/ PGP: http://www.skeptictank.org/frice.pgp
-- You love drugs! You love drugs, don't you?! You better
not say anything about my mother! Don't you DARE say anything
about my mother! -- Scientology's International President (Audio
files of this nutter at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice
 
Chris Leithiser <[email protected]> wrote:

>Maris wrote:
>> Who knows why people pay for enlightenment?
>Shrug. False advertising, maybe?

The problem is that "dim witted" doesn't have anything to do with whether
one gets rooked or swindled into buying Scientology's bridge. A lot of
otherwise smart people have been suckered in and didn't wake up and demand
their money back after around 2 years later (the average customer only
lasts about 2 years.)

---
"I spewed bodily fluids." - Shydavid http://www.skeptictank.org/
http://www.RonTheNut.ORG/ PGP: http://www.skeptictank.org/frice.pgp
-- You love drugs! You love drugs, don't you?! You better
not say anything about my mother! Don't you DARE say anything
about my mother! -- Scientology's International President (Audio
files of this nutter at http://www.linkline.com/personal/frice
 
It was crossposted to my group. I just haven't removed the other NG's from
it.

Go to the source of the thread with your complaint.

--
Maris

Follow your bliss! (Joseph Campbell)


"J. R. Ford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
You might help your cause if you trimmed your headers and quit
crossposting into six other newsgroups and stick with all-faiths. I
have crossposted this message to see if anyone in the other groups
might agree.


On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:30:30 -0500, "Maris" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>There is no freedom in any religion that seeks to exclude, whether the
>exclusion is because of money, race, sexual orientation, or any of those
>powder keg topics being tossed about today. I personally don't have the
>money nor the inclination to work hard enough to become a Scientologist.
>
>What I am doing is defending Mike, a regular posting member of our NG,
>All-Faiths.
 
> > ignore the humorlessness of the posts, they do have a point
> > about the Church[sic]'s policies and values.
>
> It is Scientology Inc.'s criminal and abusive behavior that is at
> issue.

I apologize.

side issues do matter less than than allowing people to know what kind
of actions the Church does.
 
> <sigh> Psychbusters IS independent. It is NOT affiliated with the CoS.
> It is also NOT affiliated with SCI. [break]

Jackie Sloan who describes her work as a Scientology Volunteer
Minister this way,

"I have been helping people for over 20 years with the skills and
knowledge I am
learning from my training in Scientology."

works out of 4166 Garden Ave. #A, Los Angeles.

http://66.175.20.211/jackie.vmhelp/page5.htm

the owner of the pscychbusters.net domain gives their (working?)
address as 4166 Garden Ave. #A, Los Angeles.

http://www.talkaboutsupport.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/messages/295452.html

in response to one of Mike's own posts promoting the Psychbusters
board.

not disputing that a variety of people may contribute the board. they
may not know the board's connection to the Church. let alone reasons
to distrust the Church.
 
> > > In fact Make is lying. Scientology isn't a "faith" in any sense of
> > > the word but it _is_ organized crime, something that "anti-Scientology"
> > > folks address.
> >
> > false dichotomy there.
>
> How so? You're saying $cientology is "both a floor wax _and_ a dessert
> topping?"

yes. I class a number of religions as big business rackets.

this one just spells it out more plainly.
 
lots or "churches" premise is make money.

You'd have to be from another planet though to not know going in Scientology
expects payment

--
"We stumble and fall constantly, even when we are most enlightened."
Thomas Merton

"Chris Leithiser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ria wrote:
> >
> > you do describe Mike's ability to evade uncomfortable questions, for
sure.
> >
> > > In fact Make is lying. Scientology isn't a "faith" in any sense of
> > > the word but it _is_ organized crime, something that
"anti-Scientology"
> > > folks address.
> >
> > false dichotomy there.
>
> How so? You're saying $cientology is "both a floor wax _and_ a dessert
> topping?"
>
> $cientology's Kyrie, straight from the founder, is "Make money. Make
> More Money. Make other people produce so as to make more money."
>
> Hence Reed Slatkin http://www.slatkinfraud.net and the Raul Lopez
> scandal http://www.raullopez.org/
 
It would be great if the Theta stalkers would just stop spamming all-faiths
along with at least 5 other newsgroups (there are 7 in the header) to begin
with.

Have no idea which is their home newsgroup. If they would mention it I
would be glad to drop all the other newsgroups from the header. Shotgun
crossposting is irritatiing.
--
"We stumble and fall constantly, even when we are most enlightened."
Thomas Merton

"J. R. Ford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You might help your cause if you trimmed your headers and quit
> crossposting into six other newsgroups and stick with all-faiths. I
> have crossposted this message to see if anyone in the other groups
> might agree.
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:30:30 -0500, "Maris" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >There is no freedom in any religion that seeks to exclude, whether the
> >exclusion is because of money, race, sexual orientation, or any of those
> >powder keg topics being tossed about today. I personally don't have the
> >money nor the inclination to work hard enough to become a Scientologist.
> >
> >What I am doing is defending Mike, a regular posting member of our NG,
> >All-Faiths.
>
 
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