Seat - Bar height

[[email protected]]

Sorry to bug everyone again.

The LBS I bought my bike from obviously saw a newby coming from a long
way off. I bought an off the rack 60cm GTR Series 2 for around $1500.

After setting my seat height so my knees/feet/legs are right, I find
the top of the saddle is 13cm higher than the bars. I've already
replaced the stem to one that has a fairly large rise on it.

I figure I can do one of the following
- Get a larger frame This one is 60cm standard frame.
- Buy a new uncut fork and place spacers on it to get the bars
up.
- Live with it and learn to bend.

Given tha I expect some cash courtesy of the ATO in July, would
spending a grand or so on a new larger frame and fork, and then
shifting all the components across (mix of Ultegra and 105, FSA cranks
and BB) be a better option than patching up the current frame? I toyed
with buying a larger frame with cruddy components, but then I will end
up with a cheap frame.

Any suggestions?

 

[MikeyOz]

Sorry to bug everyone again.

The LBS I bought my bike from obviously saw a newby coming from a long
way off. I bought an off the rack 60cm GTR Series 2 for around $1500.

After setting my seat height so my knees/feet/legs are right, I find
the top of the saddle is 13cm higher than the bars. I've already
replaced the stem to one that has a fairly large rise on it.

I figure I can do one of the following
- Get a larger frame This one is 60cm standard frame.
- Buy a new uncut fork and place spacers on it to get the bars
up.
- Live with it and learn to bend.

Given tha I expect some cash courtesy of the ATO in July, would
spending a grand or so on a new larger frame and fork, and then
shifting all the components across (mix of Ultegra and 105, FSA cranks
and BB) be a better option than patching up the current frame? I toyed
with buying a larger frame with cruddy components, but then I will end
up with a cheap frame.

Any suggestions?

Sounds like you have had the bike for a while ?? I'd be going back and telling them where to put their bike, any chance of going back and saying, Im not happy please sort me out and come to some sort of half way meeting point ?

Most LBS unless they really want to hurt their reputation will come to the party someway or another.

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 6, 12:47 pm, MikeyOz <MikeyOz.2lk...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> [email protected] Wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sorry to bug everyone again.
>
> > The LBS I bought my bike from obviously saw a newby coming from a long
> > way off. I bought an off the rack 60cm GTR Series 2 for around $1500.
>
> > After setting my seat height so my knees/feet/legs are right, I find
> > the top of the saddle is 13cm higher than the bars. I've already
> > replaced the stem to one that has a fairly large rise on it.
>
> > I figure I can do one of the following
> > - Get a larger frame This one is 60cm standard frame.
> > - Buy a new uncut fork and place spacers on it to get the bars
> > up.
> > - Live with it and learn to bend.
>
> > Given tha I expect some cash courtesy of the ATO in July, would
> > spending a grand or so on a new larger frame and fork, and then
> > shifting all the components across (mix of Ultegra and 105, FSA cranks
> > and BB) be a better option than patching up the current frame? I toyed
> > with buying a larger frame with cruddy components, but then I will end
> > up with a cheap frame.
>
> > Any suggestions?
>
> Sounds like you have had the bike for a while ?? I'd be going back and
> telling them where to put their bike, any chance of going back and
> saying, Im not happy please sort me out and come to some sort of half
> way meeting point ?
>
> Most LBS unless they really want to hurt their reputation will come to
> the party someway or another.
>
> --
> MikeyOz- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I've had the bike around 10mnths now, MIkeyOz. I've only just starting
riding the thing more frequently. I did abour 80km in six months, now
I'm getting up to 80km a week, mostly on the trainer. It's only been
the last six weeks that I have been tinkering and finding out more
about seat position, height, etc. But the frame I bought doesn't come
any larger than 60cm, and I'm not interested in any other brands he
has in store.

I figure its an education cost.

 

[Donga]

On Feb 5, 10:38 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Sorry to bug everyone again.
>
> The LBS I bought my bike from obviously saw a newby coming from a long
> way off. I bought an off the rack 60cm GTR Series 2 for around $1500.
>
> After setting my seat height so my knees/feet/legs are right, I find
> the top of the saddle is 13cm higher than the bars. I've already
> replaced the stem to one that has a fairly large rise on it.
>
> I figure I can do one of the following
> - Get a larger frame This one is 60cm standard frame.
> - Buy a new uncut fork and place spacers on it to get the bars
> up.
> - Live with it and learn to bend.
>
> Given tha I expect some cash courtesy of the ATO in July, would
> spending a grand or so on a new larger frame and fork, and then
> shifting all the components across (mix of Ultegra and 105, FSA cranks
> and BB) be a better option than patching up the current frame? I toyed
> with buying a larger frame with cruddy components, but then I will end
> up with a cheap frame.
>
> Any suggestions?

