Segway asking for Federally-funded 'segway-friendly' paths in Chicago...



Status
Not open for further replies.
"Robert J. Matter" wrote:
>
> If you want to breathe exhaust fumes and hear a bunch of loud noise and honking and have lit
> cigarettes and beer bottles thrown at you and ride on cracked potholed streets with cagers and
> pass endless miles of ugly car-chitecture and driveways, that is fine.

Yet more distortion and paranoia!

I've been a dedicated cyclist since 1972 or 1973. In a typical year, I ride roughly 2500 miles. I've
ridden in roughly 46 states and four countries.

Breathe exhaust fumes? It's never been a problem. Perhaps once or twice, in all those years, I've
shifted my position while waiting in line at a traffic light.

Loud noise? Traffic can be noisy on busy streets. For that reason, I usually take the parallel side
streets. They are almost always quiet and pleasant. I recall riding to work through a residential
neighborhood, hearing two park employees talking to each other, even though they were half a block
away. Quiet, indeed!

Horns honking? I probably get honked at two or three times a year. Frankly, it's no problem. I ride
properly, and if someone is unreasonable enough to be offended by my presence, that's their problem,
not mine. They're past me soon enough. I ignore the lowbrows.

Lit cigarettes? Never, since 1973, has anyone thrown a lit cigarette at me, nor at my wife, my son
or my daughter.

Beer bottles? Ditto.

Endless miles of cracked and potholed streets? I'm glad I have endless miles of streets to ride on,
rather than being confined to a few miles of bike paths that go nowhere! True, in some ideal world,
cracks and potholes would be magically smoothed, but on most roads, they're not a significant
problem. The worst irritation I've had from a pothole is once (in 25 years of riding) I slightly
dented a rim. I fixed it at home.

Compare this with the wonderful world of bike paths. The ones I'm familiar with around here are not
plowed in the winter. The roads are sometimes rough, but they can be ridden. The last time I tried
to ride a short cut-through bike path (the kind I most approve of), it was absolutely unrideable due
to the melted-and-refrozen footprints of the pedestrians in the six inch layer of snow.

Ugly "car-chitecture"? :) Sounds like you believe bike paths are a cure even for America's
architectural woes! Sorry, Robert, but that's just too far out into fantasy land for me!

Again, as this post demonstrates: To advance your impossible vision of perfect bike paths going
everywhere in America, you are using the tactic of disparaging cycling as it exists. Your dream is
_never_ going to come true, but your method of pursuing it is worsening the very problems you decry.
You are doing your best to dissuade people from cycling on the roads we have.

I'd figure you were some enemy agent, planted by the oil companies and highway builders, except the
people running those industries would never imagine anyone taking you seriously.

Please - just quiet down and go away. And for God's sake, never speak in public. You're doing much
more harm than good.

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]
 
"Robert J. Matter" wrote:
>
> I've had a couple injuries that put me on crutches. What would happen if I sustained another such
> injury and couldn't cycle? How would I travel two miles to the train? Or 1 mile to the post
> office? Or 1/2 mile to the supermarket? I wouldn't want to hobble those distances on crutches. I
> wouldn't want to be dependent on Hammond's shitty bus system that doesn't even run at night. I
> wouldn't want the inconvenience of having to call and wait for a cab (or having to pay for it). I
> think a rental Segway would be a pretty good solution.

Fantasy, again. You have a real proclivity for inventing impossibly rare situations, then using them
to justify your favorite schemes!

If a Segway goes to every person who's temporarily on crutches and wants to rent one, Kamen should
make - oh - several thousand dollars a year renting the things!

That's several thousand dollars _before_ expenses, of course.

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]
 
"Robert J. Matter" wrote:
>
> Bernie wrote:
> >
> > "Robert J. Matter" wrote:
> >
> > > People (except for a small group of affluent white males) shy away from riding in the street
> > > with cars.
> >
> > Where are you getting this information? Do you have any articles or stats? Bernie
>
> ... "This research confirms that women and visible minorities experience greater deterrents to
> cycling than white men and a greater percentage of white, male cyclists were comfortable riding on
> major roads without bike lanes than were visible minority and female cyclists.

Are we talking about bike lanes on existing streets? I thought you wanted to be nowhere near smelly,
polluting, noisy cars! Also the phrase "a greater percentage" doesn't support your assertion.

> "Effective Cycling program graduates are rare, even among serious cyclists. Less than 3,000
> bicyclists have passed the Effective Cycling course (Clarke & Tracy, 1995, p. 67).

