seat post height question-how high?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by anerobic, Dec 22, 2004.

  1. anerobic

    anerobic New Member

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    my impression is that the higher you can put your seatpost, the more efficient your pedal stroke will be, since you get better extension. obviously at some point you can get into hyper-extension pain at the back of your knee if it's too high. is that the correct thinking, or is there some other height that works better? i raise mine up little by little until it starts to hurt behind my knees after a ride, then lower it a few mm. i see people riding who effectively have much lower seat heights but since they're riding with me i don't make any suggestions....all thoughts and experiences appreciated. thanks
     
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  2. A shy person write:

    > My impression is that the higher you can put your seatpost, the more
    > efficient your pedal stroke will be, since you get better extension.
    > Obviously at some point you can get into hyper-extension pain at the
    > back of your knee if it's too high. Is that the correct thinking, or
    > is there some other height that works better? I raise mine up little
    > by little until it starts to hurt behind my knees after a ride, then
    > lower it a few mm. I see people riding who effectively have much lower
    > seat heights but since they're riding with me I don't make any
    > suggestions... all thoughts and experiences appreciated.


    From what I see when out riding is that your idea is prevalent among
    riders. There is a fairly simple test, even if the person making the
    fit is not practiced in the art. If the hips swivel while pedaling,
    seen from behind, then the saddle is too high. Of course there are
    exceptions for people who have some physical handicap but the hip
    swivel test is a good one for physically adept people.

    Often, too low a position comes from fear of falling or not being able
    to reach the road with the feet. The best fit can easily be gotten by
    having a person skilled in the art watch while the person rides, even
    at a slow pace. "Fit Kit" tries to quantify that so this does not
    need a field test that may not give useful results. An observer must
    know what to look for. Swiveling hips and too long a reach to the
    bars are sure indicators.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  3. RE/
    >my impression is that the higher you can put your seatpost, the more
    >efficient your pedal stroke will be, since you get better extension...

    ......all thoughts and experiences appreciated. thanks

    Start with a height that lets you sit on the saddle, heel on the pedal, knee
    locked. That will give you a little bend in the knee when you're actually
    pedaling with ball of foot on pedal.

    Then go up/down from there as suites you.

    Personally, I find 1/4" differences tb significant....maybe even 1/8"...so we're
    not talking about a lot of deviation from the heel-on-pedal-knee-locked starting
    point.

    For rough ground, I might drop it a quarter or even a half inch. Raise it
    upwards at your own risk. What feels better for a few minutes can have
    negative consequences on your plumbing over the long run.

    --
    PeteCresswell
     
  4. ritcho

    ritcho New Member

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    An recent article on cyclingnews.com might help:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=2004/letters12-20

    Ritch
     
  5. peet9471

    peet9471 New Member

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    Get off your butt and ride. The seat is only there to protect the seat post from dissappearing when you go over a bump in the road.
     
  6. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:33:54 GMT, [email protected]
    wrote:

    >From what I see when out riding is that your idea is prevalent among
    >riders. There is a fairly simple test, even if the person making the
    >fit is not practiced in the art. If the hips swivel while pedaling,
    >seen from behind, then the saddle is too high. Of course there are
    >exceptions for people who have some physical handicap but the hip
    >swivel test is a good one for physically adept people.


    I find that you saddle can be too high even though your hips don't
    swivel. If the seat is a bit too high, you get pulled more toward the
    point of the saddle to make the distance to the pedals shorter.

    I find the when my leg is extended and I can just drop my heal below
    the pedal axel by hyperextenting my leg, the seat is at proper height.
    Said simply, my leg is slightly bent at bottom of stroke.
     
  7. On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:02:56 +1100, anerobic
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    <
    <my impression is that the higher you can put your seatpost, the more
    <efficient your pedal stroke will be, since you get better extension.
    <obviously at some point you can get into hyper-extension pain at the
    <back of your knee if it's too high. is that the correct thinking, or
    <is there some other height that works better? i raise mine up little
    <by little until it starts to hurt behind my knees after a ride, then
    <lower it a few mm. i see people riding who effectively have much lower
    <seat heights but since they're riding with me i don't make any
    <suggestions....all thoughts and experiences appreciated.

    Greg Lemond(with Kent Gordis) writes on this subject in Complete Book of
    Bicycling. He notes what you you have written and makes similar suggestions.
     
  8. Ritch O? writes:

    >>> My impression is that the higher you can put your seatpost, the
    >>> more efficient your pedal stroke will be, since you get better
    >>> extension. Obviously at some point you can get into
    >>> hyper-extension pain at the back of your knee if it's too high.
    >>> Is that the correct thinking, or is there some other height that
    >>> works better? I raise mine up little by little until it starts to
    >>> hurt behind my knees after a ride, then lower it a few mm. I see
    >>> people riding who effectively have much lower seat heights but
    >>> since they're riding with me I don't make any suggestions... all
    >>> thoughts and experiences appreciated.


    >> From what I see when out riding is that your idea is prevalent
    >> among riders. There is a fairly simple test, even if the person
    >> making the fit is not practiced in the art. If the hips swivel
    >> while pedaling, seen from behind, then the saddle is too high. Of
    >> course there are exceptions for people who have some physical
    >> handicap but the hip swivel test is a good one for physically adept
    >> people.


    >> Often, too low a position comes from fear of falling or not being
    >> able to reach the road with the feet. The best fit can easily be
    >> gotten by having a person skilled in the art watch while the person
    >> rides, even at a slow pace. "Fit Kit" tries to quantify that so
    >> this does not need a field test that may not give useful results.
    >> An observer must know what to look for. Swiveling hips and too
    >> long a reach to the bars are sure indicators.


    > An recent article on cyclingnews.com might help:


    http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=2004/letters12-20

    What in this article did you find interesting enough to recommend that
    we read the thread? To me it seems to beat around the bush and dodge
    the real issues.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  9. Paul Kopit writes:

    >> From what I see when out riding is that your idea is prevalent
    >> among riders. There is a fairly simple test, even if the person
    >> making the fit is not practiced in the art. If the hips swivel
    >> while pedaling, seen from behind, then the saddle is too high. Of
    >> course there are exceptions for people who have some physical
    >> handicap but the hip swivel test is a good one for physically adept
    >> people.


    > I find that you saddle can be too high even though your hips don't
    > swivel. If the seat is a bit too high, you get pulled more toward
    > the point of the saddle to make the distance to the pedals shorter.


    I think you'll find that these folks have swiveling hips when they
    ride on the ideal spot on the saddle and that they will probably
    adjust their position more often if they slide forward, which is
    usually a sign of a forward tilting saddle rather than height
    adjustment.

    > I find the when my leg is extended and I can just drop my heal below
    > the pedal axle by hyperextending my leg, the seat is at proper
    > height. Said simply, my leg is slightly bent at bottom of stroke.


    This rule of thumb doesn't work because riders differ in their foot
    size and angle to the horizontal which would make that measure
    invalid. I was fortunate to have an expert adjust my bicycle merely
    from riding around the parking lot slowly and it has suited me well.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  10. Sandy

    Sandy Guest

    <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    news:[email protected]
    > Paul Kopit writes:


    >> I find the when my leg is extended and I can just drop my heal below
    >> the pedal axle by hyperextending my leg, the seat is at proper
    >> height. Said simply, my leg is slightly bent at bottom of stroke.

    >
    > This rule of thumb doesn't work because riders differ in their foot
    > size and angle to the horizontal which would make that measure
    > invalid. I was fortunate to have an expert adjust my bicycle merely
    > from riding around the parking lot slowly and it has suited me well.
    >
    > Jobst Brandt


    What's up - your way or wrong ?
    If you read and paid attention, you'd see Paul offered a general idea, not
    precise millimetric formulae, then offered a personal observation on his own
    geometry. He didn't offer a rule of thumb, and even if you take it that
    way, it is a supplement to your own personal anecdote of how to do it. Get
    over it - "The Book" doesn't mean you always have insight. Certainly you
    lack the ability to engage in two-way communication with anything less than
    gruff arrogance.
    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy
    Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
     
  11. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    Sandy wrote:
    > <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Paul Kopit writes:

    >
    >>> I find the when my leg is extended and I can just drop my heal below
    >>> the pedal axle by hyperextending my leg, the seat is at proper
    >>> height. Said simply, my leg is slightly bent at bottom of stroke.

    >>
    >> This rule of thumb doesn't work because riders differ in their foot
    >> size and angle to the horizontal which would make that measure
    >> invalid. I was fortunate to have an expert adjust my bicycle merely
    >> from riding around the parking lot slowly and it has suited me well.
    >>
    >> Jobst Brandt

    >
    > What's up - your way or wrong ?
    > If you read and paid attention, you'd see Paul offered a general
    > idea, not precise millimetric formulae, then offered a personal
    > observation on his own geometry. He didn't offer a rule of thumb,
    > and even if you take it that way, it is a supplement to your own
    > personal anecdote of how to do it. Get over it - "The Book" doesn't
    > mean you always have insight. Certainly you lack the ability to
    > engage in two-way communication with anything less than gruff
    > arrogance.


    In other breaking news, the sky is blue.
     
  12. leestevens

    leestevens New Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I tried the same but in reality this is not so. My knees started hurting, very sore back and neck. The seat was way to high. Don't mess with your seat hieght, go to a professional bike shop and get them to fit you up properly. I did, it was the best 35bucks i have spent on my bike. If not give this a go. http://www.strawberrybicycle.com/frames-custom.php
    The measurments from this matched up with what the bike shop gave me. See what you think. :D
     
  13. Sandy

    Sandy Guest

    "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    news:[email protected]


    > In other breaking news, the sky is blue.
    >

    Perhaps where you are ...
    But today is promising at 11C and rain.
    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy
    Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
     
  14. Jeff Starr

    Jeff Starr Guest

    On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:38:42 +1100, leestevens
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >


    >
    >I tried the same but in reality this is not so. My knees started
    >hurting, very sore back and neck. The seat was way to high. Don't mess
    >with your seat hieght, go to a professional bike shop and get them to
    >fit you up properly. I did, it was the best 35bucks i have spent on my
    >bike. If not give this a go.
    >http://www.strawberrybicycle.com/frames-custom.php
    >The measurments from this matched up with what the bike shop gave me.
    >See what you think. :D


    Unless you have money, to burn, adjusting your seat is something that
    you can do yourself.
    And if you buy the bike from a LBS, they will adjust it at no charge.


    Life is Good!
    Jeff
     
  15. anerobic wrote:

    > my impression is that the higher you can put your seatpost, the more
    > efficient your pedal stroke will be, since you get better extension.
    > obviously at some point you can get into hyper-extension pain at the
    > back of your knee if it's too high. is that the correct thinking, or
    > is there some other height that works better? i raise mine up little
    > by little until it starts to hurt behind my knees after a ride, then
    > lower it a few mm. i see people riding who effectively have much lower
    > seat heights but since they're riding with me i don't make any
    > suggestions....all thoughts and experiences appreciated. thanks
    >

    I think you have it just about right. An excellent indication that your
    saddle is too low is if you find you're pushing further back along the
    saddle when pedalling more powerfully (uphill or into a headwind).
     
  16. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    "Sandy" <[email protected]> writes:

    > "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    > : news:[email protected]
    >
    >> In other breaking news, the sky is blue.
    >>

    > Perhaps where you are ... But today is promising at 11C and rain.


    Then you may be having better cycling weather than us, with sunny
    skies but -2C currently. That'll probably be the high temp today.
     
  17. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    There's just no definitive way to determine saddle height, and I
    suppose it's quite possible that there is no definitive saddle height
    for any individual. Every cycling book offers a different method.
    There is the CONI method, the Guimard/Lemond/Hinault method, the
    heel-on-pedal method, the 105% of inseam method, the Eddy B (1) and
    Eddy B (2) methods, etc.

    My own opinion is that fit is a dynamic issue and simply measuring
    various skeletal dimensions only provides a starting point.
    Everyone's body mass distribution, strength in various limbs,
    flexibility, neck and back issues, etc all are factors in finding the
    right fit. I think the "right" fit is the one that lets you do your
    longest typical ride in comfort, with no neck, shoulder or back pain,
    no knee pain, no hand or wrist pain, etc. For most people this will
    not be an aerodynamic Euro road racer position.

    So pick any of the methods you want, recognize that they're nothing
    more than starting points, and then systematically vary adjustments
    until the bike feels good to ride. Or if you can have Mr. Cinelli
    adjust your fit for you, that'd be good too and would save you a lot
    of time. ;-) I didn't have that option and it took me 25 years of
    tweaking to find what seems like the "best" position for me. I
    haven't adjusted anything on my main two bikes for 5 years or more, so
    I guess it must be about right. FWIW the method outlined in Hinault's
    and Genzling's book comes very close to what I ended up with.

    Some people will end up looking like Maurizio Fondriest and others
    will end up with positions like Sean Kelly's. What's right is what
    works for you, on your bike, with your body.
     
  18. Tom Paterson

    Tom Paterson Guest

    From Tim McNamara:

    >Every cycling book offers a different >method. There is the CONI method, the

    Guimard/Lemond/Hinault method, the
    >heel-on-pedal method, the 105% of inseam method, the Eddy B (1) and
    >Eddy B (2) methods, etc.


    Not to mention the Eddy Merckx method.

    >My own opinion is that fit is a dynamic >issue (snip)


    Mr. Merckx can be seen on film demonstrating his (same) opinion. --TP
     
  19. [email protected] wrote:
    > I was fortunate to have an expert adjust my bicycle merely
    > from riding around the parking lot slowly and it has suited me well.


    Was this a one-time event?
    Do you always ride in the same clothes and with the same footwear?
    John Thurston
    Juneau, Alaska
     
  20. Sandy

    Sandy Guest

    <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
    news:[email protected]
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >> I was fortunate to have an expert adjust my bicycle merely
    >> from riding around the parking lot slowly and it has suited me well.

    >
    > Was this a one-time event?
    > Do you always ride in the same clothes and with the same footwear?
    > John Thurston
    > Juneau, Alaska


    Those are fact questions ! Don't be so rude as to ask him to answer.
    Instead, better to go the that parking lot and watch his ass wiggle.
    Emulate. Done.
    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy
    Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
     
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