Have a look at Sheldon Brown's advice:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/stems/index.html#raisers

How long ago did you buy it? If you can't get it right, and the shop
was advising you as a clear novice to buy the bke, rather than you
ignoring their advice that the bike wasn't right, have a think about
asking for a refund. Your state office of Fair Trading could advise
you. We are legally entitled for goods to be "fit for purpose", but
the law protects you against unscrupulous vendors, not against
yourself!

donga

 

[Paulie-AU]

How tall are you?

Is it a proper roadie? From the sounds of the groupo it is.

I would say that my seat would be around the same height above my bars and isnt a problem. My XC MTB also has the seat higher than the bars.

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 6, 1:10 pm, "Donga" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 10:38 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sorry to bug everyone again.
>
> > The LBS I bought my bike from obviously saw a newby coming from a long
> > way off. I bought an off the rack 60cm GTR Series 2 for around $1500.
>
> > After setting my seat height so my knees/feet/legs are right, I find
> > the top of the saddle is 13cm higher than the bars. I've already
> > replaced the stem to one that has a fairly large rise on it.
>
> > I figure I can do one of the following
> > - Get a larger frame This one is 60cm standard frame.
> > - Buy a new uncut fork and place spacers on it to get the bars
> > up.
> > - Live with it and learn to bend.
>
> > Given tha I expect some cash courtesy of the ATO in July, would
> > spending a grand or so on a new larger frame and fork, and then
> > shifting all the components across (mix of Ultegra and 105, FSA cranks
> > and BB) be a better option than patching up the current frame? I toyed
> > with buying a larger frame with cruddy components, but then I will end
> > up with a cheap frame.
>
> > Any suggestions?
>
> Have a look at Sheldon Brown's advice:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/stems/index.html#raisers
>
> How long ago did you buy it? If you can't get it right, and the shop
> was advising you as a clear novice to buy the bke, rather than you
> ignoring their advice that the bike wasn't right, have a think about
> asking for a refund. Your state office of Fair Trading could advise
> you. We are legally entitled for goods to be "fit for purpose", but
> the law protects you against unscrupulous vendors, not against
> yourself!
>
> donga- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I can guarantee that there was no advice as to the bike being not
right. It was more along the lines of 'That's a 58cm, you'll probably
need a larger one. They do a 60cm, that should be about right.' When
it arrived I asked if we needed to be fitted properly, and he said
'Everything looks about right, just sit on it (which I did) no, looks
fine. Good riding!)

I replaced the stem and got a new 400mm long seatpost (the stock one
was about 250mm long) after asking another LBS whether it fitted
right. Again, it's an education cost.

I don't think that my case is entirely unusual, there's many a bike on
eBay with the sales pitch being 'I'm selling this because it's one
size too small/large'. I realise that it isn't a precise science, but
I also don't think that the care that should have been taken, was
taken. By both parties in the transaction.

Brendo

 

[[email protected]]

On Feb 6, 1:15 pm, Paulie-AU <Paulie-AU.2lk...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> How tall are you?
>
> Is it a proper roadie? From the sounds of the groupo it is.
>
> I would say that my seat would be around the same height above my bars
> and isnt a problem. My XC MTB also has the seat higher than the bars.
>
> --
> Paulie-AU

I'm 195cm (6'4") with a 91cm inseam.

The bike is a roady. The seat being above the bars does not concern
me, it's how much above the bars that does. I guess I am just trying
to be sure that everything fits properly and that I am getting the
most out of the bike.

Brendo

 

[rooman]

On Feb 6, 1:15 pm, Paulie-AU <Paulie-AU.2lk...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> How tall are you?
>
> Is it a proper roadie? From the sounds of the groupo it is.
>
> I would say that my seat would be around the same height above my bars
> and isnt a problem. My XC MTB also has the seat higher than the bars.
>
> --
> Paulie-AU

I'm 195cm (6'4") with a 91cm inseam.

The bike is a roady. The seat being above the bars does not concern
me, it's how much above the bars that does. I guess I am just trying
to be sure that everything fits properly and that I am getting the
most out of the bike.

Brendo

Sheldon has some good info and links on this page that might help inform.

http://tinyurl.com/ojshv

Similar experience , but I also had pain and shimmey, (bike too small , fit all wrong) I bit the bullet (& my ATO cheque too) & had my bike fit dimensions determined...and charted on paper that I could keep, so now armed with that I can happily check any potential frame and accessories with precision.

Knowing my dimensions also helps me reset my bikes when I travel and if I have to pack any down into a box, (which almost amounts to a full rebuild each time)then the dimension chart allows it to be rebuilt right.

I guess all we can do is aim for a place to start and as we age, get fitter or unfitter, flexible or less flexible, make adjustments to suit by changes to stem and seat posts and setback...

it is a dynamic thing, that's why I like to have a check on position when anything is going on that calls for it (new frame, newer pedals, new shoes, new saddle, new stem etc)...good luck and happy playing .

 

[Bleve]

On Feb 6, 2:38 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Sorry to bug everyone again.
>
> The LBS I bought my bike from obviously saw a newby coming from a long
> way off. I bought an off the rack 60cm GTR Series 2 for around $1500.
>
> After setting my seat height so my knees/feet/legs are right, I find
> the top of the saddle is 13cm higher than the bars. I've already
> replaced the stem to one that has a fairly large rise on it.
>
> I figure I can do one of the following
> - Get a larger frame This one is 60cm standard frame.
> - Buy a new uncut fork and place spacers on it to get the bars
> up.
> - Live with it and learn to bend.
>
> Given tha I expect some cash courtesy of the ATO in July, would
> spending a grand or so on a new larger frame and fork, and then
> shifting all the components across (mix of Ultegra and 105, FSA cranks
> and BB) be a better option than patching up the current frame? I toyed
> with buying a larger frame with cruddy components, but then I will end
> up with a cheap frame.
>
> Any suggestions?

It's difficult to make any concrete suggestions without seeing you and
the bike (ideally, together!), but you can experiment with a stem
extender which you can use to raise your bars. There may be a lot of
other things going on too though, so just raising the bars may or may
not be an ideal approach. There's so many things to consider with bike
fit, including your fitness, flexibility, type of riding, chronic
injuries, size of beergut etc I'd suggest seeing a coach or a good
LBS (one that has a fitting person, someone that specialises in fits)
or even (depending on where you are in Australia) John Kennedy (Melb)
or Steve Hogg in Sydney. Often it is possible to make a frame fit,
with more or less hacking about (one hint, moving the saddle back
effectively raises it, sometimes a setback post can make a surprising
difference)

 

[Brendo]

> It's difficult to make any concrete suggestions without seeing you and
> the bike (ideally, together!), but you can experiment with a stem
> extender which you can use to raise your bars. There may be a lot of
> other things going on too though, so just raising the bars may or may
> not be an ideal approach. There's so many things to consider with bike
> fit, including your fitness, flexibility, type of riding, chronic
> injuries, size of beergut etc I'd suggest seeing a coach or a good
> LBS (one that has a fitting person, someone that specialises in fits)
> or even (depending on where you are in Australia) John Kennedy (Melb)
> or Steve Hogg in Sydney. Often it is possible to make a frame fit,
> with more or less hacking about (one hint, moving the saddle back
> effectively raises it, sometimes a setback post can make a surprising
> difference)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

including your fitness, low. Starting out slowly
flexibility, similar to a lump of jarrah
type of riding, 15km loops in evening, possibly larger
ones (30-50km) on weekend, possible crit and road racing
chronic injuries, none that I know of
size of beergut reasonable, but I don't drink beer.
Let's call it a tubby gut.

I think the LBS looks like the best place to go first, and see if they
have an opinion. Either way, I'd still like to upgrade the frame and
transfer the components.

Brendo

 

[Nick Payne]

Try a Surly pacer frame. A no ******** well-thought-out frame that's not too
expensive. They come in sizes up to 62cm, and there's a rise on the top tube
and an extension on the head tube to make the head tube about as long as a
66cm frame with a horizontal top tube. The steerer is also steel, meaning
you can stack a whole raft of spacers under the stem to raise it without
running into potential steerer failure problems that you can get with carbon
or aluminium steerers if excessive spacers are used (see
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=115, which recommends a
maximum of 20mm of spacers).

The only downside is that being steel it's heavier than what you have. But
people overemphasise weight. If you weigh 80kg and your bike 10kg, then an
extra 1kg in the bike frame is just over a 1% difference.

Nick

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry to bug everyone again.
>
> The LBS I bought my bike from obviously saw a newby coming from a long
> way off. I bought an off the rack 60cm GTR Series 2 for around $1500.
>
> After setting my seat height so my knees/feet/legs are right, I find
> the top of the saddle is 13cm higher than the bars. I've already
> replaced the stem to one that has a fairly large rise on it.
>
> I figure I can do one of the following
> - Get a larger frame This one is 60cm standard frame.
> - Buy a new uncut fork and place spacers on it to get the bars
> up.
> - Live with it and learn to bend.
>
> Given tha I expect some cash courtesy of the ATO in July, would
> spending a grand or so on a new larger frame and fork, and then
> shifting all the components across (mix of Ultegra and 105, FSA cranks
> and BB) be a better option than patching up the current frame? I toyed
> with buying a larger frame with cruddy components, but then I will end
> up with a cheap frame.

 

[btc]

Nick Payne wrote:

> Try a Surly pacer frame. A no ******** well-thought-out frame that's not
> too expensive. They come in sizes up to 62cm, and there's a rise on the
> top tube and an extension on the head tube to make the head tube about as
> long as a 66cm frame with a horizontal top tube. The steerer is also
> steel, meaning you can stack a whole raft of spacers under the stem to
> raise it without running into potential steerer failure problems that you
> can get with carbon or aluminium steerers if excessive spacers are used
> (see http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=115, which recommends
> a maximum of 20mm of spacers).
>
> The only downside is that being steel it's heavier than what you have. But
> people overemphasise weight. If you weigh 80kg and your bike 10kg, then an
> extra 1kg in the bike frame is just over a 1% difference.

Are the Pacers being imported into Australia at the moment? It look a bit
like the local distributor may not have been bringing them in.

 

[Paulie-AU]

Measured my bike last night.


My bars are 105mm lower than my seat. I am 174cm tall. I have an arm span of 184cm.

When I got back on my bike I didn't feel comfortable on the drops. I made myself spend a bit of time on them and now it isn't a problem. I also started stretching again so my flexibility is slowly improving.

Moving your seat forward 5mm can make a fair difference. I moved mine forward 10mm from initial set up (using plumb bob from front of knee to axel) and I am now more comfortable (knee not giving issues) and seem to be able to use my (limited) power better.

Best thing would be to go and get a proper bike fit. Someone who isn't selling bikes would give you a less biased opinion. Then decide if you were sold the wrong bike.

You might be differently proportioned and no off the shelf bike may fit you.

 

[Boostland]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry to bug everyone again.
>
> The LBS I bought my bike from obviously saw a newby coming from a long
> way off. I bought an off the rack 60cm GTR Series 2 for around $1500.
>
> After setting my seat height so my knees/feet/legs are right, I find
> the top of the saddle is 13cm higher than the bars. I've already
> replaced the stem to one that has a fairly large rise on it.
>
> I figure I can do one of the following
> - Get a larger frame This one is 60cm standard frame.
> - Buy a new uncut fork and place spacers on it to get the bars
> up.
> - Live with it and learn to bend.
>
> Given tha I expect some cash courtesy of the ATO in July, would
> spending a grand or so on a new larger frame and fork, and then
> shifting all the components across (mix of Ultegra and 105, FSA cranks
> and BB) be a better option than patching up the current frame? I toyed
> with buying a larger frame with cruddy components, but then I will end
> up with a cheap frame.
>
> Any suggestions?
>

I am 193 cm tall have a 90 cm inseam.

My road bike is a compact 54 cm top bar 51 cm seat tube ( equates to a 56 cm
/ 56 cm non compact ) with a 14 cm stem and cinelli criterium bars.

My track bike is a 59 cm top bar 59 cm seat tube Hillbrick, with a 12 cm
stem with low drop Nitto steel keiren bars.

On both bikes I have 82 cm from bottom bracket to seat center ( 172.5
cranks ) and the tops of my bars are around 13 cm lower than the seat top,
and from rear of seat to the center of the drop of the bars is 100 cm.

I went to Hillbrick and was fitted up with Pauls adjustable bike to make
sure my position was correct for the new bike I had ordered, as it turned
out the position he said was correct for me was the same as I have been
using for around 18 years.

I did have some problems with the lower drops when I started riding again
after a long break as I had a bit of a spare tyre around my gut.
This was preventing me from bending enough to be comfortable in my drops, so
for a few months I was using a slightly higher position and not using the
drops very much.
After I burned off a lot of the gut I could go back to my proper position
and use the drops for most of the race ( being tall I need to be in them
when trying to hold a wheel in the higher grades when the pace is on ).

From what it sounds like your position is pretty close and you just need to
learn to bend a bit more or lose some spare tyres