Screwed/Goat



[email protected] (........ ...........) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

WHO WAS IT, THREATENED THE PRESIDENT?

WHO ADVOCATED AID TO TERRORISTS?

YEP, our own BILL DAVIDSON, just one day after the 9-11 attack, while the victims were
still burning.
___________________________________________________
"we should bomb that pathetic excuse for a man too, or at least give his location to every terrorist
group we can find, and let them take him out. Just what we need in the white house, a coked-up
dopehead running the country".

From: MrRobotTow ([email protected]) Subject: Re: The Only Thing Newsgroups:
rec.music.makers.bagpipe Date: 2001-09-12 03:00:32 PST

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pathetic+pea-brain+mrrobottow&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
8&selm=20010912055959.21715.00001917%40mb-fi.aol.com&rnum=3
___________________________________________________

YO! Homeland Security dudes: KEY PHRASES! BOMB "WHITE HOUSE" "TERRORIST GROUP"

THERE'S YER ANTISOCIAL NUT CASE, RIGHT THERE! COULD BE another John Hinckley. Check him out!

This US citizen publicly called for AID to TERRORISTS: IS HIS NAME ON YOUR LIST? Check him out!

To long-suffering RMMB contributors: DO COPY AND PASTE this message. THEN use it to REPLY anytime
you have an urge to respond to the NOT-REALLY-ANNONYMOUS troll on RMMB and rec.running. (Why, YES,
Bill Davidson, the source of thousands of lowlife postings under dozens of account names, is also
"TheBillRodgers" and his clones.

Will Bill's own words amuse him as much as they amuse us? WILL THEY AMUSE OTHERS? Let's find out.
Let's be sure BILL gets the attention he deserves and craves.

COPY, PASTE, REPLY to our TROLL. IT'S THAT EASY
 
"Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Tim Downie wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know where one can buy these screws on-line (preferably in
the
> > UK)? I've done all my local hardware stores and searched the net for suppliers but I can't find
> > a supplier anywhere.
>
> In the US we have very large, about the size of a football field, home improvement centers. Two
> in particular that are in my area are Lowes and Home Depot. I looked and they seem to be US
> only Stores.
>
> If it helps your search, I used "6X3/8 hex washer head" screws. I guess you can use 1/2 inch but
> they looked a little too long although the web page says they are ok for normal midsole thickness.
> The web page forgets that screws are measured in two dimensions, length and thickness. As you
> might imagine these come in various thickness'. I chose the 6's cuz they looked like they would do
> the job. I would think 8's would also work.
>
>
> I did two spring time trails races last year and one in the fall where screws would have been my
> physical and mental salvation to get through the mud. I will henceforth carry a spare pair with
> the extra hardware. Fool me once.....
>
>
> --
> Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
>

I'm curious about this because I need something for better traction. This fall I did a 5K cross
country race at a XC ski place and a friend recommended that I get cleats if I'm going to continue
this folly (steep, snow over leaves, etc.). Of course he neglected to tell me this when he gave me
the entry form and I had no clue what I was getting into at the time.

The only safe place to run outdoors for me during the winter is on the lakes because the roads are
too narrow and the trails are for snowmobiles or XC skiing. I wasn't sure if cleats would work on
ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax. Eventually we're going to get back above 0 and it
is getting light enough later in the day that I'd like to get back outside as soon as possible, but
I don't want to fall and break something.

BTW, I'm a very novice runner (8 months) and I've never run outdoors in the winter. Now that I know
there are races all winter I'm interested in expanding my horizons. Plus I am getting rather sick of
the treadmill. Any advice will be helpful.

Jenn
 
JMA wrote:

> I'm curious about this because I need something for better traction. This fall I did a 5K cross
> country race at a XC ski place and a friend recommended that I get cleats if I'm going to continue
> this folly (steep, snow over leaves, etc.). Of course he neglected to tell me this when he gave me
> the entry form and I had no clue what I was getting into at the time.

A friend with a mean streak? :)

> The only safe place to run outdoors for me during the winter is on the lakes because the roads are
> too narrow

Too narrow because you are sharing them with cars?

> and the trails are for snowmobiles or XC skiing.

Says who? You can't share them as long as you stay out of the ski tracks?

> I wasn't sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax.

I have not tried the Yaktrax. I chose the screws because they are not expensive, no straps to break
which happen all too frequently, used by fellow trail friends(not the cruel type <G>) that do this
all the time. At worst a screw or two might come out and you have to replace them.

> Eventually we're going to get back above 0 and it is getting light enough later in the day that
> I'd like to get back outside as soon as possible, but I don't want to fall and break something.

For a few cents try the screws in an old pair and see how they work. If you're not happy try the
Yaktrax or some other flavor of cramp on device. If you missed the web page for a visual - dial in
http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm

> BTW, I'm a very novice runner (8 months) and I've never run outdoors in the winter. Now that I
> know there are races all winter I'm interested in expanding my horizons. Plus I am getting rather
> sick of the treadmill.

You can always slide back indoors when the conditions are truly ugly.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
 
"Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...

> > I'm curious about this because I need something for better traction.
This
> > fall I did a 5K cross country race at a XC ski place and a friend recommended that I get cleats
> > if I'm going to continue this folly
(steep,
> > snow over leaves, etc.). Of course he neglected to tell me this when he gave me the entry form
> > and I had no clue what I was getting into at the time.
>
> A friend with a mean streak? :)

Not mean so much as overconfident in my ability. It's a "fun" race that has a long history in the
area and I was thrilled to finish it having NEVER run a cross country in my life let alone one up &
down a black diamond xc ski trail. I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this
spring and summer :)

>
> > The only safe place to run outdoors for me during the winter is on the
lakes
> > because the roads are too narrow
>
> Too narrow because you are sharing them with cars?
>
Yes. Blind curves and high snowbanks aren't the best combination.

>
> > and the trails are for snowmobiles or XC skiing.
>
> Says who? You can't share them as long as you stay out of the ski tracks?
>
Snowmobiles are worse than cars. Up here it's more of a way to head from bar to bar. I like the idea
of running on the lakes - wide open and unlimited possibilities. There's more water here than land.

>
>
> > I wasn't sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax.
>
> I have not tried the Yaktrax. I chose the screws because they are not expensive, no straps to
> break which happen all too frequently, used by fellow trail friends(not the cruel type <G>) that
> do this all the time. At worst a screw or two might come out and you have to replace them.
>
I've always had a screw or two loose so this won't be a problem.

>
> > Eventually we're going to get back above 0 and it is getting light enough later in the day that
> > I'd like to get back outside
as
> > soon as possible, but I don't want to fall and break something.
>
> For a few cents try the screws in an old pair and see how they work. If you're not happy try the
> Yaktrax or some other flavor of cramp on device. If you missed the web page for a visual - dial in
> http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm
>

Cool beans! I'm headed to Ace tomorrow :)

> > BTW, I'm a very novice runner (8 months) and I've never run outdoors in
the
> > winter. Now that I know there are races all winter I'm interested in expanding my horizons. Plus
> > I am getting rather sick of the treadmill.
>
> You can always slide back indoors when the conditions are truly ugly.

I'm waiting for them to get un-ugly. Today's high was -10 with -25 wind chills. Tomorrow we're
supposed to have -35 wind chills. The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may
venture out. One of the treadmills at the place I go blew up the other night and it's going to be a
while before it's fixed or replaced so I have to suck up and deal with the cold if I want to
accomplish my training goals.

Thanks for the tips!

Jenn
 
JMA wrote:
> "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:p[email protected]...

> I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer :)

Is there any reason why you can't run there now - assuming you stay out of ski tracks? Different ski
areas are different, but our local etiquette is that snowshoers can use trails as long as they stay
off the tracks. However, there's been occasional horses, people, and dogs there, so it's a little
pockmarked outside the tracks, but not bad.

I had a really beautiful run on our local xc ski area this evening - beautiful half moon light
casting shadows through the trees. Ran 1 lap with headlight on (normal running), then ran/walked a
2nd with snowshoes and headlight off. Not another soul on the trail or in the parking area.
>
>
> Snowmobiles are worse than cars. Up here it's more of a way to head from bar to bar. I like the
> idea of running on the lakes - wide open and unlimited possibilities. There's more water here
> than land.

The snow machines where I am (southcentral Alaska) love to open throttle on the wide open lakes ;) I
tend to hide on the trails in the trees.

Here's some ideas for other devices if the screws don't work. I got these links from another Alaskan
in another running group: http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/2666130p-2707203c.html
http://skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm http://www.compasspoint-
online.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Metal_Studded_Orienteering_Shoes_22.html
http://www.icebug.se/launch.asp

I've used Ice Joggers on smooth ice (black ice) around here, and I think that's the most common
type used here, but I could be wrong. The carbide tips will bite into most ice, but they aren't
particularly long so if you have snow on top of ice or lumpy ice, not all the studs grab. In the
past, I've found this type running to be nasty on the legs, so I avoid it now. Studs get used in
parking lots, walking to work, etc. They might be too narrow to grip packed snow, but I've always
been able to get by with my normal shoes for most things except ice or hard-packed snow polished
by the wind.

http://www.running-shoes-n-clothing.com/Surefoot-Surefoot-Ice-Joggers.asp

>
>
>>
>>>I wasn't sure if cleats would work on ice (snow covered) and I was considering Yaktrax.

I haven't used Yaktrax either, but have seen poor reviews for them on *ice*. But I've seen at least
one good report for running on *snow* on trail - but I don't remember what kind of snow - although
may have a tendency to break. I do have Yaktrax for emergencies in the car or whatever and did take
them with me on tonight's trail run thinking I might need some traction, but the snow was so nice, I
didn't need anything except my normal shoes (Brooks Trespass 1).

I think the screws are the cheapest way to go - and perhaps the most general - if you have an old
pair of shoes, which I don't (joys of changing shoe styles). But I'd be interested in hearing how
they do on black ice (which is where I usually use IceJoggers) or bare lake ice. We tend to use the
strap-on devices since we use them to negotiate walking around in normal life (remove when entering
buildings) and since we have them, use them for running also.

>
>>>BTW, I'm a very novice runner (8 months) and I've never run
outdoors in the
>>>winter. Now that I know there are races all winter I'm interested in expanding my horizons. Plus
>>>I am getting rather sick of the treadmill.
>>
>>You can always slide back indoors when the conditions are truly ugly.

Ditto on that! Another adventurer!

>
>
> I'm waiting for them to get un-ugly. Today's high was -10 with -25 wind chills. Tomorrow we're
> supposed to have -35 wind chills. The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may
> venture out.

The winds can get interesting at those temperatues unless you've got good wind gear ;) With
experience, you'll find out what layers work under what conditions and how to keep your sports
drinks from freezing - or whether it's not worth the hassle, depending on your goals and interests.

Winter can be a truly enjoyable time to run outside *after* one has the gear figured out.

Enjoy your running.

Dot The moon and stars were so bright tonight I just had to go stand in the middle of the starting
area and watch them after I was done.

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
JMA wrote:

>
> Not mean so much as overconfident in my ability. It's a "fun" race that has a long history in the
> area and I was thrilled to finish it having NEVER run a cross country in my life let alone one up
> & down a black diamond xc ski trail. I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly
> this spring and summer :)

I like your way of thinking. Since I live close to to a good uphill I don't have to trek to the ski
area in the summer and spring. I actually have hundreds of state marked trails to choose from.

>>Too narrow because you are sharing them with cars?
>>
>
> Yes. Blind curves and high snowbanks aren't the best combination.
Gotcha.

>>Says who? You can't share them as long as you stay out of the ski tracks?
>>
>
> Snowmobiles are worse than cars. Up here it's more of a way to head from bar to bar. I like the
> idea of running on the lakes - wide open and unlimited possibilities. There's more water here
> than land.

Which floor of the ark do you live. ;) I guess a frozen lake is better than a Tmill but still a bit
flat. You can use the Tmill for elevation runs(after they get it fixed)

> I've always had a screw or two loose so this won't be a problem.

You got all the prerequisites for an endurance trail runner. Am I getting warm?

> I'm waiting for them to get un-ugly. Today's high was -10 with -25 wind chills. Tomorrow we're
> supposed to have -35 wind chills. The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may
> venture out.

