Second choice wanted ..Continental Top Touring 2000 .

[Human powered]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> maxo wrote:
>
>> I'll never buy a set of Contis again. Wildly overpriced and overrated.
>> Their cheaper tires are horrendous, perhaps a ploy to make you buy some
>> TTs.
>
> I will never buy or use a Continental tire ever again.
>
> I recommend Specialized "All Condition" as a good cheap
> tire with a nice round profile that seems to withstand the kind
> of everyday abuse that shreds Continental sidewalls. Around
> 20$. These run large so I'd say a 28 would be plenty. My
> 25's look more like fat 26.
>
> Robert
>
>

I think TT 2000s rock (I've no experience whatsoever with any of their other
tires though). They never get flats and they last forever, and the 32s can
go just about anywhere offroad.

Specialized armadillios work ok in those respects for me but they feel dead.

 

[Dave Larrington]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

> I believe the fully armored Armadillos are probably better at
> preventing thorn flats - my wife's commuter MTB has a pair of them,
> and she has put on quite a few miles between flats.
>
> But I've run them on an MTB in urban mode, and on my tandem, and can't
> really stand the way they feel / ride.

Likewise. I swopped them out for Vredestein SLicks. No difference in the
incidence of visits from the P+nct+r+ Fairy, and /much/ nicer to ride.

My fixer and the rear wheel of the #1 recumbent both have Panaracer Paselas,
which seem to be pretty p+nct+r+e resistant.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
I'm just a primitive creature of the heath, so pardon my savage
ignorance.

 

[Jan Lindstrom]

[email protected] wrote:
> Mostly glass, I'd imagine; we have no
> thorns here AFAIK.
>
> Perhaps if our state had a bottle deposit law, things would be
> different.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

I doubt it. We (in Finland) have broken bottles littering the streets
even with a deposit law. OTOH French and Italian cities seem to have
less broken glass on the streets. I think it's a cultural thing, some
people act responsibly, some not.

Jan Lindström

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:56:39 -0800, Ben Pfaff wrote:

> [email protected] writes:
>
>> Frank Krygowski writes:
>>> Perhaps if our state had a bottle deposit law, things would be
>>> different.
>>
>> Don't bet on it. We have a deposit law and it makes no difference
>> because these bottles among civilized people have always gone into the
>> recycle bin for the last many years. I know of no one who redeems
>> bottles.
>
> No one in California redeems bottles because it is inconvenient to do
> so. There is a limited number of places in each county to redeem them
> and they are not anywhere you go on a regular basis anyhow.
>
> In Michigan, grocery stores also redeem bottles for their deposits, so
> it is easy to get your deposits back and everyone does so, often at the
> same time they shop for groceries. (The deposits are also more valuable
> in Michigan.)

None of this helps the problem of broken glass, which comes from beer
bottles being thrown from moving cars. Do you really think people who
drink and drive care about bottle deposits?

The broken glass around here is mostly in and around town, particularly
after big VA Tech games. It's the college kids and football fans that are
the pigs (drunken ones).

Matt O.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:25:45 -0500,
<[email protected]>, Matt O'Toole
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> What sort of punctures were these and did you find the offending
>> intruder into the inner tube? I can't imagine in what sort of
>> surfaces you are riding, considering that I ride my tires until the
>> cords are showing with no change in puncture incidence. That leaves a
>> thin casing, the type of tread being irrelevant by that time. In that
>> condition the tires do well on even the roughest rocky roads and
>> trails, as well as city streets.
>
>This hasn't been my experience. I get very few flats
>until my tires are very worn, and then I get them in droves. This is how
>I know it's time to replace my tires. At this point they're usually paper
>thin, but still without cords showing.

After about three rear flats, in quick succession, I feel it's time to
replace my Ritchey Tom Slicks. The rubber appears to still has many
miles left on it but flats suck. They're usually caused by a small
piece of glass that looks like sand by the time it's worn through the
tire to abrade the tube.

This pair has recently had its third puncture on the rear but I put in
Mr.Tuffy strips in hopes of stretching their useful life.

I've not worn a pair of tires to their cords since I stopped riding
tubulars.
--
zk

 

[Zoot Katz]

Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:56:39 -0800, <[email protected]>,
Ben Pfaff <[email protected]> wrote:

>In Michigan, grocery stores also redeem bottles for their
>deposits, so it is easy to get your deposits back and everyone
>does so, often at the same time they shop for groceries. (The
>deposits are also more valuable in Michigan.)

In British Columbia, glass or plastic bottles and aluminium cans less
than one litre are worth 10 cents each. Big bottles are a quarter. All
stores that distribute them are obliged to collect and refund the
deposit though they may limit the number they take per day per
customer. There's a whole sub-economy based on recycling containers
that others have discarded. Even Tetra-Pac containers are recycled.
--
zk

 

[[email protected]]

Mark Hickey wrote:
> "Colorado Bicycler" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I use the newer model Specialized Armadillos (700x25), which definitely
> >are not cheap.
> >
> >Although they seem to reduce the flats from goatheads (Note for Jobst:
> >we find them windblown onto the cement trails - I never take my roadie
> >out in the brush), they are not perfect (and yes, I check my tires
> >visually periodically), I still get an occasional flat. They also seem
> >to be slow, although the newer model is much better than the previous.
> >
> >I would be interested in Mark's (or anyone else's) thoughts regarding
> >SA's in comparison with the other "tough" tires.
>
> I believe the fully armored Armadillos are probably better at
> preventing thorn flats - my wife's commuter MTB has a pair of them,
> and she has put on quite a few miles between flats.
>
> But I've run them on an MTB in urban mode, and on my tandem, and can't
> really stand the way they feel / ride.
>
> With "normal" tires on my road bike, I'd average a flat from a thorn
> every 50-100 miles. After switching to the Panaracer T-Servs, the
> interval is 1000-2000 miles between flats (one every couple months,
> give or take). The fact the T-Servs feel like "good tires" makes it a
> good trade, IMHO.

After all the flack I got about not being careful enough about checking
pressure, relying on other people to fix my flats, and so on in my
"trashed tire" thread I'm finding it interesting to see the kind of
mileage other people get between flats.

I guess I went about 900 miles on my last bike before it simultaneously
acquired its first and second flats. (The second flat was a slow leak
on the front tire that was discovered shortly after the shop finished
patching the rear tire.) Current bike got the first flat before the
first 100 miles were finished and a second flat just after the first
1000 miles.

The bike before that went maybe 500 miles with no flats.

On the other hand I don't seem to be getting broken glass or thorns or
sharp object flats, always kerthump kerthumpty hissss flats from poor
road quality. There are bottle deposits on glass, people who make a
living collecting other people's garbage, and lots of old ladies with
brooms sweeping the street though.

-M

 

[Joe Canuck]

Zoot Katz wrote:

> Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:25:45 -0500,
> <[email protected]>, Matt O'Toole
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>>What sort of punctures were these and did you find the offending
>>>intruder into the inner tube? I can't imagine in what sort of
>>>surfaces you are riding, considering that I ride my tires until the
>>>cords are showing with no change in puncture incidence. That leaves a
>>>thin casing, the type of tread being irrelevant by that time. In that
>>>condition the tires do well on even the roughest rocky roads and
>>>trails, as well as city streets.
>>
>>This hasn't been my experience. I get very few flats
>>until my tires are very worn, and then I get them in droves. This is how
>>I know it's time to replace my tires. At this point they're usually paper
>>thin, but still without cords showing.
>
>
> After about three rear flats, in quick succession, I feel it's time to
> replace my Ritchey Tom Slicks. The rubber appears to still has many
> miles left on it but flats suck. They're usually caused by a small
> piece of glass that looks like sand by the time it's worn through the
> tire to abrade the tube.
>

This can be averted by inspecting your tires after each ride and
removing the debris.

> This pair has recently had its third puncture on the rear but I put in
> Mr.Tuffy strips in hopes of stretching their useful life.
>
> I've not worn a pair of tires to their cords since I stopped riding
> tubulars.

 

[Thomas Wentworth]

This is a reply to myself :::::::::::::: am I gone or what?

====

What about buying a Nasbar brand or a Permorance brand tire and lining the
tire with the puncture lining stuff.

I forget what it is called .... wait ,, let me look ..

"slime tire liner".

Is this stuff any good????????????????

===


"Thomas Wentworth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7NGgf.1630$RI5.774@trndny09...
>I am planning on buying a couple of tires for next season's touring. The
>Cont. TT 2000 seem like too much money. What other tires might you
>recommend. 700x32 .. size please ????
>
> thanks,,,
>
>
>

 

[Jeff Starr]

On 25 Nov 2005 01:28:36 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>

>After all the flack I got about not being careful enough about checking
>pressure, relying on other people to fix my flats, and so on in my
>"trashed tire" thread I'm finding it interesting to see the kind of
>mileage other people get between flats.
>
>I guess I went about 900 miles on my last bike before it simultaneously
>acquired its first and second flats. (The second flat was a slow leak
>on the front tire that was discovered shortly after the shop finished
>patching the rear tire.) Current bike got the first flat before the
>first 100 miles were finished and a second flat just after the first
>1000 miles.
>
>The bike before that went maybe 500 miles with no flats.
>
>On the other hand I don't seem to be getting broken glass or thorns or
>sharp object flats, always kerthump kerthumpty hissss flats from poor
>road quality. There are bottle deposits on glass, people who make a
>living collecting other people's garbage, and lots of old ladies with
>brooms sweeping the street though.
>
>-M

You call it flack, I call it trying to help out and educate a fellow
rider.

On my current Continental Ultra Gatorskins, I have a little over 5000
miles, with no flats that required roadside repair. Somewhere past
4000 miles, I had a couple of slow leaks show up. At least one was an
error on my part. I missed the hole when I patched a tube. Seeing as
it was a pinhole, I didn't notice it right away.

The flats that you are getting could be lessened or prevented with
proper inflation, vigilance, and of course a little luck never hurts.
A better tire would help too, one more suited to your road conditions.


Life is Good!
Jeff

 

[Mark Hickey]

[email protected] wrote:

>Mark Hickey writes:

>> With "normal" tires on my road bike, I'd average a flat from a thorn
>> every 50-100 miles. After switching to the Panaracer T-Servs, the
>> interval is 1000-2000 miles between flats (one every couple months,
>> give or take). The fact the T-Servs feel like "good tires" makes it
>> a good trade, IMHO.
>
>Without further evidence I'm not convinced that the choice of tires
>made the difference. Have you inspected the surface of these tires
>and found them to contain thorns that did not cause flats? Thorns do
>not come out by themselves but they are not deterred from entering a
>tire by the tread compound. They get polished off flush to the tread
>surface almost immediately and any extracting motions, if there were
>any, are blocked by the next rotation against the road.
>
>This sounds so much like the positive effects of wiping tires after
>riding through glass.

I ride enough miles that it's impossible for me to believe it was just
a coincidence that my flat frequency dropped by much more than an
order of magnitude when I changed tires.

The thing I notice is that the thorn-related flats I do get with the
T-Servs are almost all 'direct hits" in the center of the tire,
straight in. In this case, the tire's protective layers aren't able
to withstand the bike essentially trying to pole vault over the tip of
the thorn repeatedly.

On the "normal tires" many of the flats were from thorns entering the
tire from much more to the side (some sticking out to the point that
the entire thorn "ball" was still attached). This doesn't seem to
happen with the T-Servs.

From this anecdotal sampling, I'd suspect that the kevlar liner is
capable of withstaning penetration while the slightly off-axis
pressure on the thorn "ball" tries to simultaneously drive the thorn
through the tire, and "sqirm it out" of the tire. On a "normal tire"
the thorn penetrates more before the rest of the thorn is twisted out.

All I need is $50,000 and a high-speed camera to make sure...

Mark "oh, and a month or two of free time" Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

 

[[email protected]]

Mark Hickey writes:

>>> With "normal" tires on my road bike, I'd average a flat from a
>>> thorn every 50-100 miles. After switching to the Panaracer
>>> T-Servs, the interval is 1000-2000 miles between flats (one every
>>> couple months, give or take). The fact the T-Servs feel like
>>> "good tires" makes it a good trade, IMHO.

>> Without further evidence I'm not convinced that the choice of tires
>> made the difference. Have you inspected the surface of these tires
>> and found them to contain thorns that did not cause flats? Thorns
>> do not come out by themselves but they are not deterred from
>> entering a tire by the tread compound. They get polished off flush
>> to the tread surface almost immediately and any extracting motions,
>> if there were any, are blocked by the next rotation against the
>> road.

>> This sounds so much like the positive effects of wiping tires after
>> riding through glass.

> I ride enough miles that it's impossible for me to believe it was
> just a coincidence that my flat frequency dropped by much more than
> an order of magnitude when I changed tires.

Are you comparing the same season of the year and on the same routes?
I suspect so but it doesn't hurt to ask... I hope.

> The thing I notice is that the thorn-related flats I get with the
> T-Servs are almost all "direct hits" in the center of the tire,
> straight in. In this case, the tire's protective layers aren't able
> to withstand the bike essentially trying to pole vault over the tip
> of the thorn repeatedly.

Well, unless the sidewalls a substantially thicker, I don't see how
they would affect penetration. If the thorn is pressed against the
tire with enough force to start penetration then I don't see what
would make it stop unless you rode through the plant itself that has
available burrs above ground level... but these are not backed up by
anything that would make them enter the tire other than the light
contact that isn't a threat of a flat.

This is the test I suggest to people who are unaware of how odious
this plant is. Gently place the palm of the hand on the plant until
you can feel a pin *****. When you lift your hand, there will be
several thorns stuck in the surface callous of the hand. The same goes
for tires, if you ride through the plant.

> On the "normal tires" many of the flats were from thorns entering
> the tire from much more to the side (some sticking out to the point
> that the entire thorn "ball" was still attached). This doesn't seem
> to happen with the T-Servs.

I think that depends on inflation pressure. If the contact patch is
broader and flattened, thorns will appear as though they entered from
the side of the unloaded tire afterwards.

> From this anecdotal sampling, I'd suspect that the Kevlar liner is
> capable of withstanding penetration while the slightly off-axis
> pressure on the thorn "ball" tries to simultaneously drive the thorn
> through the tire, and "squirm it out" of the tire. On a "normal
> tire" the thorn penetrates more before the rest of the thorn is
> twisted out.

Kevlar is a filament of micro fibers between which such a thorn will
pass easily. I'll be you have enough of these tires available from
your trash bin to make a test. Gather some ripe (hard) thorns and
manually push them into comparable tires and see what you can feel.
With a bike shop, I expect such research because the results benefit
the customer.

> All I need is $50,000 and a high-speed camera to make sure...

> Mark "oh, and a month or two of free time" Hickey

Don't make is sound so difficult. Simple tests often give results the
highly instrumented research fails to identify.


Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Jeff Starr wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2005 01:28:36 -0800, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >After all the flack I got about not being careful enough about checking
> >pressure, relying on other people to fix my flats, and so on in my
> >"trashed tire" thread I'm finding it interesting to see the kind of
> >mileage other people get between flats.
> >
> >I guess I went about 900 miles on my last bike before it simultaneously
> >acquired its first and second flats. (The second flat was a slow leak
> >on the front tire that was discovered shortly after the shop finished
> >patching the rear tire.) Current bike got the first flat before the
> >first 100 miles were finished and a second flat just after the first
> >1000 miles.
> >
> >The bike before that went maybe 500 miles with no flats.
> >
> >On the other hand I don't seem to be getting broken glass or thorns or
> >sharp object flats, always kerthump kerthumpty hissss flats from poor
> >road quality. There are bottle deposits on glass, people who make a
> >living collecting other people's garbage, and lots of old ladies with
> >brooms sweeping the street though.
> >
> >-M
>
> You call it flack, I call it trying to help out and educate a fellow
> rider.

Depending on presentation useful information, no matter how good the
motives behind giving it, can come out sounding like nagging. So, yes,
I call it flack.

> On my current Continental Ultra Gatorskins, I have a little over 5000
> miles, with no flats that required roadside repair. Somewhere past
> 4000 miles, I had a couple of slow leaks show up. At least one was an
> error on my part. I missed the hole when I patched a tube. Seeing as
> it was a pinhole, I didn't notice it right away.
>
> The flats that you are getting could be lessened or prevented with
> proper inflation, vigilance, and of course a little luck never hurts.
> A better tire would help too, one more suited to your road conditions.

I'll agree with you on the better tire issue and actually took notes on
the tires recommended in this thread for my next set of round tuit
purchases.

-M

 

[Colorado Bicycler]

"I think that depends on inflation pressure. If the contact patch is
broader and flattened, thorns will appear as though they entered from
the side of the unloaded tire afterwards. "

I maintain a pressure of about 80 psi in my mtn bike slicks, and yes, I
have had goatheads penetrate from the side wall into the tube. So far
to the side that there is no way my weight of riding or not riding
makes any difference.

Next time I have one I will take a photo and post it. (A simple,
inexpensive "test"). And I don't ride my mtn bike with slicks off-road
any more. This is from goatheads that get blown onto our cement and
gravel trail system.

 

[Mark Hickey]

[email protected] wrote:

>Mark Hickey writes:

>> I ride enough miles that it's impossible for me to believe it was
>> just a coincidence that my flat frequency dropped by much more than
>> an order of magnitude when I changed tires.
>
>Are you comparing the same season of the year and on the same routes?
>I suspect so but it doesn't hurt to ask... I hope.

Yes, the same routes, year-round riding with the same riding miles in
each season.

>> From this anecdotal sampling, I'd suspect that the Kevlar liner is
>> capable of withstanding penetration while the slightly off-axis
>> pressure on the thorn "ball" tries to simultaneously drive the thorn
>> through the tire, and "squirm it out" of the tire. On a "normal
>> tire" the thorn penetrates more before the rest of the thorn is
>> twisted out.
>
>Kevlar is a filament of micro fibers between which such a thorn will
>pass easily. I'll be you have enough of these tires available from
>your trash bin to make a test. Gather some ripe (hard) thorns and
>manually push them into comparable tires and see what you can feel.
>With a bike shop, I expect such research because the results benefit
>the customer.

Murphy is alive and well - while I was typing the above, the air in my
rear tire was leaking out due to a thorn puncture.

I went over the tire carefully, and pulled four thorns out of the
tread. The one that had punctured the tube was in the center of the
tire, and was deeper than the others, which were broken off at the
surface of the tread before the thorn could puncture the tube.

I can only conjecture why this is the case, but it seems logical that
if the kevlar only slows down the penetration for a few more
revolutions of the tire, that it's possible the body (ball) of the
thorn will be broken off before the tube punctures.

But your suggestion is a good one - I'd like to compare the relative
ease of the thorns passing through various tires.

>> All I need is $50,000 and a high-speed camera to make sure...
>
>> Mark "oh, and a month or two of free time" Hickey
>
>Don't make is sound so difficult. Simple tests often give results the
>highly instrumented research fails to identify.

Careful or we'll restart the "ride quality of curved stays" thread!

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame