Segway in Hyde Park - sighting



T

Tim Henderson

Guest
Trundling along the bike path in Hyde Park south of the Serpentine last night,
I saw my first Segway (coming in the opposite direction, also on the bike path).

Anyone know how these are classified and the legality of them using the bike lanes ?

Regards,
Tim
 
D

David Hansen

Guest
On 9 Sep 2004 12:19:02 -0700 someone who may be
[email protected] (Tim Henderson) wrote this:-

>I saw my first Segway (coming in the opposite direction, also on the bike >path).


Was the operator a blobby?

Did you turn round and then zoom past them?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
 
I

Ian Smith

Guest
On 9 Sep 2004, Tim Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:

> Anyone know how these are classified and the
> legality of them using the bike lanes ?


If you really want a classification, 'pillock' covers most users, I
think.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
N

[Not Responding]

Guest
On 9 Sep 2004 12:19:02 -0700, [email protected] (Tim Henderson)
wrote:

>Trundling along the bike path in Hyde Park south of the Serpentine last night,
>I saw my first Segway (coming in the opposite direction, also on the bike path).
>
>Anyone know how these are classified and the legality of them using the bike lanes ?


They are classed as "motor vehicles" and as such need indicators,
insurance, registration, road tax (free or cheap for electric vehicles
iirc) etc.

So, no, they are not allowed in bike lanes.
 
E

elyob

Guest
"Tim Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Trundling along the bike path in Hyde Park south of the Serpentine last
> night,
> I saw my first Segway (coming in the opposite direction, also on the bike
> path).
>
> Anyone know how these are classified and the legality of them using the
> bike lanes ?


As long as they don't get in the way. However, pedestrians in bike lanes.
THAT really annoys me.
 
P

Peter Clinch

Guest
Ian Smith wrote:

> If you really want a classification, 'pillock' covers most users, I
> think.


But not all... I've only ever seen two, but they were being ridden by
Peter and Melanie Gabriel on stage as they sang "Games Without
Frontiers". PG later sang "Solsbury Hill" from the saddle of a New
Series Moulton at the same gig. GWF is about eejits and SH is about
personal liberation, seemed quite an apposite choice of vehicles!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
T

Tim Izod

Guest
[Not Responding] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9 Sep 2004 12:19:02 -0700, [email protected] (Tim Henderson)
> wrote:


> >Trundling along the bike path in Hyde Park south of the Serpentine last night,
> >I saw my first Segway (coming in the opposite direction, also on the bike path).
> >
> >Anyone know how these are classified and the legality of them using the bike lanes ?


> They are classed as "motor vehicles" and as such need indicators,
> insurance, registration, road tax (free or cheap for electric vehicles
> iirc) etc.


> So, no, they are not allowed in bike lanes.


I'm curious- on what grounds are they considered motor vehicles?

Or are they one of the more ambiguous conveyances that the
police treat as motor vehicles "because we say so"?

My curiosity comes from having played with some odd things that
aren't motor vehicles because of low engine capacity and their drive
mechanism.
--
Tim.
 
K

Kennedy Fraser

Guest
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:08:03 +0100, Peter Clinch wrote:

> Ian Smith wrote:
>
>> If you really want a classification, 'pillock' covers most users, I
>> think.

>
> But not all... I've only ever seen two, but they were being ridden by
> Peter and Melanie Gabriel on stage as they sang "Games Without
> Frontiers". PG later sang "Solsbury Hill" from the saddle of a New
> Series Moulton at the same gig. GWF is about eejits and SH is about
> personal liberation, seemed quite an apposite choice of vehicles!
>


Having seen them at this year's PG concert at the SECC I was quite
disappointed not to see them in the DVD of the Growing Up tour.

PG's control of the Segway and indeed the Zorb ball was quite impressive.

Kennedy
 
P

Peter Clinch

Guest
Kennedy Fraser wrote:

> Having seen them at this year's PG concert at the SECC I was quite
> disappointed not to see them in the DVD of the Growing Up tour.


That's the one I was at. Very good gig, would've been even better if
the venue hadn't hired Total Wankers for the security detail. Hey ho.

> PG's control of the Segway and indeed the Zorb ball was quite impressive.


