Seat recline angle and abdominals



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PreciousBbird

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Apr 12, 2003
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I adjusted my HepCat today so that the seat leans back more. My question is - will this cause more abdominal involvement so I can stop doing my sit ups? Just kidding - but I am curious.

Also, I am quite a new bent rider. I still find myself leaning forward slightly when I am going fast and think I want to go faster. I think I should do just the opposite to maximize my aerodynamic advantage. Like tip the seat back even more.

Comments appreciated. Thanks!
 
On 24 Jul 2003 09:25:19 +0950, PreciousBbird <[email protected]> wrote:

>Also, I am quite a new bent rider. I still find myself leaning forward slightly when I am going
>fast and think I want to go faster. I think I should do just the opposite to maximize my
>aerodynamic advantage. Like tip the seat back even more.
I found myself doing the same thing back when I rode a P-38, and I was doing it again today on the
EZ-1. I think it relates to years of pulling on the handlebars when riding a DF for more power.
Riding a bent is a lower-body exercise--plant yourself in that seat!

Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget:
http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call
http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
 
"PreciousBbird" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I adjusted my HepCat today so that the seat leans back more. My question is - will this cause more
> abdominal involvement so I can stop doing my sit ups? Just kidding - but I am curious.

I have an Optima Baron low rider which is far more laid back, It seems to work the abdomenj a bit
better although its far more laid back than your HepCat

> Also, I am quite a new bent rider. I still find myself leaning forward slightly when I am going
> fast and think I want to go faster. I think I should do just the opposite to maximize my
> aerodynamic advantage. Like tip the seat back even more.

If its more comfortable leaning forward then I suggest doing it, the aerodynamics aren't going to be
much if any different
 
On 24 Jul 2003 09:25:19 +0950, PreciousBbird <[email protected]> wrote:

>I adjusted my HepCat today so that the seat leans back more. My question is - will this cause more
>abdominal involvement so I can stop doing my sit ups? Just kidding - but I am curious.

I'm afraid not. You need a Thys Rowingbike if you want to excercise your abs while riding.

>Also, I am quite a new bent rider. I still find myself leaning forward slightly when I am going
>fast and think I want to go faster. I think I should do just the opposite to maximize my
>aerodynamic advantage. Like tip the seat back even more.

Are you talking about the seat setting, or pulling on the handlebar while pedaling? A more reclined
seat makes you more aerodynamic, but it also reduces your power output.

Many people say you shouldn't pull on the handlebar, but I think it does help to pull during hard
pedaling. My reasoning is that by pulling on the handlebar, I'm preventing power loss through frame
flex and seat flex (including compression of the seat pad).

Ken Kobayashi [email protected] http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/
 
Ken Kobayashi wrote:

> Many people say you shouldn't pull on the handlebar, but I think it does help to pull during hard
> pedaling. My reasoning is that by pulling on the handlebar, I'm preventing power loss through
> frame flex and seat flex (including compression of the seat pad).

Beware, Ken, lest it come off in yer 'and. I believe that An Idiot once took a Speed Ross out for a
test ride:

Peter Ross: Do /not/ pull on the handlebars, for they are not designed for it, and may break. Idiot:
Yer, yer, I know all dat

A Several of time units later, Idiot returns, on foot, with the sorry remnants of the Speed Ross
in his arms.

Peter: What happened? Idiot: Well, I was pulling on the handlebars, and... Peter: (says nothing, but
turns the Idiot upside-down and shakes him vigourously, until such time as sufficient funds to
replace the borken parts have fallen from his pocketses, then drops him upon his Idiotic head)

Well, maybe the last bit didn't /quite/ go down like that, but you get the picture.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================
 
Annoying thing about a reclined seat is that you can't burp. Have to sit more upright for that.

M
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On 24 Jul 2003 09:25:19 +0950, PreciousBbird <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Also, I am quite a new bent rider. I still find myself leaning forward slightly when I am going
> >fast and think I want to go faster. I think I should do just the opposite to maximize my
> >aerodynamic advantage. Like tip the seat back even more.
> I found myself doing the same thing back when I rode a P-38, and I was doing it again today on
> the EZ-1. I think it relates to years of pulling on the handlebars when riding a DF for more
> power. Riding a bent is a lower-body exercise--plant yourself in that seat!

Maybe not. Just before I traded the RANS Stratus for the Bacchetta Giro, I started to experiment
with seat angle. I found that if I pulled myself closer to the H/B on the Stratus to approximate the
closed seating position of the P-38, I was able to apply more power to the pedals and increase
speed. Many (aerobellys) complain about the closed seating position of the P-38, but I think this is
a reason the P-38 was setting records. The Big wheel go fast bikes currently in favor offer a
reclined body position over the P-38, but relative to the higher cranks, the seating position is
still more closed than a similarly reclined 26X20 Hepcat.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -
 
"Cletus Lee" skrev

> > Annoying thing about a reclined seat is that you can't burp. Have to sit more upright for that.
>
> Yes, but it is much easier to fart.

That is counterproductive though. My theory is that recumbents are slower up hills because of this.
Climbing a hill takes so much effort that you frequently pass gas. On a DF this is expelled
backwards and helps propel it. But on a lowracer it will actually slow you down. Therefore
recumbents climb slower.

Mikael
 
Mikaek! That is a unique theory, maybe you should pass that information on to NASA. It mite work in
interplanetary travel.

"Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Cletus Lee" skrev
>
> > > Annoying thing about a reclined seat is that you can't burp. Have to sit more upright for
> > > that.
> >
> > Yes, but it is much easier to fart.
>
> That is counterproductive though. My theory is that recumbents are slower up hills because of
> this. Climbing a hill takes so much effort that you frequently pass gas. On a DF this is expelled
> backwards and helps propel it. But on a lowracer it will actually slow you down. Therefore
> recumbents climb slower.
>
> Mikael
 
Originally posted by Mikael Seierup
"Cletus Lee" skrev

> > Annoying thing about a reclined seat is that you can't burp. Have to sit more upright for that.
>
> Yes, but it is much easier to fart.

That is counterproductive though. My theory is that recumbents are slower up hills because of this.
Climbing a hill takes so much effort that you frequently pass gas. On a DF this is expelled
backwards and helps propel it. But on a lowracer it will actually slow you down. Therefore
recumbents climb slower.

Mikael
Also, on a DF the odor is behind the expeller and isn't perceived (except by the paceline). On the bent, the odor blooms in front of the expeller and the resultant gagging can interrupt the pedal cadence.
 
Ken Kobayashi <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 24 Jul 2003 09:25:19 +0950, PreciousBbird <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I adjusted my HepCat today so that the seat leans back more. My question is - will this cause more
>>abdominal involvement so I can stop doing my sit ups? Just kidding - but I am curious.
>
> I'm afraid not. You need a Thys Rowingbike if you want to excercise your abs while riding.

Not TOTALLY false. When I started on bents my stomach muscles were quite sore. I imagine from
holding my legs up on the pedals (high BB)
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> Also, on a DF the odor is behind the expeller and isn't perceived (except by the paceline). On the
> bent, the odor blooms in front of the expeller and the resultant gagging can interrupt the pedal
> cadence.

Not if you travel at my speeds ;-)

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -
 
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:30:46 -0500, MLB <[email protected]> wrote:

>Ken Kobayashi <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> I'm afraid not. You need a Thys Rowingbike if you want to excercise your abs while riding.
>
>Not TOTALLY false. When I started on bents my stomach muscles were quite sore. I imagine from
>holding my legs up on the pedals (high BB)

Hmm, I never experienced that myself. Is that with clipless pedals? My first high-BB bike had
clipless pedals right from the start, which might explain the difference.

My belly got extremely sore when I started riding the Rowingbike, which is why I concluded that (1)
My abs had been quite out of shape despite riding a high-BB bike (Stealth) evey day, and (2) the
Rowingbike does provide good abdomenal workout.

Ken Kobayashi [email protected] http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/
 
> That is counterproductive though. My theory is that recumbents are slower up hills because of
> this. Climbing a hill takes so much effort that you frequently pass gas. On a DF this is expelled
> backwards and helps propel it. But on a lowracer it will actually slow you down. Therefore
> recumbents climb slower. Mikael

OK, kidlets, lets think this through together! Farts contain a good bit of methane, at least mine.
Not the Silent Killers, which are a different matter, and are best left for crowded elevator
situations. On lots of sorry engines, which is kinda my topic anyway, you can drip gasoline, open a
propane bottle, or any kind of combustible gas near the carb and the engine will accelerate a bit.
OK, are we still together? Now, I can't say about going up hills, never having been able to
experience this, but on the flat my farts tend to envelope me in a pleasant haze** that enervates my
constitution (engine), producing a perceptible forward acceleration due the combustibleness of their
nature.. and a side effect of killing all mosquitos in the area. This really isn't as bad for others
as you may think since I am accustomed to having cyclists in front of me, not behind me anyway. And
at the speed I progress the faint swirl of disturbed air of my passing cannot readily penetrate my
'envelope'.

** Farts are like religion.. everybody's stinks but your own.
 
> Also, I am quite a new bent rider. I still find myself leaning forward slightly when I am going
> fast and think I want to go faster.

I used to do that but now am more relaxed. Apart from the screaming, I mean. I stay planted in the
seat when going fast.
 
"Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Cletus Lee" skrev
>
> > > Annoying thing about a reclined seat is that you can't burp. Have to sit more upright for
> > > that.
> >
> > Yes, but it is much easier to fart.
>
> That is counterproductive though. My theory is that recumbents are slower up hills because of
> this. Climbing a hill takes so much effort that you frequently pass gas. On a DF this is expelled
> backwards and helps propel it. But on a lowracer it will actually slow you down. Therefore
> recumbents climb slower.
>
> Mikael

But since you are now farting down on a recumbent wouldn't that make the bike weight lighter :)
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Cletus Lee" skrev
> >
> > > > Annoying thing about a reclined seat is that you can't burp. Have to sit more upright for
> > > > that.
> > >
> > > Yes, but it is much easier to fart.
> >
> > That is counterproductive though. My theory is that recumbents are slower up hills because of
> > this. Climbing a hill takes so much
effort
> > that you frequently pass gas. On a DF this is expelled backwards and helps propel it. But on a
> > lowracer it will actually slow you down. Therefore recumbents climb slower.
> >
> > Mikael
>
> But since you are now farting down on a recumbent wouldn't that make the bike weight lighter :)
>
Ah! NOW I understand the idea of Open Cell Foam. Maybe It could be made one-way open, so the light
gasses would stay in the foam, and the heavy leave from the bottom (!) immediately?

US pat. no. 23.54.877.69-23 B
 
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<r1KTa.131814$ye4.94612@sccrnsc01>...
> "PreciousBbird" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[...]
> If its more comfortable leaning forward then I suggest doing it, the aerodynamics aren't going to
> be much if any different

I agree. Without thinking about it, you may be doing it because you get more power with a more
closed hip angle. Or it may be keeping you from sliding up in the seat, helping you stay more solid
on the bike.

As a new rider, I think it is more important to try things and see what works than to depend too
much on pre-conceived notions.

John Riley
 
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