Screw the entry fees

Discussion in 'Triathlon' started by Radioactive Man, Sep 4, 2004.

  1. I trained over the summer for a half ironman at the end of September,
    but decided to pass it over at the last minute (right before the entry
    fees went up). Among the reasons for this were that it was too close
    to other races where I actually have a good chance of making it to the
    podium and also the high entry fees. Instead of actually entering the
    half-IM, I went out today with very little taper to essentially do a
    solo simulation of an actual half-IM. The only bad part is that I
    ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
    (> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars, and
    attempting to preserve myself for an actual race (15k run) that is
    only 2 weeks away. That said, I'm still glad I did this instead of
    actually entering the thing. Although I've done many 60 mile rides
    and 13 mile runs separately, as well as some partial "bricks", today's
    event amounts more training volume than I've ever done at once and
    will serve me well in determining how to improve my training in the
    future. Also, the money I saved will go far towards a wetsuit.
     
    Tags:


  2. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Radioactive Man <[email protected]> wrote:

    > The only bad part is that I
    > ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
    > (> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,



    Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
    pay attention to nutrition?

    I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
    and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
    have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
    water source.

    --Harold Buck


    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson
     
  3. On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 07:44:29 -0500, Harold Buck
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > Radioactive Man <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> The only bad part is that I
    >> ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
    >> (> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,

    >
    >
    >Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
    >pay attention to nutrition?


    Running is normally my strongest event, with the swim or bike ride
    being the weakest for me. Most of my half-marathons, 10 milers, and
    15's are around 7:00 per mile, but yesterday I was running ~10:10 per
    mile on the 6.55 miles I ran. I believe my slow running yesterday was
    because I did not do enough training sessions in the 3 - 5 hour range.
    It seems that ones run performance in an IM or half-IM is more a
    function of how much time they've spent on the bike than how fast they
    can run the distance from a fresh start.

    That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
    (instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
    ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
    < 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
    cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
    bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
    training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
    your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
    yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
    finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
    sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
    often.

    I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
    does that sort of strategy work for you?

    As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
    worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
    contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
    That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
    simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
    for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
    the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
    depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
    starting.

    Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
    donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
    vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
    the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.

    >
    >I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
    >and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
    >have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
    >water source.
    >


    I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
    training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
    the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
    gels.

    >--Harold Buck
    >
    >
    >"I used to rock and roll all night,
    > and party every day.
    > Then it was every other day. . . ."
    > -Homer J. Simpson
     
  4. On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 07:44:29 -0500, Harold Buck
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > Radioactive Man <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> The only bad part is that I
    >> ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
    >> (> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,

    >
    >
    >Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
    >pay attention to nutrition?


    Running is normally my strongest event, with the swim or bike ride
    being the weakest for me. Most of my half-marathons, 10 milers, and
    15's are around 7:00 per mile, but yesterday I was running ~10:10 per
    mile on the 6.55 miles I ran. I believe my slow running yesterday was
    because I did not do enough training sessions in the 3 - 5 hour range.
    It seems that ones run performance in an IM or half-IM is more a
    function of how much time they've spent on the bike than how fast they
    can run the distance from a fresh start.

    That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
    (instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
    ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
    < 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
    cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
    bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
    training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
    your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
    yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
    finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
    sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
    often.

    I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
    does that sort of strategy work for you?

    As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
    worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
    contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
    That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
    simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
    for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
    the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
    depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
    starting.

    Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
    donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
    vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
    the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.

    >
    >I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
    >and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
    >have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
    >water source.
    >


    I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
    training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
    the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
    gels.

    >--Harold Buck
    >
    >
    >"I used to rock and roll all night,
    > and party every day.
    > Then it was every other day. . . ."
    > -Homer J. Simpson
     
  5. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Radioactive Man <[email protected]> wrote:

    > That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
    > (instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
    > ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
    > < 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
    > cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
    > bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
    > training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
    > your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
    > yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
    > finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
    > sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
    > often.
    >
    > I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
    > does that sort of strategy work for you?


    I have two kids now, so my training tends to be sort of minimalist. I
    used to do bricks, but I know what the turnover after T2 is going to
    feel like and it doesn't bother me anymore. I don't think I did one
    brick all year.

    For me these days, training is all about getting in my long runs and
    trying to get at least one high-intensity workout (usually a 20-minute
    run--after a warmup--at a pace that I can handle for 20 minutes but not
    for much longer). I got little bike training in this year; before my
    half-IM this year, I'd done less than 250 miles of biking for the
    season, and that included two other races! However, I've been working on
    doing bike intervals rather than just long, slow rides, and this minimal
    training let me cut 50 minutes off my half-IM P.R. and got me under 6
    hours. I think I could go 5:30 with a little more work on the bike.

    My focus this year is an Ultra-Marathon (50k), so I haven't been as
    worried about the bike. I'm hoping to do the Pineman Ironman-distance
    race next year, so I'll have to get more biking in (but by then both
    kids will be old enough to go in the double bike trailer!).

    > As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
    > worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
    > contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
    > That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
    > simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
    > for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
    > the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
    > depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
    > starting.
    >
    > Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
    > donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
    > vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
    > the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.


    Ah, I can see your nutritional situation is more complicated than mine.
    When people ask me what my strength is in triathlon, I tell them it's my
    ability to throw down huge numbers of calories!

    > >I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
    > >and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
    > >have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
    > >water source.
    > >

    >
    > I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
    > training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
    > the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
    > gels.


    Whatever you do, practice your nutritional plan in training, from your
    breakfast to what you eat during the workout/race. That's how I learned
    what works for me, and I stick to that now.

    --Harold Buck


    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson
     
  6. IMKen

    IMKen Guest

    Having completed 30 or more half distance events I have found for me to be
    competitive (5 hr in my old age group now )I need to do lots of 100 mile
    sessions on the bike. Runs to 18 miles and all said and done about 24 hours
    a week of good smart training. Running is usually my weak link as i do the
    13.1 miles in 1:52 or a couple minutes longer. Generally bike in 1:35 plus
    a couple on windy rolling courses. My swim is just OK at 37 minutes in flat
    water.

    I do several training days of 6+ hours getting race ready. I do a 5 hour
    easy paced day one week prior to race. Yep, it may sound excessive but it
    for the last 15 years has managed to get me first in age group in 98 % of my
    races.

    I don't even want to tell you what I have done for IM distance. You pretty
    much get back what you are able to put in. Time is a factor for you guys
    still needing to work for a living. I used to get up at 4 AM and run to
    work, swim lunch hour and bike till there was no more light after work then
    get on the trainer.

    Lately I have been flaking out and it is apparent. I would hate to even try
    a half in the next couple months.

    Ken


    "Radioactive Man" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 07:44:29 -0500, Harold Buck
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>In article <[email protected]>,
    >> Radioactive Man <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> The only bad part is that I
    >>> ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
    >>> (> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,

    >>
    >>
    >>Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
    >>pay attention to nutrition?

    >
    > Running is normally my strongest event, with the swim or bike ride
    > being the weakest for me. Most of my half-marathons, 10 milers, and
    > 15's are around 7:00 per mile, but yesterday I was running ~10:10 per
    > mile on the 6.55 miles I ran. I believe my slow running yesterday was
    > because I did not do enough training sessions in the 3 - 5 hour range.
    > It seems that ones run performance in an IM or half-IM is more a
    > function of how much time they've spent on the bike than how fast they
    > can run the distance from a fresh start.
    >
    > That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
    > (instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
    > ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
    > < 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
    > cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
    > bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
    > training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
    > your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
    > yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
    > finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
    > sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
    > often.
    >
    > I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
    > does that sort of strategy work for you?
    >
    > As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
    > worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
    > contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
    > That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
    > simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
    > for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
    > the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
    > depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
    > starting.
    >
    > Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
    > donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
    > vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
    > the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.
    >
    >>
    >>I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
    >>and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
    >>have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
    >>water source.
    >>

    >
    > I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
    > training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
    > the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
    > gels.
    >
    >>--Harold Buck
    >>
    >>
    >>"I used to rock and roll all night,
    >> and party every day.
    >> Then it was every other day. . . ."
    >> -Homer J. Simpson

    >
     
  7. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "IMKen" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Having completed 30 or more half distance events I have found for me to be
    > competitive (5 hr in my old age group now )I need to do lots of 100 mile
    > sessions on the bike. Runs to 18 miles and all said and done about 24 hours
    > a week of good smart training. Running is usually my weak link as i do the
    > 13.1 miles in 1:52 or a couple minutes longer. Generally bike in 1:35 plus
    > a couple on windy rolling courses.


    Either you mean 2:35 or we need to get you on the U.S. Postal Service
    Team! :)

    (Er. . . . "Discovery Channel Team" for next year.)


    --Harold Buck


    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson
     
  8. On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 07:22:18 GMT, "IMKen" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Having completed 30 or more half distance events I have found for me to be
    >competitive (5 hr in my old age group now )I need to do lots of 100 mile
    >sessions on the bike. Runs to 18 miles and all said and done about 24 hours
    >a week of good smart training. Running is usually my weak link as i do the
    >13.1 miles in 1:52 or a couple minutes longer. Generally bike in 1:35 plus
    >a couple on windy rolling courses. My swim is just OK at 37 minutes in flat
    >water.


    But the 100 mile rides and 18 mile runs are on separate days when
    training for the half IM, right?

    >
    >I do several training days of 6+ hours getting race ready. I do a 5 hour
    >easy paced day one week prior to race. Yep, it may sound excessive but it
    >for the last 15 years has managed to get me first in age group in 98 % of my
    >races.


    Surviving the training is half the battle. It is good that you're
    able to get through all that without an injury that shuts it down. If
    a knee or anything else below the waist starts hurting me, I tend to
    back off the running and biking a bit and start swimming 2 hours at a
    time instead. I know that is not optimal for triathlon training, but
    it is better than sitting on the couch.

    My problem last Saturday was not that I'm a weak runner, but simply
    that I did not have enough stamina to perform anything well after
    being in motion for 3 or 4 hours. Thus, I believe any training
    combination I do that lasts 5 - 6 hours at a time will bring
    improvements, so long as everything is reasonably proportioned - such
    as a 1 hour swim, 3 hour ride, and 2 hour run. If that ever gets too
    easy, I can always go do a century ride like you do.

    >
    >I don't even want to tell you what I have done for IM distance. You pretty
    >much get back what you are able to put in. Time is a factor for you guys
    >still needing to work for a living. I used to get up at 4 AM and run to
    >work, swim lunch hour and bike till there was no more light after work then
    >get on the trainer.


    That is interesting that the over-distance training strategy works for
    you even at the half-IM distance. It works without question if you're
    talking about running 5ks and 10ks or even swimming 1500 M, but when
    you're talking about an all day event, things aren't so clear cut
    anymore.

    I am going to start training for a marathon soon and I'm thinking that
    my longest run should be around 4 hours (my goal is <= 3:10:59). That
    should put me very close to actual distance, but at an easier pace.
    I've read and heard plenty of advice about only running 18 or 20 miles
    as the longest training run, but I believe it would make sense to
    cover the full distance a few times in training before actually racing
    it, just I as intend to do with the half-IM. Would you do the same if
    you were going to run a marathon, but had never done one before?

    >
    >Lately I have been flaking out and it is apparent. I would hate to even try
    >a half in the next couple months.
    >
    >Ken
    >


    Thanks for the info.




    >
    >"Radioactive Man" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 07:44:29 -0500, Harold Buck
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>In article <[email protected]>,
    >>> Radioactive Man <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The only bad part is that I
    >>>> ended up having to quit 1/2 through the run due to excessive fatigue
    >>>> (> 3 min/mile slower than 1/2 marathon pace), low blood sugars,
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Why did you have these problems? Were you undertrained, or did you not
    >>>pay attention to nutrition?

    >>
    >> Running is normally my strongest event, with the swim or bike ride
    >> being the weakest for me. Most of my half-marathons, 10 milers, and
    >> 15's are around 7:00 per mile, but yesterday I was running ~10:10 per
    >> mile on the 6.55 miles I ran. I believe my slow running yesterday was
    >> because I did not do enough training sessions in the 3 - 5 hour range.
    >> It seems that ones run performance in an IM or half-IM is more a
    >> function of how much time they've spent on the bike than how fast they
    >> can run the distance from a fresh start.
    >>
    >> That said, I believe I should either bring my long rides to 70 miles
    >> (instead of the usual 50 - 60) or else swim a warmup + 1.2 miles, then
    >> ride 56 miles, while not neglecting long runs and "bricks". Swimming
    >> < 40 minutes is not a big deal for me, but I can see how it would
    >> cause me to fatigue ~12 miles earlier than I otherwise would on the
    >> bike ride. I believe the most important thing for 1/2 ironman
    >> training is to get your longest training sessions to at least 2/3 of
    >> your target time, with most of it being the bike ride. Since
    >> yesterday's performance would have put me around 6 hours, had I
    >> finished, and my actual target is around 5:30, my long training
    >> sessions should then be >= 4 hours. That, I confess, I did not do
    >> often.
    >>
    >> I believe you've actually done some half-IM's before, right? If so,
    >> does that sort of strategy work for you?
    >>
    >> As for the low blood sugars, which were in the 50's, and probably
    >> worse at some points, that is due to me injecting insulin because I
    >> contracted type 1 diabetes last year, while training for a half IM.
    >> That is part of the reason I did that half IM attempt yesterday -
    >> simply to collect data about what nutritional strategies are optimal
    >> for me. Experience tells me my carb intake needs to be somewhere in
    >> the 0.5 - 1.0 g per minute range during long events like this,
    >> depending on how much slow-acting insulin I've injected before
    >> starting.
    >>
    >> Otherwise, my nutrional strategy is simply eat no sweets (cake,
    >> donuts), moderate amounts of rice, pasta, and fruit, and lots of
    >> vegetables, lean meat, nuts, cheese, eggs, etc. I eat more carbs than
    >> the Atkins people, but a good bit less than most endurance athletes.
    >>
    >>>
    >>>I have a holster-style bottle carrier with a pocket that holds 6-7 gels,
    >>>and I can carry extra powder for gatorade in a singlet pocket. I don't
    >>>have any trouble doing really long workouts as long as I can run by a
    >>>water source.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I am planning to get one of those camel back things when I start
    >> training for a marathon. That will get me all the water I need and
    >> the only other thing I'll need is something like you have to carry the
    >> gels.
    >>
    >>>--Harold Buck
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>"I used to rock and roll all night,
    >>> and party every day.
    >>> Then it was every other day. . . ."
    >>> -Homer J. Simpson

    >>

    >
     
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