seat post height question-how high?

[ritcho]

Ritch O? writes:
[snip]



> An recent article on cyclingnews.com might help:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=2004/letters12-20

What in this article did you find interesting enough to recommend that
we read the thread? To me it seems to beat around the bush and dodge
the real issues.

Jobst Brandt
[email protected]

A real issue for most people is getting their seat height adjusted properly. One way is to have a professional person fit them, another is to DIY. The cited article provided a concise method outlining how someone could go about setting their own seat height, written by an author that specialises in fitting people to bikes.

Regards,
Ritch

 

[Tim McNamara]

[email protected]ospam (Tom Paterson) writes:

> From Tim McNamara:
>
>>Every cycling book offers a different >method. There is the CONI
>>method, the
> Guimard/Lemond/Hinault method, the
>>heel-on-pedal method, the 105% of inseam method, the Eddy B (1) and
>>Eddy B (2) methods, etc.
>
> Not to mention the Eddy Merckx method.
>
>>My own opinion is that fit is a dynamic issue (snip)
>
> Mr. Merckx can be seen on film demonstrating his (same)
> opinion. --TP

Yes, he'd have been faster without carrying an entire toolbox full of
wrenches in his pockets (I remember seeing film of him descending,
standing on the pedals and ajdusting his saddle height. Might be in
_Stars and Water Carriers_). ;-)

 

[Philip Holman]

"anerobic" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> my impression is that the higher you can put your seatpost, the more
> efficient your pedal stroke will be, since you get better extension.

Higher isn't necessarily better.

> obviously at some point you can get into hyper-extension pain at the
> back of your knee if it's too high. is that the correct thinking, or
> is there some other height that works better? i raise mine up little
> by little until it starts to hurt behind my knees after a ride, then
> lower it a few mm. i see people riding who effectively have much
> lower
> seat heights but since they're riding with me i don't make any
> suggestions....all thoughts and experiences appreciated. thanks

87% of your floor to crotch height with no shoes = distance from center
of bottom bracket to top of seat along centerline of seat tube. This is
a starting point. Adjust up or down to your own personal preference.
All of my bicycles are set at 31.5 inches and I never mess with it.

Phil H

 

[[email protected]]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> [email protected]ospam (Tom Paterson) writes:
>
> > From Tim McNamara:
> >
> >>Every cycling book offers a different >method. There is the CONI
> >>method, the
> > Guimard/Lemond/Hinault method, the
> >>heel-on-pedal method, the 105% of inseam method, the Eddy B (1) and
> >>Eddy B (2) methods, etc.
> >
> > Not to mention the Eddy Merckx method.
> >
> >>My own opinion is that fit is a dynamic issue (snip)
> >
> > Mr. Merckx can be seen on film demonstrating his (same)
> > opinion. --TP
>
> Yes, he'd have been faster without carrying an entire toolbox full of
> wrenches in his pockets (I remember seeing film of him descending,
> standing on the pedals and ajdusting his saddle height. Might be in
> _Stars and Water Carriers_). ;-)

Dear Tim,

Merckx adjusting on-the-fly might be in that film. Here's a comment on
similar Merckx adjustments in "Sunday in Hell":

"Campy seatposts: These seatposts were designed with the binder bolt on
top under the seat. This design made it impossible to properly adjust
your saddle. You were lucky to find a wrench small enough to tighten
the damn thing down. If you like your saddle pushed far back, as most
people did, forget it. There's a 20 minute segment in "A Sunday in
Hell" of Eddy Merckx f@#king with this problem during the race.
Strangely, many Italian manufacturers still produce a version of this
ridiculous design."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/team/teams/5280/2004/?id=diaries/lionel_giro

Merckx was famous for seat-fussing even before his back injury.

In case anyone wants some quick round-ups of bike films for the
holidays, here are two sites:

http://www.bikehighway.com/moviereviews.htm
http://www.massbike.org/info1/movies.htm

Carl Fogel

 

[[email protected]]

John Thurston writes:

>> I was fortunate to have an expert adjust my bicycle merely from
>> riding around the parking lot slowly and it has suited me well.

> Was this a one-time event? Do you always ride in the same clothes
> and with the same footwear?

How many times do you think this is needed. I had a fairly good
position when I started riding a good bicycle and put in many miles
before Cino Cinelli asked me to ride around in the yard in front of his
frame factory in Milano. I got a longer stem and adjusted the saddle
height a bit and that was the end of it.

I don't care about affects of clothing on position because all my
clothes are within a couple of millimeters thickness of each other, an
amount less than any adjustment that makes any sense. As for
footwear, if I'm not riding bicycling shoes then it doesn't matter,
I'm not going far. As I mentioned, I use SH TO-92 shoes to ride to
work an wear them all day in the office.

Jobst Brandt
[email protected]

 

[(Pete Cresswell)]

RE/
>I got a longer stem and adjusted the saddle
>height a bit and that was the end of it.

Which begs a question that's always nagged at me: now to mark the post so I can
return it to that magic height after, say, riding down a long rocky descent with
it lowered a few inches?

I told somebody that I was scoring it with a packing knife and they replied that
that was weakening the post significantly.

Tried a little spray paint, but it comes right off after a few adjustments.

Seems like the makers should etch a few reference marks on their posts - and, in
fact, I've got a post from RaceFace where that is the case. But what about
unmarked posts?
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Tom Sherman]

Jobst Brandt wrote:

> ...
> Often, too low a position comes from fear of falling or not being able
> to reach the road with the feet....

I prefer to have my seat low enough that I can reach the ground with my
hand. Falling over hurts much less.

--
Tom Sherman

 

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:46:37 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>RE/
>>I got a longer stem and adjusted the saddle
>>height a bit and that was the end of it.
>
>Which begs a question that's always nagged at me: now to mark the post so I can
>return it to that magic height after, say, riding down a long rocky descent with
>it lowered a few inches?
>
>I told somebody that I was scoring it with a packing knife and they replied that
>that was weakening the post significantly.
>
>Tried a little spray paint, but it comes right off after a few adjustments.
>
>Seems like the makers should etch a few reference marks on their posts - and, in
>fact, I've got a post from RaceFace where that is the case. But what about
>unmarked posts?

Dear Pete,

Tape a zip-tie high up on the back of your seat post,
leaving its lower end free.

Trim the lower end of the zip tie to show the right length,
where the seat-post goes into the frame.

When you lower your seat, the free end of the zip tie curls
out behind you.

When you raise your seat, you simply stop when the zip tie
indicates perfection has been achieved again.

Bright yellow tape and a neon-pink zip tie will show riders
behind how proud you are of your cunning.

Carl Fogel

 

[Tim McNamara]

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> writes:

> RE/
>>I got a longer stem and adjusted the saddle height a bit and that
>>was the end of it.
>
> Which begs a question that's always nagged at me: now to mark the
> post so I can return it to that magic height after, say, riding down
> a long rocky descent with it lowered a few inches?

I never adjust the saddle while riding (heck, I sometimes don't take
out the seat post for any purpose for years at a time), but I do mark
the post with a small punch, making a mark on the post just at the
edge of the seat lug. A punch, a light tap with a hammer, and
voila! A guide mark.

 

[Mike Krueger]

<< Which begs a question that's always nagged at me: now to mark the
post so I can return it to that magic height after, say, riding down
a long rocky descent with it lowered a few inches? >>

I use a Sharpie pen to scribe a line-metallic silver ink on black components,
or standard black ink on silver parts. Unless wiped off with a solvent such as
alchohol or acetone, it holds up pretty well.

 

[Peter Cole]

"ritcho" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> A real issue for most people is getting their seat height adjusted
> properly. One way is to have a professional person fit them, another is
> to DIY. The cited article provided a concise method outlining how
> someone could go about setting their own seat height, written by an
> author that specialises in fitting people to bikes.

This article wasn't very useful. First he says:

"I have an advantage in setting other peoples' seat height because I can
see them. We can't see ourselves and what I have suggested in this forum is
how I go about setting my own seat height as I can't see myself either."

Implying (as Jobst points out) that the best way is having someone watch
you pedal. Apparently this guy doesn't know anybody other than himself with
this skill...

He then counsels you to raise your seat 3mm at a time (yeah, right) until
you are "obviously an increment too high". According to him: "Obviously
too high means that you will start to move laterally on the seat a bit or
feel jerky at the bottom of the stroke." At which point you're supposed to
lower 5mm.

It seems that it's just a roundabout way of saying raise the seat until
your hips rock, and that the best way of finding that point is to have
somebody else watch. The implication is that adjustment should (or can) be
perfected to 2mm.

 

[Tom Paterson]

From "Peter Cole"

> The implication is that adjustment should >(or can) be perfected to 2mm.

There once was a rider named Merckx
Famed for giving his saddles a twerkx.
Said he from a clench,
As he reached for his wrench:
"I moved it, but now it is werckx!".

Don't worry, be happy. Holidays!
--TP

 

[(Pete Cresswell)]

RE/
>Tape a zip-tie high up on the back of your seat post,
>leaving its lower end free.
>
>Trim the lower end of the zip tie to show the right length,
>where the seat-post goes into the frame.

The genius of simplicity.

Thanks.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 17:56:10 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>RE/
>>Tape a zip-tie high up on the back of your seat post,
>>leaving its lower end free.
>>
>>Trim the lower end of the zip tie to show the right length,
>>where the seat-post goes into the frame.
>
>The genius of simplicity.
>
>Thanks.

Dear Pete,

Aaargh!

Mike Krueger's Sharpie-pen-marking suggestion elsewhere in
this thread makes my tape-and-zip-tie scheme look like
something that Rube Goldberg would call over-complicated.

Carl Fogel

 

[[email protected]]

On 24 Dec 2004 16:41:57 GMT, [email protected]ospam (Tom
Paterson) wrote:

>From "Peter Cole"
>
>> The implication is that adjustment should >(or can) be perfected to 2mm.
>
>There once was a rider named Merckx
>Famed for giving his saddles a twerkx.
>Said he from a clench,
>As he reached for his wrench:
>"I moved it, but now it is werckx!".
>
>Don't worry, be happy. Holidays!
>--TP
>

Dear Tim,

Others abide our question. Thou art free.

M. Arnold

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:46:37 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Seems like the makers should etch a few reference marks on their posts - and, in
>fact, I've got a post from RaceFace where that is the case. But what about
>unmarked posts?

Use a punch and punch a dot. I've used a concrete nail. I usually
have a piece of black tape on the post.

 

[(Pete Cresswell)]

RE/
>Aaargh!
>
>Mike Krueger's Sharpie-pen-marking suggestion elsewhere in
>this thread makes my tape-and-zip-tie scheme look like
>something that Rube Goldberg would call over-complicated.

Maybe....
--
PeteCresswell

 

[ItsikH]

my impression is that the higher you can put your seatpost, the more efficient your pedal stroke will be, since you get better extension. obviously at some point you can get into hyper-extension pain at the back of your knee if it's too high. is that the correct thinking, or is there some other height that works better? i raise mine up little by little until it starts to hurt behind my knees after a ride, then lower it a few mm. i see people riding who effectively have much lower seat heights but since they're riding with me i don't make any suggestions....all thoughts and experiences appreciated. thanks

Warning from my experience: 20 years ago I tried the same, as I have learned that "the higher the better". It was just a little too high. I climbed mt. Carmel at the end of a 100kms jorney. As I got up there, I went off the bike and... fell to the ground. My kneews were totally disfunctional. Pain came a few minutes later. It was the back side of the knee.
My knees heeled in just a few days of rest, but the lesson is simple: Make sure the seat is not too high. A bit low is preferred over a bit high. If you feel the back of your knees lower your seat immediately.
BTW, a seat way too low might also cause knee problems because the joint tends to bend outwards (away from the bicycle).

 

[Baird Webel]

In article <[email protected]>,
ItsikH <[email protected]> wrote:


> My knees heeled in just a few days of rest, but the lesson is simple:
> Make sure the seat is not too high. A bit low is preferred over a bit
> high.

are you basing this on anything other than your experience? Mine was
the opposite with knee problems coming from the seat being too low.

Baird

 

[ItsikH]

In article <[email protected]>,
ItsikH <[email protected]> wrote:


> My knees heeled in just a few days of rest, but the lesson is simple:
> Make sure the seat is not too high. A bit low is preferred over a bit
> high.

are you basing this on anything other than your experience? Mine was
the opposite with knee problems coming from the seat being too low.

Baird

Experience only. Both are harmful of course, there is a range which is OK. Inexperienced, beginning cyclers are more likely to sit too low. As enthusiastic cyclers tend to go as high as possible, they are more likely to go too high than too low. When too high, you might not feel any pain before harm is done, that's what my experience tells me.