Did you get the "Encore" series CD of that specific concert? I did,
it's a very good job, and listening to the audience roar in "Growing Up"
as he got the ball bouncing brings back a very clear picture if it, with
no DVD required!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
S

Simon Brooke

Guest
in message <[email protected]>, Tim Izod
('[email protected]') wrote:

> [Not Responding] <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 9 Sep 2004 12:19:02 -0700, [email protected] (Tim
>> Henderson) wrote:

>
>> >Trundling along the bike path in Hyde Park south of the Serpentine
>> >last night, I saw my first Segway (coming in the opposite direction,
>> >also on the bike path).
>> >
>> >Anyone know how these are classified and the legality of them using
>> >the bike lanes ?

>
>> They are classed as "motor vehicles" and as such need indicators,
>> insurance, registration, road tax (free or cheap for electric
>> vehicles iirc) etc.

>
>> So, no, they are not allowed in bike lanes.

>
> I'm curious- on what grounds are they considered motor vehicles?


They have motors, and they are vehicles, therefore they are motor
vehicles. D'oh!

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Life would be much easier if I had the source code.
 
D

davek

Guest
Tim Izod wrote:
> I'm curious- on what grounds are they considered motor vehicles?


They are vehicles. And they have a motor.

d.
 
K

Kennedy Fraser

Guest
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:22:16 +0100, Peter Clinch wrote:

> Kennedy Fraser wrote:
>
>> Having seen them at this year's PG concert at the SECC I was quite
>> disappointed not to see them in the DVD of the Growing Up tour.

>
> That's the one I was at. Very good gig, would've been even better if
> the venue hadn't hired Total Wankers for the security detail. Hey ho.


My problem was the idiot behind me who, despite being 'nicely' asked not
to, insisted on wolf-whistling at every applause about 2 feet from my right
ear - I swear it was louder than the PA!.

>
>> PG's control of the Segway and indeed the Zorb ball was quite impressive.

>
> Did you get the "Encore" series CD of that specific concert? I did,
> it's a very good job


I knew not of these - but Google has revealed all!

Thanks for this

Kennedy
 
D

Dave Kahn

Guest
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 23:30:29 GMT, "elyob" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Tim Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]


>> Anyone know how these are classified and the legality of them using the
>> bike lanes ?

>
>As long as they don't get in the way. However, pedestrians in bike lanes.
>THAT really annoys me.


However annoying it might be, pedestrians are allowed to walk in the
bike lane.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain
 
D

davek

Guest
Dave Kahn wrote:
> However annoying it might be, pedestrians are allowed to walk in the
> bike lane.


Pedestrians are allowed to walk more or less anywhere, aren't they? Not
on the motorway, perhaps, but ISTR that on most roads pedestrians have
priority. Maybe I'm imagining it - I'm sure someone will be only too
happy to correct me if I'm wrong.

In any case, I'm fairly certain we don't yet have the crime of
jaywalking in the UK.

d.
 
D

David Hansen

Guest
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:16:39 +0100 someone who may be davek
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>> I'm curious- on what grounds are they considered motor vehicles?

>
>They are vehicles. And they have a motor.


So do electric bikes, but they are not classed as motor vehicles in
legal terms.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
 
S

Simon Brooke

Guest
in message <3rf8k09im[email protected]>, David Hansen
('[email protected]') wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:16:39 +0100 someone who may be davek
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>> I'm curious- on what grounds are they considered motor vehicles?

>>
>>They are vehicles. And they have a motor.


In fact, to be precise, two motors.

> So do electric bikes, but they are not classed as motor vehicles in
> legal terms.


In that case the law is perverse, and an ass.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Wannabe a Web designer?
<URL:http://userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/97dec/19971206.html>
 
M

MartinM

Guest
"Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> in message <[email protected]>, David Hansen
> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:16:39 +0100 someone who may be davek
> > <[email protected]> wrote this:-
> >
> >>> I'm curious- on what grounds are they considered motor vehicles?
> >>
> >>They are vehicles. And they have a motor.

>
> In fact, to be precise, two motors.
>
> > So do electric bikes, but they are not classed as motor vehicles in
> > legal terms.

>
> In that case the law is perverse, and an ass.


I'm confused; IIRC the electric bike bill was introduced c1983 by MoT Linda
Chalker presumably to allow Sir Clive to build the C5, the specification was
no more than 15mph using motor power and IIRC min age 14. Pedals were not
specified. How does the Segway break this law?
 