A veritable heat spell - shorts and a tank top? We are back in the 20's.

> treadmills at the place I go blew up the other night and it's going to be a while before it's
> fixed or replaced so I have to suck up and deal with the cold if I want to accomplish my
> training goals.

And these training goals are?????

As Dot asked, let us know how they work on pure ice. I have been using them on snow covered ice
which works well so far. Good luck and have fun.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
 
"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> JMA wrote:
> > "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:p[email protected]...
>
> > I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer :)
>
> Is there any reason why you can't run there now - assuming you stay out of ski tracks? Different
> ski areas are different, but our local etiquette is that snowshoers can use trails as long as they
> stay off the tracks. However, there's been occasional horses, people, and dogs there, so it's a
> little pockmarked outside the tracks, but not bad.

The snow is rather deep. I can snowshoe there. The folks that run the place prefer snowshoers. I'm
going there to ski this weekend and I'll take a look around.

> > Snowmobiles are worse than cars. Up here it's more of a way to head
from
> > bar to bar. I like the idea of running on the lakes - wide open and unlimited possibilities.
> > There's more water here than land.
>
> The snow machines where I am (southcentral Alaska) love to open throttle on the wide open lakes ;)
> I tend to hide on the trails in the trees.

Same here, but there's a lake that no one goes to. It's small - only 1/2 mile across and it looked
like it would be fun to do laps around the perimeter. On the bigger lakes where snowmobiles are
allowed, they have actual trails marked with cones because the lakes are full of ice shacks and guys
in trucks. The trails through the woods are narrow and hard to share. However, my husband reminded
me today that there are some logging roads I might be able to run on with little or no traffic.

>
> Here's some ideas for other devices if the screws don't work. I got these links from another
> Alaskan in another running group: http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/2666130p-2707203c.html
> http://skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm
>
http://www.compasspoint-
online.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Metal_Studded_Orienteering_Shoes_22.html
> http://www.icebug.se/launch.asp
>
>
> I've used Ice Joggers on smooth ice (black ice) around here, and I think that's the most common
> type used here, but I could be wrong. The carbide tips will bite into most ice, but they aren't
> particularly long so if you have snow on top of ice or lumpy ice, not all the studs grab. In the
> past, I've found this type running to be nasty on the legs, so I avoid it now. Studs get used in
> parking lots, walking to work, etc. They might be too narrow to grip packed snow, but I've always
> been able to get by with my normal shoes for most things except ice or hard-packed snow polished
> by the wind.
>
> http://www.running-shoes-n-clothing.com/Surefoot-Surefoot-Ice-Joggers.asp
>

It's snow on ice, but I'm sure it's polished with the wind we're having. I've taken a few walks
in my mukluks, but not since the latest snowfalls. That's kind of what gave me the idea to run
out there.

> > I'm waiting for them to get un-ugly. Today's high was -10 with -25 wind chills. Tomorrow we're
> > supposed to have -35 wind chills. The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may
> > venture out.
>
> The winds can get interesting at those temperatues unless you've got good wind gear ;) With
> experience, you'll find out what layers work under what conditions and how to keep your sports
> drinks from freezing - or whether it's not worth the hassle, depending on your goals and
interests.
>
> Winter can be a truly enjoyable time to run outside *after* one has the gear figured out.

I'm in that process now, figuring it all out. My first race this year is a 5 mile at the beginning
of March about 100 miles south of here so there won't be any snow. I need to get outdoors to get my
lungs acclimated to the cold, dry air or it's not going to be a fun day.

> Enjoy your running.
>
> Dot The moon and stars were so bright tonight I just had to go stand in the middle of the starting
> area and watch them after I was done.

Thanks for the info and advice, it's much appreciated :)

Jenn
 
"Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> JMA wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Not mean so much as overconfident in my ability. It's a "fun" race that
has
> > a long history in the area and I was thrilled to finish it having NEVER
run
> > a cross country in my life let alone one up & down a black diamond xc
ski
> > trail. I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer :)
>
> I like your way of thinking. Since I live close to to a good uphill I don't have to trek to the
> ski area in the summer and spring. I actually have hundreds of state marked trails to choose from.

I'm going to look into the possibility of running on the ski and snowshoe trails. We have hundreds
of them here also. I'm in the middle of nowhere. My husband also reminded me that there are a bunch
of logging roads with no traffic on the weekends. I'm going to check out a few places this weekend.

> > Snowmobiles are worse than cars. Up here it's more of a way to head
from
> > bar to bar. I like the idea of running on the lakes - wide open and unlimited possibilities.
> > There's more water here than land.
>
> Which floor of the ark do you live. ;) I guess a frozen lake is better than a Tmill but still a
> bit flat. You can use the Tmill for elevation runs(after they get it fixed)

I've been doing some incline running, though not much as I was really trying to get used to the
treadmill and build some endurance. Again, I'm very new to all of this.

> > I've always had a screw or two loose so this won't be a problem.
>
> You got all the prerequisites for an endurance trail runner. Am I getting warm?
>
Absolutely. For whatever reason, I'm totally into it. When I did that race in November, I cussed my
way through the first mile, halfway through the second mile I was planning how to train for the next
one, and by the end I wanted to do it all over again, even though I was pretty wrecked.

>
> > I'm waiting for them to get un-ugly. Today's high was -10 with -25 wind chills. Tomorrow we're
> > supposed to have -35 wind chills. The high on Saturday is supposed to be 10 and sunny so I may
> > venture out.
>
> A veritable heat spell - shorts and a tank top? We are back in the 20's.

They're predicting 20's for next week. I'm already going through my schedule to see what I can
cancel to get in an after work run.

> > treadmills at the place I go blew up the other night and it's going to
be a
> > while before it's fixed or replaced so I have to suck up and deal with
the
> > cold if I want to accomplish my training goals.
>
> And these training goals are?????

I'm not sure really. I plan to run a few 5K's, but mostly 10K's this summer and my first half
marathon in Sept. The fall will be mostly cross country trail races (5 & 10K's). Long term goal is
to complete a marathon. I'm trying to increase my overall fitness level and avoid injury. I'm 37
years old and just started running last summer because I finally lost enough weight to do it and I
really enjoy it. In addition to running 15-20 mi a week I do weight training 3x a week.

> As Dot asked, let us know how they work on pure ice. I have been using them on snow covered ice
> which works well so far. Good luck and have fun.

I dont' get much pure ice, but there will be packed snow. I'll keep ya posted.

Jenn
 
JMA wrote:
> "Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:rToSb.34974$6O4.971598@bgtnsc04-
> news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>>JMA wrote:
>>
>>>"Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:p[email protected]...
>>
>>>I live near the ski area and plan to train there regularly this spring and summer :)
>>
>>Is there any reason why you can't run there now - assuming you stay out of ski tracks? Different
>>ski areas are different, but our local etiquette is that snowshoers can use trails as long as they
>>stay off the tracks. However, there's been occasional horses, people, and dogs there, so it's a
>>little pockmarked outside the tracks, but not bad.
>
>
> The snow is rather deep. I can snowshoe there. The folks that run the place prefer snowshoers. I'm
> going there to ski this weekend and I'll take a look around.

Try snowshoe running! That's a blast. Not sure if you have traditional wooden snowshoes, newer
recreational metal ones, or racing shoes. If the racing snowshoes don't provide enough flotation,
you could do laps in one area - walk one to pack snow a little, then with each lap gradually add
some running as the loose snow becomes less deep with each passage. If it's groomed trails, then the
depth probably won't be an issue with snowshoes. But recognize that it does use some different
muscles, so be sure to build time like with running.

If you don't mind me asking, are you in northern Canada (obviously not too far north if you've got
logging roads), by any chance? Everything exceept your use of snowmobile rather than snowmachine
suggests Alaska, so Canada (or maybe Minnesota) is my next guess. That would also help to clarify
whether 0 is F or C ;) I've got some links for US snowshoe stuff, and somebody in another group
posted a link for some BC (I think) races, but that might have some links elsewhere in Canada.
>

> On the bigger lakes where snowmobiles are allowed, they have actual trails marked with cones
> because the lakes are full of ice shacks and guys in trucks.

Boy, this sounds so much like the large lakes around here with all the traffic.

>
> It's snow on ice, but I'm sure it's polished with the wind we're having. I've taken a few walks
> in my mukluks, but not since the latest snowfalls. That's kind of what gave me the idea to run
> out there.

If you've got much snow over the ice, you might try snowshoe running there also, since they have
crampons on the bottom. But with thin snow over ice, I'm guessing the screws are going to be the
best 1st shot.
>
>
>>Winter can be a truly enjoyable time to run outside *after* one has the gear figured out.
>
>
> I'm in that process now, figuring it all out. My first race this year is a 5 mile at the beginning
> of March about 100 miles south of here so there won't be any snow. I need to get outdoors to get
> my lungs acclimated to the cold, dry air or it's not going to be a fun day.

Enjoy! That's the thing that's fun about winter running, trying to figure out a lot of this stuff
(says I after finally *beginning* to get a handle on this during my 2nd actual winter). If you want
any hints, let me know. You sound like you're a good experimenter and problem solver. I started
putting together a bunch of thoughts several weeks ago (hadn't posted it since I was looking for
some documentation to back up thoughts) after I started feeling like I was starting to get a handle
on things - at least for short time periods (<2 hrs) in the -20F and warmer range, although probably
works a little colder also.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
JMA wrote:
> I'm going to look into the possibility of running on the ski and snowshoe trails. We have hundreds
> of them here also.

Without posting your home address roughly where do you live. Looks like German ISP feed.

> My husband also reminded me that there are a bunch of logging roads with no traffic on the
> weekends. I'm going to check out a few places this weekend.

Logging roads etc. are easiest to find and follow in the winter once someone directs you a general
area. The indentation of the road kind of stands out when the leaves are off the trees. I have found
some of the neatest trails/roads in the winter with an access point off a main or secondary road
because the trees are leaf free.

>
> Absolutely. For whatever reason, I'm totally into it. When I did that race in November, I cussed
> my way through the first mile, halfway through the second mile I was planning how to train for the
> next one, and by the end I wanted to do it all over again, even though I was pretty wrecked.

Yup, initial imbalance and one step short of the lobotomy. Running on trails regardless of the
season is such a blast. As you'll note over time that it's not just good for head but the body.
Please note that you will build muscle strength as you efforts continue and your weight will
redistribute. So don't don't go nuts because your working your butt off and the scale doesn't show
what you think is enough weight loss. Take your dimensions from time to time as a better indicator
of progress.

> I'm not sure really. I plan to run a few 5K's, but mostly 10K's this summer and my first half
> marathon in Sept. The fall will be mostly cross country trail races (5 & 10K's). Long term goal is
> to complete a marathon. I'm trying to increase my overall fitness level and avoid injury. I'm 37
> years old and just started running last summer because I finally lost enough weight to do it and I
> really enjoy it. In addition to running 15-20 mi a week I do weight training 3x a week.

You are on the right track!!! Just don't freeze any parts that you might need another day. :)

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
 
Doug Freese wrote:

> I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described in
> http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a
> slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn't happen at
> least for the short sections of bare road. Would a longer run have some negative results, remains
> to be seen.

Funny, I did the same thing last weekend, Doug. Spent 90 cents on 20 screws 3/8" long, screwed them
into an old pair of running shoes. A few of them went thru into my foot while running and I had to
take them out. But the majority were fine, except for one thing.

They didn't do anything. In any depth of snow (1 inch or more of packed snow), my feet still slid
around. On solid pavement, they were equally unhelpful. Absolutely no benefit in my experiment.
Perhaps on a sheet of ice they'd prove helpful.

-- Josh
 
Josh Steinberg wrote:

> Funny, I did the same thing last weekend, Doug. Spent 90 cents on 20 screws 3/8" long,
Just curious, were they hex washer head screws? I can see where flat or rounded head would be of
little value.

screwed them into an old pair of running shoes. A few
> of them went thru into my foot while running and I had to take them out. But the majority were
> fine, except for one thing.
>
> They didn't do anything. In any depth of snow (1 inch or more of packed snow), my feet still slid
> around. On solid pavement, they were equally unhelpful. Absolutely no benefit in my experiment.
> Perhaps on a sheet of ice they'd prove helpful.

Interesting.. I used them originally in 1 inch of slippery snow on top of blacktop and they held
tight. Then I used them on rough trail with 10 inches of snow last Wednesday and the only time
they slipped was when the trail had a heavy camber. Maybe my 175 pound fat ass with shuffling
style helped.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
 
"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Try snowshoe running! That's a blast. Not sure if you have traditional wooden snowshoes, newer
> recreational metal ones, or racing shoes. If the racing snowshoes don't provide enough flotation,
> you could do laps in one area - walk one to pack snow a little, then with each lap gradually add
> some running as the loose snow becomes less deep with each passage. If it's groomed trails, then
> the depth probably won't be an issue with snowshoes. But recognize that it does use some different
> muscles, so be sure to build time like with running.
>
We have the big wooden shoes. Finally got enough snow to take them out around the house (13 acres of
woods), but I haven't had the time.

> If you don't mind me asking, are you in northern Canada (obviously not too far north if you've got
> logging roads), by any chance? Everything exceept your use of snowmobile rather than snowmachine
> suggests Alaska, so Canada (or maybe Minnesota) is my next guess. That would also help to clarify
> whether 0 is F or C ;) I've got some links for US snowshoe stuff, and somebody in another group
> posted a link for some BC (I think) races, but that might have some links elsewhere in Canada.
> >

I'm in northern Wisconsin, close to the UP of Michigan and a bit south of Lake Superior so my temps
are F not C. Where in Alaska are you? My husband loves it up there and wants us to move there (not
going to happen).

> Enjoy! That's the thing that's fun about winter running, trying to figure out a lot of this stuff
> (says I after finally *beginning* to get a handle on this during my 2nd actual winter). If you
> want any hints, let me know. You sound like you're a good experimenter and problem solver. I
> started putting together a bunch of thoughts several weeks ago (hadn't posted it since I was
> looking for some documentation to back up thoughts) after I started feeling like I was starting to
> get a handle on things - at least for short time periods (<2 hrs) in the -20F and warmer range,
> although probably works a little colder also.
>

I'm just not butch enough to get out in subzero temps, especially with the wind we're dealing with
here. I'm also not really equipped yet since I'm still rather new to the stuff. Even the diehards
are coming in to use the treadmill - which is seriously cutting into *my* time on it :p We're not
supposed to go below 0F again for a few days at least so I'm hoping next weekend I'll be able to get
out since this week is already booked solid every day after work while it is still light out.

Jenn
 
"Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> JMA wrote:
> > I'm going to look into the possibility of running on the ski and
snowshoe
> > trails. We have hundreds of them here also.
>
> Without posting your home address roughly where do you live. Looks like German ISP feed.

I'm in northern Wisconsin, close to the UP of Michigan and a bit south of Lake Superior.

> Logging roads etc. are easiest to find and follow in the winter once someone directs you a general
> area. The indentation of the road kind of stands out when the leaves are off the trees. I have
> found some of the neatest trails/roads in the winter with an access point off a main or secondary
> road because the trees are leaf free.

As the days get a little longer it will be easier for me to get outdoors more often.

> Yup, initial imbalance and one step short of the lobotomy. Running on trails regardless of the
> season is such a blast. As you'll note over time that it's not just good for head but the body.
> Please note that you will build muscle strength as you efforts continue and your weight will
> redistribute. So don't don't go nuts because your working your butt off and the scale doesn't show
> what you think is enough weight loss. Take your dimensions from time to time as a better indicator
> of progress.

I just finished losing nearly half my body weight. The weight control is a nice side effect from
running, but not my primary reason for running. I've taken up weight training to build some muscle
mass and strength to go along with my fabulous CV system. I also do rock wall climbing, play
volleyball, do yoga, and use the elliptical so I'm getting a variety of activity to help stay in
shape. This is probably why I don't have more time to add to my running training right now :) Once
the mornings are tolerable, I can go back to running before work which will be a godsend as far as
time is concerned.

Thanks again for the info and encouragement!

Jenn
 
JMA wrote:

> "Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:76ISb.38435$6O4.1090939@bgtnsc04-
> news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> We have the big wooden shoes. Finally got enough snow to take them out around the house (13 acres
> of woods), but I haven't had the time.

Ah, don't worry about snowshoe running this year then. Sounds like you've got enough new things with
running. Even walking with snowshoes makes a nice day in the woods though.
>
>
> I'm in northern Wisconsin, close to the UP of Michigan and a bit south of Lake Superior so my
> temps are F not C. Where in Alaska are you? My husband loves it up there and wants us to move
> there (not going to happen).

I'm in southcentral, about 40 mi NE of Anchorage - in the banana belt. Actually, you may have colder
weather where you are. Some of the area where I am was colonized in the 1930's during the Great
Depression by farmers from Wisconsin and Minnesota - an agricultural experiment since the climate
was similar - except for the daylight hours.

>
> I'm just not butch enough to get out in subzero temps, especially with the wind we're dealing with
> here. I'm also not really equipped yet since I'm still rather new to the stuff.

Not a problem. Take your time learning new stuff. It sounds like the running itself right now keeps
you busy in addition to your other activities.

We're not
> supposed to go below 0F again for a few days at least so I'm hoping next weekend I'll be able to
> get out since this week is already booked solid every day after work while it is still light out.

That'll be nice. Enjoy.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
 
Doug Freese wrote:

> Josh Steinberg wrote:
>
> > Funny, I did the same thing last weekend, Doug. Spent 90 cents on 20 screws 3/8" long,
> Just curious, were they hex washer head screws? I can see where flat or rounded head would be of
> little value.

Both! I bought 10 of each, couldn't decide which to use, so I decided to use both. 5 of each on the
sole of each shoe. Turns out I used the hex-head screws in the middle and lateral aspects of each
sole, round heads on medial edge. It's those medial edge ones that poked through into my foot and
had to be removed around mile 2 of 5. So I was running with 5 hex screws and 2 round heads in each
sole the rest of the way.

I don't think there's much difference between the two heads, actually. I think any metal with a gash
down the middle (for screwdriver) driven down into snow/ice with hundreds of pounds of weight from
above has just as good or bad a chance of providing footing. Maybe the hex heads are slightly better
in theory for this, but they sure didn't help me none.

> Interesting.. I used them originally in 1 inch of slippery snow on top of blacktop and they held
> tight. Then I used them on rough trail with 10 inches of snow last Wednesday and the only time
> they slipped was when the trail had a heavy camber. Maybe my 175 pound fat ass with shuffling
> style helped.

And my 170 lb tuchas (yiddish) is any different?? I'll give my screwshoes another try sometime this
winter, maybe when there's more ice than snow or slush to contend with and see if they are helpful
then. -- Josh in Syracuse, 137" snow for the season and counting
 
For years, I've given up hiking on the local trails where the author of the "screw shoe" website
runs. I don't like falling on an icy trail.

I've tried various expensive gadgets such as yaktrax and similar things... I've not been satisfied.
About 2 months ago, I found Matt Carpenter's article (mentioned below). I put the screws in my
hiking boots, I've got "screw boots". It's an amazing experience!!! I now can hike the trails here
in Colorado all year long!!!! I actually stop people on the Barr Trail and tell them how well it
works. And IT'S CHEAP!!!

Try them, I'm sure you won't be disappointed!!!

"Tim Downie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
berlin.de...
> Doug Freese wrote:
>
> > Screwed. I finally broke down and put some screws into and old pair of shoes. Last night we got
> > maybe an inch of dry snow. If you ski you would be happy but for running it really sucks.
> >
> > I broke down and spent about $1.50 for some 3/8" screws as described in
> > http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm They worked great! I did 5 miles and not so much as a
> > slip. I thought the screw heads might present a awkward feel on dry road but it didn't happen at
> > least for the short sections of bare road. Would a longer run have some negative results,
> > remains to be seen.
>
> Does anyone know where one can buy these screws on-line (preferably in the UK)? I've done all my
> local hardware stores and searched the net for suppliers but I can't find a supplier anywhere.
>
> Tim
> --
> Remove the obvious to reply by email. Please support rheumatoid arthritis research! Visit
> http://www.justgiving.com/pfp/speyside or http://www,justgiving.com/speyside if you're a UK
> tax payer.