Effective Cycling classes can be wonderful. They are great fun, and they are the fastest way to
learn. However, the vast majority of cyclists do fine without the course.

> There have been numerous demographic studies of bicyclists over the years that show them to be top
> heavy with affluent white males. According to Jay Townley's research at
> http://www.bicyclesb2b.com/htm/editor/jays/articles/july2001.htm the average cyclist's household
> income is $63K/year and 56.5% of cyclists are men.

I suspect the definition of "cyclist" is extremely restrictive. In certain areas of southern cities,
the majority of cyclists are low-income Hispanics commuting by bike. In most of the rest of the
country, kids riding bikes around neighborhoods are as numerous as the enthusiastic cyclists you
portray (although horror stories like the ones you tell have done a lot to reduce youth cycling,
much to the shame of the horror-mongers).

> If you spend any time hanging around the Chainguard or BTI mailing lists, home of the most
> eccentric Effective Cyclists, you will observe the bias toward affluent white males there also.
> Based on my observations ...

I have long since lost any respect for your observations.

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]
 
"Dennis P. Harris" wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 15:00:01 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, "Robert J. Matter"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Well as long as you have cagers and bikes commingling you will not have a safe or pleasant road
> > and people will be reluctant to cycle on them or let their children use them.
> >
> i commingle with automobiles all the time and it's perfectly pleasant. many children cycle on the
> same streets and roads without problems. it's only paranoids like you who insist on not riding
> unless you have the perfect car-free ride that are insisting that we need to segregate bicycles.
>
> please, as frank said, do us all a favor. keep your paranoia and unwarranted fear of riding on
> roads WHERE BIKES BELONG to yourself. you are in a very small minority of the cycling community,
> and we don't need idiots like you giving highway engineers the idea that we don't belong on roads,
> or that they should design useless paths instead of safe multimodal roads.
>
> you and your ilk do NOT represent the majority of cyclists, so stop pretending that you do.

Got to agree with that sentiment. If one really wants to learn to be an "effective cyclist", just
ride to work every day. I mean EVERY day. You will not only get good at riding in the street where
the rest of the vehicles travel, you will enjoy it immensely. So cheer up, get with it, enjoy the
ride. Best regards, Bernie
 
On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:46:55 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, "Robert J. Matter"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> We should demand no less than a nationwide path network that mimics the nationwide highway
> network.

we should demand safe roads first.

you are just a one-tune looney who can't figure out how to use a newsreader without creating
multiple threads on the same topic.

it's obvious that your paranoia about riding on roads, something that millions of people do every
day without accident or injury, prevents you from having a rational discussion on this topic.

PLONK
 
On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:30:34 -0500 in rec.bicycles.misc, Frank Krygowski
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Take a street map of any medium-to-large city and mark it up. Show us exactly where you'd put this
> "completely redundant network." Explain how it's going to get the right of way, explain how it's
> going to cross the rivers and streams, explain how it's going to avoid interfacing with the
> existing roads. Then explain how much your pipe dream will cost. Once you're done, post a link to
> the scanned image. I'm sure it will be very educational.

he can't do it, because his looney dream is impossible. this guy is the pro-trail version of mike
v., and should be killfiled by everyone.
 
Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> "Robert J. Matter" wrote:
> >
> > I've had a couple injuries that put me on crutches. What would happen if I sustained another
> > such injury and couldn't cycle? How would I travel two miles to the train? Or 1 mile to the post
> > office? Or 1/2 mile to the supermarket? I wouldn't want to hobble those distances on crutches. I
> > wouldn't want to be dependent on Hammond's shitty bus system that doesn't even run at night. I
> > wouldn't want the inconvenience of having to call and wait for a cab (or having to pay for it).
> > I think a rental Segway would be a pretty good solution.
>
> Fantasy, again. You have a real proclivity for inventing impossibly rare situations, then using
> them to justify your favorite schemes!

Fantasy? What are you talking about? I did have two injuries that put me on crutches. Once when I
was hit by a car when I was on my bike, and once for a sports injury. I could certainly be injured
again. And those are actual distances of places from my apartment. No fantasy there at all.

Andrew Heckman who was participating in the NBG relay ride last year was hit from behind in IL and
sustained severe injuries like a crushed pelvis amongst other things. He is carfree like me and has
expressed interest in a Segway so he could get out of the house and do things like go for a walk
with his wife.

> If a Segway goes to every person who's temporarily on crutches and wants to rent one, Kamen should
> make - oh - several thousand dollars a year renting the things!
>
> That's several thousand dollars _before_ expenses, of course.

You're an idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about just like Dennis Harris. I suggest you
look at the leg/knee/foot injury statistics for the U.S.A.

-Bob Matter Hammond, Indiana
----------------
"People are looking for places where they're not constantly being confronted with cars. It's just
like non-smokers seeking smoke- free space." -Franziska Eichstaedt-Bohlig, German Green Party
 
Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> "Robert J. Matter" wrote:
> >
> > "This research confirms that women and visible minorities experience greater deterrents to
> > cycling than white men and a greater percentage of white, male cyclists were comfortable riding
> > on major roads without bike lanes than were visible minority and female cyclists.
>
> Are we talking about bike lanes on existing streets? I thought you wanted to be nowhere near
> smelly, polluting, noisy cars!

The Lea study refers to individual/personal (vehicular cycling) vs. systemic/social (bike paths and
bike lanes) solutions. So consider mention of a bike lane in the Lea study a systemic solution.

I prefer cycling on trails when I can. When I have to cycle on streets, I prefer bike lanes. I still
don't like the smell and sound of cars though. If it were up to me there would be a lot more carfree
streets and blueways (not blue bike lanes) a.k.a. bicycle boulevards.

> Also the phrase "a greater percentage" doesn't support your assertion.

The study is kind of confusing and there were all kinds of categories and breakdowns. In a nutshell
77%-81% of all cyclists in the study preferred systemic solutions (bike lanes and bike paths). I
didn't assert that all affluent white males were VC True Believers. Only a small handful of them.
That jives with my personal observations. I have met many affluent white males at trail advocacy
meetings and they are as enthusiastic about trails as everybody else.

The small band of affluent white male Vehicular Cycling bullies who try to dominate U.S. cycling
policy also try to dominate the internet. I am not intimidated by them and I encourage other trail
and bike lane supporters to join with me in standing up to them.

We love bike lanes and bike paths. And we want more of them. And we're getting them.

-Bob Matter
-----------
"I support the National Bicycle Greenway and its dream of a nationwide network of interconnected
bike roads and pathways. The NBG's efforts to advance that vision coincide directly with the work I
am doing to establish the bicycle as an important and respected part of the transportation mix. I
don't plan to rest until cycling is a recognized mode of transportation in the minds of engineers,
planners and policy makers. Go Greenway!"
-- Rep. James L. Oberstar (D-MN)
 
"Robert J. Matter" wrote:
>
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >
> > "Robert J. Matter" wrote:
> > >
> > > I've had a couple injuries that put me on crutches. What would happen if I sustained another
> > > such injury and couldn't cycle? How would I travel two miles to the train? Or 1 mile to the
> > > post office? Or 1/2 mile to the supermarket? I wouldn't want to hobble those distances on
> > > crutches. I wouldn't want to be dependent on Hammond's shitty bus system that doesn't even run
> > > at night. I wouldn't want the inconvenience of having to call and wait for a cab (or having to
> > > pay for it). I think a rental Segway would be a pretty good solution.
> >
> > Fantasy, again. You have a real proclivity for inventing impossibly rare situations, then using
> > them to justify your favorite schemes!
>
> Fantasy? What are you talking about? I did have two injuries that put me on crutches. Once when I
> was hit by a car when I was on my bike, and once for a sports injury. I could certainly be injured
> again. And those are actual distances of places from my apartment. No fantasy there at all.

The first fantasy, of course, is that _your_ experience is representative, or that it occurs with
enough frequency to justify a fleet of multi-thousand dollar super-tech scooters.

If you think that your scenario (rental Segways for America's sprained ankles) is going to be a
moneymaker, I suggest you buy into Kamen's company very quick. From what I read, you'll need to do
it soon, while there's a company to buy into! But please, give ol' Dean a few million, and _do_
report back to us in five years! ;-)

>
> Andrew Heckman who was participating in the NBG relay ride last year was hit from behind in IL and
> sustained severe injuries like a crushed pelvis amongst other things. He is carfree like me and
> has expressed interest in a Segway so he could get out of the house and do things like go for a
> walk with his wife.
>
> > If a Segway goes to every person who's temporarily on crutches and wants to rent one, Kamen
> > should make - oh - several thousand dollars a year renting the things!
> >
> > That's several thousand dollars _before_ expenses, of course.
>
> You're an idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about...

Um... Robert, better check your internet account. Some first grader seems to be hijacking it and
posting in your name!

--
Frank Krygowski [email protected]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads