Second opinion wanted on a workout programme

"Tom Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi (again),

I started going to a local gym about six weeks ago. I hadn't been working
out for many months before that, and that hadn't been terribly serious
either, so i'm pretty much a beginner; i'm 26 and have a reasonable level
of general fitness (i cycle everywhere, take the stairs rather than the
lift, etc). Anyway, an instructor at the gym gave a programme to follow,
and changed it at a few times afterwards. I had my final followup meeting
yesterday, and now have the programme in its final form.

The trouble is, i'm not convinced it's a very good programme. I'd be
interested to hear what people think.

It starts with ten minutes running on a cross-trainer to warm up, then
there's weights, then there's fifteen minutes running on a treadmill, then
stretching. The ten minutes crosstraining is fine, although maybe more
than really needed to warm up, but the running seems a bit futile - if
it's to warm down, i only need five minutes, and if it's for cardio
training, i need to do at least 20-30. Fifteen isn't doing anything
useful, is it?

The weights are organised on a split routine, alternating upper and lower
body days (sort of - see below). I work out three days a week, so that's
four or five days between either session. I was surprised when he
suggested this; everything i've read says that whole-body workouts are
best for beginners, and i'd certainly consider myself still a beginner. I
do like the idea of giving my various aching bits longer to recover,
though!

The upper body day covers the chest, back and arms; the lower body day the
legs and shoulders. Yes, that's right, legs and shoulders. I don't
understand what he was thinking here.

Anyway, the exercises are:

Chest:
bosu (kind of a half ball thing) push-ups
lever chest presses
cable flys
Back:
lever assisted close-grip chin-ups
cable front pulldowns
lever seated rows
Arms:
dumbbell bicep curls
cable tricep pushdowns
Shoulders:
dumbbell upright rows
dumbbell lateral raises
Legs:
bosu squats (no weight)
lever seated leg press
single-leg lever seated leg press
dumbell lunges
lever hamstring curls

The exercises themselves are fine (the bosu things are for stability - the
idea is to develop all the minor stabilising muscles to support the big
lifts), but (a) there seem to be rather a lot of them, (b) there seems to
be a lot of duplication (pull-downs and chin-ups? chest presses and flys?
upright rows and lateral raises?), and (c) there seem to be some good ones
missing (dips, which i'd been doing in previous versions of the programme,
shoulder or military presses, squats and deadlifts, of course). The first
time i went through this programme, i added back the dips, and replaced
the lateral raises with shoulder presses.

Lastly, the programme specifies sets of ten reps (fine), but three to four
sets per exercise. That seems like overdoing it - doesn't the research say
more than two sets is a waste of time?

If i was writing my own programme from scratch, it'd probably be a
whole-body routine looking something like:

chest presses (or bench presses)
seated rows (or bent-over rows)
dips
pull-ups (probably wide rather than close grip)
shoulder presses
upright rows
deadlifts
straight-leg deadlifts

Does that sound sane? More or less sane than my instructor's programme?

Also, what's the right way to do shoulder presses? Should the weight be
alongside my head, or alongside the front of my chest, as in a military
press? And should i be sitting on a bench, or in a chair sort of thing? I
did them just sitting on a bench, and when i finished, an old bloke told
me off, and that i should sit in a chair, else i'd do my back in. ExRx's
picture has a guy without a chair, as do several other sites, but then
there are plenty of sites with chairs too. I'm leaning towards using a
chair just to prevent the old guy shouting at me again.

Thanks for (a) reading all that and (b) any comments you might have on it.

Cheers,
tom

a) I think your program looks better than your trainer's.
b) tell the old guy to buzz off - standing or sitting is ok
c) what % of your 1 rep max are you using?
4) what do you want out of this program?
e) How are you getting along with those Swiss sonsabitches?

"Ranieri" <nah> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tom Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi (again),

I started going to a local gym about six weeks ago. I hadn't been working
out for many months before that, and that hadn't been terribly serious
either, so i'm pretty much a beginner; i'm 26 and have a reasonable level
of general fitness (i cycle everywhere, take the stairs rather than the
lift, etc). Anyway, an instructor at the gym gave a programme to follow,
and changed it at a few times afterwards. I had my final followup meeting
yesterday, and now have the programme in its final form.

The trouble is, i'm not convinced it's a very good programme. I'd be
interested to hear what people think.

It starts with ten minutes running on a cross-trainer to warm up, then
there's weights, then there's fifteen minutes running on a treadmill,
then stretching. The ten minutes crosstraining is fine, although maybe
more than really needed to warm up, but the running seems a bit futile -
if it's to warm down, i only need five minutes, and if it's for cardio
training, i need to do at least 20-30. Fifteen isn't doing anything
useful, is it?

The weights are organised on a split routine, alternating upper and lower
body days (sort of - see below). I work out three days a week, so that's
four or five days between either session. I was surprised when he
suggested this; everything i've read says that whole-body workouts are
best for beginners, and i'd certainly consider myself still a beginner. I
do like the idea of giving my various aching bits longer to recover,
though!

The upper body day covers the chest, back and arms; the lower body day
the legs and shoulders. Yes, that's right, legs and shoulders. I don't
understand what he was thinking here.

Anyway, the exercises are:

Chest:
bosu (kind of a half ball thing) push-ups
lever chest presses
cable flys
Back:
lever assisted close-grip chin-ups
cable front pulldowns
lever seated rows
Arms:
dumbbell bicep curls
cable tricep pushdowns
Shoulders:
dumbbell upright rows
dumbbell lateral raises
Legs:
bosu squats (no weight)
lever seated leg press
single-leg lever seated leg press
dumbell lunges
lever hamstring curls

The exercises themselves are fine (the bosu things are for stability -
the idea is to develop all the minor stabilising muscles to support the
big lifts), but (a) there seem to be rather a lot of them, (b) there
seems to be a lot of duplication (pull-downs and chin-ups? chest presses
and flys? upright rows and lateral raises?), and (c) there seem to be
some good ones missing (dips, which i'd been doing in previous versions
of the programme, shoulder or military presses, squats and deadlifts, of
course). The first time i went through this programme, i added back the
dips, and replaced the lateral raises with shoulder presses.

Lastly, the programme specifies sets of ten reps (fine), but three to
four sets per exercise. That seems like overdoing it - doesn't the
research say more than two sets is a waste of time?

If i was writing my own programme from scratch, it'd probably be a
whole-body routine looking something like:

chest presses (or bench presses)
seated rows (or bent-over rows)
dips
pull-ups (probably wide rather than close grip)
shoulder presses
upright rows
deadlifts
straight-leg deadlifts

Does that sound sane? More or less sane than my instructor's programme?

Also, what's the right way to do shoulder presses? Should the weight be
alongside my head, or alongside the front of my chest, as in a military
press? And should i be sitting on a bench, or in a chair sort of thing? I
did them just sitting on a bench, and when i finished, an old bloke told
me off, and that i should sit in a chair, else i'd do my back in. ExRx's
picture has a guy without a chair, as do several other sites, but then
there are plenty of sites with chairs too. I'm leaning towards using a
chair just to prevent the old guy shouting at me again.

Thanks for (a) reading all that and (b) any comments you might have on
it.

Cheers,
tom

a) I think your program looks better than your trainer's.
b) tell the old guy to buzz off - standing or sitting is ok
c) what % of your 1 rep max are you using?
4) what do you want out of this program?
e) How are you getting along with those Swiss sonsabitches?

k) After further review, I'd throw a couple sets of front squats in there -
maybe lose the upright rows.

Firstly, thanks for the answer. Sorry i didn't reply sooner - thought i'd
give it a go in the gym first.

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006, it was written:

Quoted message said:

"Tom Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The trouble is, i'm not convinced it's a very good programme. I'd be
interested to hear what people think.

a) I think your program looks better than your trainer's.

Hooray! I switched to this programme yesterday (apart from the leg stuff -
i remembered i really don't know proper form for deadlifts (see next
post), and AFAICT, my gym actually doesn't have a squat rack, so i'm not
too sure about how to do the squats), and it felt fine. Much better than
all that machine stuff. Although my bench pressing was pretty wobbly - but
that'll sort itself out soon, i imagine.

Quoted message said:

b) tell the old guy to buzz off - standing or sitting is ok

Okay, good to know.

Quoted message said:

c) what % of your 1 rep max are you using?

I have no idea. I've arrived at the weights i'm using by starting low and
working up; if i can do N reps with proper form, i increase the weight
next time. I haven't done any specific 1RM tests.

Quoted message said:

4) what do you want out of this program?

Eh, to get stronger, i suppose. The motivation is 80% the usual guy thing
of wanting to be a bit beefier and 20% the need for more strength when
doing sporty stuff (which in my case is sailing - lots of hauling in of
ropes with several hundred kilos of wind on the other end and stuff like
that).

Quoted message said:

e) How are you getting along with those Swiss sonsabitches?

Assuming you're referring to what i think you're referring to, fine.

tom

--
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity -- Hanlon's Razor