D

davek

Guest
MartinM wrote:
> Pedals were not
> specified. How does the Segway break this law?


I've just cut-and-pasted the below from the dft. Note the mention of
pedals. It is also specifically listed as a motor vehicle.

Also note that you cannot legally drive a motor vehicle unless you are
"in possession of ... road tax". So, that'll be the Inland Revenue then.

Also note the section on roller blades copied for the benefit of whoever
it was that brought them up.

d.

*********************

10.3 Legal status of various transport devices

10.3.1 Some of the following devices are powered but not all such
vehicles are classed as motor vehicles for the purposes of Road Traffic
Legislation. Any device classed as a motor vehicle can only be legally
operated by someone in possession of a driver's licence, road tax, and
insurance. These vehicles also have to be registered and must be fitted
with a registration plate or plates. Motor vehicles cannot normally be
used on footways, footpaths, or cycle tracks.

Manual/electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters

10.3.2 These are categorised as invalid carriages and are broken down
into three categories:

* Class 1 - Manual, self propelled or attendant propelled wheelchairs.
* Class 2 - Powered wheelchairs and mobility scooters for footway
use only, with a maximum speed of 4 mph.
* Class 3 - Powered wheelchairs and mobility scooters with a
maximum speed of 8 mph for use on roads. When used on footways they must
not exceed 4 mph and be fitted with a converter which prevents that
speed being exceeded.

10.3.3 An invalid carriage can be used on footways, footpaths,
bridleways or pedestrianised areas providing that it is used in
accordance with the prescribed requirements. Invalid carriages have no
specific right to use a cycle track but users commit no offence in doing
so, unless an order or local bye-law exists creating one. Powered
invalid carriages are not classed as motor vehicles for the purposes of
Road Traffic Legislation (Road Traffic Act 1999, section 185(1)). As
Class 3 carriages can be used on the road, care should be taken when
preparing the wording of a Traffic Regulation Order for cycle lanes so
that these vehicles are not inadvertently banned from using them.

Electrically assisted pedal cycles (EAPCs)

10.3.4 These come under the 1983 EAPC regulations and provided they
comply with them, they can legally be used where ordinary pedal cycles
can. EAPCs can only be ridden by someone of 14 years or more. They are
not classed as motor vehicles for the purposes of Road Traffic
Legislation. The requirements for a conventional (single-seat) assisted
bicycle are that it:

* has a motor not capable of exceeding 200w continuous output;
* weighs not more than 40kg unladen;
* has pedals which can propel the machine; and
* has a motor which does not apply power above 15 mph.

10.3.5 If the machine is a tricycle, the above applies except that the
motor can deliver up to 250w continuous output and the unladen weight
limit increases to 60kg. If problems emerge with EAPCs, they can be
excluded from a cycle track through a Traffic Regulation Order under
section 1 or 6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

Other powered vehicles

10.3.6 Apart from cars and motorcycles etc, examples include golf
buggies, the segway human transporter, and any powered scooters or bikes
that do not comply with the EAPC regulations. They are all classed as
motor vehicles for the purposes of Road Traffic Legislation. Their use
is therefore prohibited on footways, footpaths and cycle tracks.

Unpowered scooters and skateboards

10.3.7 The Department's view is that these are capable of being classed
as vehicles (but not motor vehicles). As such, they cannot legally be
used on footpaths, footways or cycle tracks as they have no right of
way, but enforcement is not generally a practicable proposition. That
said, local bye-laws can be created banning them.

Roller blades/skates

10.3.8 It has not been established in case law whether these are classed
as vehicles or not. If they are, they cannot legally be used on
footways, footpaths or cycle tracks. In any event, and as with unpowered
scooters and skateboards, enforcement is not generally a practicable
proposition although local bye-laws can be created banning them.
 
D

davek

Guest
I wrote:
> I've just cut-and-pasted the below from the dft.


Meant to add, here's the source if you're interested:
<url:http://tinyurl.com/5yyyc>

d.
 
D

davek

Guest
I wrote:
> Meant to add, here's the source if you're interested:
> <url:http://tinyurl.com/5yyyc>


And of course I've just realised that this is a consultation paper, so
is not actually law yet.

d.