(SEMI OT) eBay/PayPal surcharge?



"Alex Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
> >I've had nothing but success with eBay. I've had one
> >buyer screw me over,
>
> Anyone else see something wrong with this statement?
> ---------------
> Alex

Ah, smartass. Out of 200+ transactions, one hiccup? Not bad.
Okay, I've had overwhelmingly positive experiences with
eBay. How's that?
 
"Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bestest Handsander" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:lKCdnTITEthE3RDdRVn-
> [email protected]...
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > >I know. I've sold a bunch on eBay. I don't care what
> > > >the seller is
> TRYING
> > to
> > > >do, it's against eBay and PayPal policy. The seller
> > > >is trying, in a
> way,
> > to
> > > >have the buyer pay his PayPal fee. If a seller tried
> > > >to get me to pay
> an
> > > >additional 3% I would tell him where to go.
> > >
> > >
> > > If you bid on the auction when he already stated a "3%
> > > money order/cash discount" then you have to pay it.
> > > You agreed to the sellers terms.
> > >
> > > Nearly all sellers who charge the 3% state so in their
> > > ads. They don't try to add it on later on because they
> > > know that they can't add charges in after the fact.
> > >
> > > Theres nothing you can do about ti really other than
> > > avoid those auctions but theres lots of other bidders
> > > who don't seem to care about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > I'll skip an auction where the seller wants 3% extra.
> >
> > Ahem. It's a free market. If the seller wants the buyer
> > to pick up the
> 3%
> > and lists that in his payment terms... more power to
> > him. If the buyer doesn't want to do that, he bids on
> > something else. Everyone is free to choose. I gots no
> > problem with any of that.
> >
> >
> Again, IT'S AGAINST THE RULES. Not a free market, and the
> seller cannot expect the buyer to pick up the 3%, whether
> he states so or not. eBay and PayPal both specifically do
> not allow the charging of surcharges.

Oh my hell! It's AGAINST THE RULES! Now I have to go to the
principal's office and write that 1000 times on the
chalkboard! Goose, be sure to stand at the front of the
room and take the names of anyone who says anything bad
about a rule.

We all know that only HEAVILY regulated commerce is the only
good commerce. Any freedom of choice is BAD! After all,
consumers don't know what's good for them! We all just need
to learn... if it's legal, it's moral... if it's against the
rules it's immoral. I'm so glad Ebay, Paypal, California, et
al have relieved me of the burden of having to decide what
is right and appropriate.

<sarcasm mode off> I wasn't advocating this practice. I
simply said I have no problem with it. "The Rules" do not
determine if it's a good practice or not. They simply
reflect the decision of some nameless bureaucrat somewhere.
Sellers on eBay do not have Merchant Account agreements with
credit card companies. In fact, PayPal is/was involved in
some pretty heavy legal battles along those very lines,
because the credit card companies didn't like all those
ordinary people having access to accepting CC payments. Good
thing PayPal didn't just accept the "Rules" when it started
that practice.

<all right... the sarcasm mode crept on a little toward
the end there
 
> <sarcasm mode off> I wasn't advocating this practice. I
> simply said I
have
> no problem with it. "The Rules" do not determine if it's a
> good practice
or
> not.

But if one is going to sell an item on eBay and use PayPal,
then one must abide by the user agreement. Period. It's
their club, and their rules. And you should have a problem
with a seller trying to get a buyer to pay a fee for which
the seller is obligated. Sellers benefit just as much (if
not more) from PayPal as buyers do. Just the fact that
payment is practically instant(compared to waiting for a
check or money order) makes up the 3%.
 
"Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> > <sarcasm mode off> I wasn't advocating this practice. I
> > simply said I
> have
> > no problem with it. "The Rules" do not determine if it's
> > a good
practice
> or
> > not.
>
> But if one is going to sell an item on eBay and use
> PayPal, then one must abide by the user agreement. Period.
> It's their club, and their rules. And you should have a
> problem with a seller trying to get a buyer to pay a fee
> for which the seller is obligated. Sellers benefit just as
> much (if not more) from PayPal as buyers do. Just the fact
> that payment is practically instant(compared to waiting
> for a check or money order) makes up the 3%.
>

No... no period. PayPal or Ebay may try to slap my wrist for
not following their rule, but who's to say their rule is
legal. I just hire a lawyer and file suit claiming restraint
of trade, impeding interstate commerce, or anything else
that rows my boat. They back off because their bean counters
tell them it's not a cost-affective fight, and life goes on.

PayPal offers no convenience to the occasional seller. The
money may arrive in the paypal account as soon as it's
submitted, but it takes 2-4 days for it to arrive in your
bank account. A money order would have arrived in the same
amount of time via 1st class. PayPal offers the buyer some
protection , but people report PayPal regularly abuses that
power. Take a look at www.paypalsucks.com all look at all
the legal battles the company has on it's hands for just
such actions.

The BUYER gets his money protected. The BUYER gets the item
shipped sooner. If the BUYER wants these things, why can't
he pay the extra 3% for it or choose to buy from a seller
you is willing to pay it for them? Oh, I forgot. "IT'S
AGAINST THE RULES". Well, maybe if PayPal would abide by its
own rules, I'd find that a more convincing argument (again,
peruse www.paypalsucks.com).
 
Never saw a paypal policy saying you can't shift the
surcharge to a payer. Any tips?

I thought Paypal is merely a funds transfer service and is
not involved in the business deal between parties, even
though it's an Ebay company in terms of corporate ownership.

"Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > <sarcasm mode off> I wasn't advocating this practice. I
> > simply said I
> have
> > no problem with it. "The Rules" do not determine if it's
> > a good practice
> or
> > not.
>
> But if one is going to sell an item on eBay and use
> PayPal, then one must abide by the user agreement. Period.
> It's their club, and their rules. And you should have a
> problem with a seller trying to get a buyer to pay a fee
> for which the seller is obligated. Sellers benefit just as
> much (if not more) from PayPal as buyers do. Just the fact
> that payment is practically instant(compared to waiting
> for a check or money order) makes up the 3%.
 
"Bestest Handsander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > <sarcasm mode off> I wasn't advocating this practice.
> > > I simply said I
> > have
> > > no problem with it. "The Rules" do not determine if
> > > it's a good
> practice
> > or
> > > not.
> >
> > But if one is going to sell an item on eBay and use
> > PayPal, then one
must
> > abide by the user agreement. Period. It's their club,
> > and their rules.
And
> > you should have a problem with a seller trying to get a
> > buyer to pay a
fee
> > for which the seller is obligated. Sellers benefit just
> > as much (if not more) from PayPal as buyers do. Just the
> > fact that payment is
practically
> > instant(compared to waiting for a check or money order)
> > makes up the 3%.
> >
>
> No... no period. PayPal or Ebay may try to slap my
> wrist for not
following
> their rule, but who's to say their rule is legal. I just
> hire a lawyer
and
> file suit claiming restraint of trade, impeding interstate
> commerce, or anything else that rows my boat. They back
> off because their bean
counters
> tell them it's not a cost-affective fight, and life
> goes on.
>
> PayPal offers no convenience to the occasional seller. The
> money may
arrive
> in the paypal account as soon as it's submitted, but it
> takes 2-4 days for it to arrive in your bank account. A
> money order would have arrived in the same amount of time
> via 1st class. PayPal offers the buyer some
protection
> , but people report PayPal regularly abuses that power.
> Take a look at www.paypalsucks.com all look at all the
> legal battles the company has on it's hands for just such
> actions.
>
> The BUYER gets his money protected. The BUYER gets the
> item shipped
sooner.
> If the BUYER wants these things, why can't he pay the
> extra 3% for it or choose to buy from a seller you is
> willing to pay it for them? Oh, I forgot. "IT'S AGAINST
> THE RULES". Well, maybe if PayPal would abide by
its
> own rules, I'd find that a more convincing argument
> (again, peruse www.paypalsucks.com).
>
Yada yada yada. Bottom line is if the SELLER agrees to
accept PayPal, he has to follow PayPal's rules, which he
agreed to when signing up. I know all the PayPal horror
stories, but no one is forcing sellers to use it. They are
welcome to use BidPay or only accept money orders or cash.
No seller would have a leg to stand on, asking for an
additional 3%. Why, if I'm to follow your logic, couldn't
all eBay sellers ask for an additional percentage after
closing to cover the eBay listing fee?
 
"threefire" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Never saw a paypal policy saying you can't shift the
> surcharge to a payer. Any tips?

Here's the link to eBay's policy:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-surcharges.html

And here is the text of an email I received from eBay
customer support when I queried eBay about PayPal
surcharges:

Return-path: <[email protected]> Received: from ms-mta-01
(ms-mta-01-smtp [10.10.4.5]) by ms-mss-02.tampabay.rr.com
(iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8
2003)) with ESMTP id <0HWR0077Y3K4WB@ms-mss-
02.tampabay.rr.com> for

Received: from flmx05.mgw.rr.com (flmx05.mgw.rr.com
[65.32.1.51]) by ms-mta-01.tampabay.rr.com (iPlanet
Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with
ESMTP id <[email protected]> for

25 Apr 2004 19:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smf-klm-
01.corp.ebay.com (outbound1.smf.ebay.com [66.135.215.134])
by flmx05.mgw.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id
i3PNoPxV021991 for

Received: from [66.135.215.174] (HELO smf-kas-
12.corp.ebay.com) by smf-klm-01.corp.ebay.com (CommuniGate
Pro SMTP 4.1.5)

25 Apr 2004 16:50:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:50:25
-0700 From: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]>
Subject: IV91004 Your recent email to eBay's Trust and
Safety Department (KMM112872130V36990L0KM)

Reply-to: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]> Message-
id: <[email protected]> MIME-
version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KANA Response 6.5.0.309 Content-type:
text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to write eBay with your
concerns. I'm happy to help you further.

We consider this type of activity to be a form of fee
avoidance, and I understand the concern this can cause. In
order for me to take action on your report, please send me a
copy of the actual email along with its full header where
the member is avoiding fees. Also, please be advised that,
in order for eBay to investigate this matter further, you
must submit the email and header in a single email.

Here's the paragraph from PayPal's website stating their
policy.....

Surcharging for all PayPal payments is prohibited outside of
the United Kingdom. According to our User Agreement, sellers
residing in the United Kingdom and listing items for sale on
a UK-based website may impose a surcharge, but only under
the following conditions: Both the buyer and seller reside
in the United Kingdom The purchase price is paid in Pounds
Sterling The surcharge imposed by the seller is no greater
than is necessary to recover the receiving fees incurred by
the seller The seller clearly indicates to the buyer prior
to the buyer's submission of a bid or (in non-auction
transactions) prior to the completion of the purchase, that
a surcharge will be incurred and the seller must indicate
the amount of the surcharge.

I found that by going to Merchant Tools on the main PayPal
page, clicking on Security Center(bottom of page under Fraud
Protection). Then on the next page I clicked on "report a
problem", then on the next page I typed "surcharge", after I
highlighted "Getting Started" and Fees. The next page brings
up search results, the first of which is "Why are
transactions that include a surcharge not eligible for the
Seller Protection Policy". Sellers are not allowed by either
eBay OR PayPal to ask for additional fees for accepting
PayPal. Period. You are free to charge whatever handling fee
you think you can get away with, but charging a surcharge is
not allowed.
 
Interesting that the paypal's policy is described under this
heading: "The Seller Protection Policy can only be extended
by PayPal to sellers who have covered the PayPal fees for
the transaction." In fact, the paragraph is a piece of badly
worded "legal" literature.

As a funds transfer service, paypal has no say as to the
shifting of surcharge. All it needs to know is Party A,
amount, Party B. That's
it.

It's only when it gets involved in an auction transaction
that it starts to have any say as to surcharges. In this
instance, its involvement is the seller protection policy.
In other words, paypal cannot say, "no, you are not allowed
to impose surcharges if you use paypal". It can only say,
"you won't get seller protection if you charge a surcharge."
But paypal's protection has always been a joke.

As for ebay policy, like I said, as long as I never
mislead the buyer to believe he can use creditcard via
paypal without incurring a fee, and as long as I keep the
mail-a-check option available, I don't see any ethical
problem with it.

Let's no get hung up on these so called policies. They are
private company's policies, not laws. The truth is that in
this country, below a threshold for legal action, people
are allowed to screw one another. A bit cynical but true.
Ebay will not sue you for shifting $2.5 charge to the
buyer of some bike pedals. Sometimes you get a fivolous
parking ticket, and you just pay it to save the hassle of
fighting it.

"Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "threefire" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Never saw a paypal policy saying you can't shift the
> > surcharge to a payer. Any tips?
>
> Here's the link to eBay's policy:
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-
> surcharges.html
>
> And here is the text of an email I received from eBay
> customer support when I queried eBay about PayPal
> surcharges:
>
> Return-path: <[email protected]> Received: from ms-mta-01
> (ms-mta-01-smtp [10.10.4.5]) by ms-mss-02.tampabay.rr.com
> (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8
> 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HWR0077Y3K4WB@ms-mss-
> 02.tampabay.rr.com> for

> Received: from flmx05.mgw.rr.com (flmx05.mgw.rr.com
> [65.32.1.51]) by ms-mta-01.tampabay.rr.com (iPlanet
> Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with
> ESMTP id <[email protected]> for

> 25 Apr 2004 19:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smf-klm-
> 01.corp.ebay.com (outbound1.smf.ebay.com
> [66.135.215.134]) by flmx05.mgw.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.8)
> with ESMTP id i3PNoPxV021991 for

> Received: from [66.135.215.174] (HELO smf-kas-
> 12.corp.ebay.com) by smf-klm-01.corp.ebay.com (CommuniGate
> Pro SMTP 4.1.5)

> 25 Apr 2004 16:50:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004
> 16:50:25 -0700 From: eBay Customer Support
> <[email protected]> Subject: IV91004 Your recent email
> to eBay's Trust and Safety Department
> (KMM112872130V36990L0KM)

> Reply-to: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]>
> Message-id: <auto-000023202932@smf-klm-
> 01.corp.ebay.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KANA
> Response 6.5.0.309 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-
> ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned:
> Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine

>
> Hello,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to write eBay with your
> concerns. I'm happy to help you further.
>
> We consider this type of activity to be a form of fee
> avoidance, and I understand the concern this can cause.
> In order for me to take action on your report, please
> send me a copy of the actual email along with its full
> header where the member is avoiding fees. Also, please be
> advised that, in order for eBay to investigate this
> matter further, you must submit the email and header in a
> single email.
>
>
> Here's the paragraph from PayPal's website stating their
> policy.....
>
>
>
> Surcharging for all PayPal payments is prohibited outside
> of the United Kingdom. According to our User Agreement,
> sellers residing in the United Kingdom and listing items
> for sale on a UK-based website may impose a surcharge, but
> only under the following conditions: Both the buyer and
> seller reside in the United Kingdom The purchase price is
> paid in Pounds Sterling The surcharge imposed by the
> seller is no greater than is necessary to recover the
> receiving fees incurred by the seller The seller clearly
> indicates to the buyer prior to the buyer's submission of
> a bid or (in non-auction transactions) prior to the
> completion of the purchase, that a surcharge will be
> incurred and the seller must indicate the amount of the
> surcharge.
>
> I found that by going to Merchant Tools on the main PayPal
> page, clicking on Security Center(bottom of page under
> Fraud Protection). Then on the next page I clicked on
> "report a problem", then on the next page I typed
> "surcharge", after I highlighted "Getting Started" and
> Fees. The next page brings up search results, the first of
> which is "Why are transactions that include a surcharge
> not eligible for the Seller Protection Policy". Sellers
> are not allowed by either eBay OR PayPal to ask for
> additional fees for accepting PayPal. Period. You are free
> to charge whatever handling fee you think you can get away
> with, but charging a surcharge is not allowed.
 
no but they will suspend your ebay or paypal account. Try
and remember, you're NOT dealing with a state governed bank,
and state banking rules don't apply. Its operating as a
private trust fund institution basically, membership is a
priveledge, not a right.

threefire wrote:

> Interesting that the paypal's policy is described under
> this heading: "The Seller Protection Policy can only be
> extended by PayPal to sellers who have covered the PayPal
> fees for the transaction." In fact, the paragraph is a
> piece of badly worded "legal" literature.
>
> As a funds transfer service, paypal has no say as to the
> shifting of surcharge. All it needs to know is Party A,
> amount, Party B. That's
> it.
>
> It's only when it gets involved in an auction transaction
> that it starts to have any say as to surcharges. In this
> instance, its involvement is the seller protection
> policy. In other words, paypal cannot say, "no, you are
> not allowed to impose surcharges if you use paypal". It
> can only say, "you won't get seller protection if you
> charge a surcharge." But paypal's protection has always
> been a joke.
>
> As for ebay policy, like I said, as long as I never
> mislead the buyer to believe he can use creditcard via
> paypal without incurring a fee, and as long as I keep the
> mail-a-check option available, I don't see any ethical
> problem with it.
>
> Let's no get hung up on these so called policies. They are
> private company's policies, not laws. The truth is that in
> this country, below a threshold for legal action, people
> are allowed to screw one another. A bit cynical but true.
> Ebay will not sue you for shifting $2.5 charge to the
> buyer of some bike pedals. Sometimes you get a fivolous
> parking ticket, and you just pay it to save the hassle of
> fighting it.
>
> "Gooserider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > "threefire" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Never saw a paypal policy saying you can't shift the
> > > surcharge to a payer. Any tips?
> >
> > Here's the link to eBay's policy:
> >
> > http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-
> > surcharges.html
> >
> > And here is the text of an email I received from eBay
> > customer support when I queried eBay about PayPal
> > surcharges:
> >
> > Return-path: <[email protected]> Received: from ms-mta-
> > 01 (ms-mta-01-smtp [10.10.4.5]) by ms-mss-
> > 02.tampabay.rr.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix
> > 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HWR0077Y3K4WB@ms-mss-
> > 02.tampabay.rr.com> for

> > Received: from flmx05.mgw.rr.com (flmx05.mgw.rr.com
> > [65.32.1.51]) by ms-mta-01.tampabay.rr.com (iPlanet
> > Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003))
> > with ESMTP id <0HWR00DE83K4IR@ms-mta-
> > 01.tampabay.rr.com> for

> > 25 Apr 2004 19:50:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smf-klm-
> > 01.corp.ebay.com (outbound1.smf.ebay.com
> > [66.135.215.134]) by flmx05.mgw.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.8)
> > with ESMTP id i3PNoPxV021991 for

> > Received: from [66.135.215.174] (HELO smf-kas-
> > 12.corp.ebay.com) by smf-klm-01.corp.ebay.com
> > (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.5)

> > 25 Apr 2004 16:50:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004
> > 16:50:25 -0700 From: eBay Customer Support
> > <[email protected]> Subject: IV91004 Your recent email
> > to eBay's Trust and Safety Department
> > (KMM112872130V36990L0KM)

> > Reply-to: eBay Customer Support <[email protected]> Message-
> > id: <[email protected]> MIME-
> > version: 1.0 X-Mailer: KANA Response 6.5.0.309 Content-
> > type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-
> > encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan
> > Engine

> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Thank you for taking the time to write eBay with your
> > concerns. I'm happy to help you further.
> >
> > We consider this type of activity to be a form of fee
> > avoidance, and I understand the concern this can cause.
> > In order for me to take action on your report, please
> > send me a copy of the actual email along with its full
> > header where the member is avoiding fees. Also, please
> > be advised that, in order for eBay to investigate this
> > matter further, you must submit the email and header in
> > a single email.
> >
> >
> > Here's the paragraph from PayPal's website stating their
> > policy.....
> >
> >
> >
> > Surcharging for all PayPal payments is prohibited
> > outside of the United Kingdom. According to our User
> > Agreement, sellers residing in the United Kingdom and
> > listing items for sale on a UK-based website may impose
> > a surcharge, but only under the following conditions:
> > Both the buyer and seller reside in the United Kingdom
> > The purchase price is paid in Pounds Sterling The
> > surcharge imposed by the seller is no greater than is
> > necessary to recover the receiving fees incurred by the
> > seller The seller clearly indicates to the buyer prior
> > to the buyer's submission of a bid or (in non-auction
> > transactions) prior to the completion of the purchase,
> > that a surcharge will be incurred and the seller must
> > indicate the amount of the surcharge.
> >
> > I found that by going to Merchant Tools on the main
> > PayPal page, clicking on Security Center(bottom of page
> > under Fraud Protection). Then on the next page I clicked
> > on "report a problem", then on the next page I typed
> > "surcharge", after I highlighted "Getting Started" and
> > Fees. The next page brings up search results, the first
> > of which is "Why are transactions that include a
> > surcharge not eligible for the Seller Protection
> > Policy". Sellers are not allowed by either eBay OR
> > PayPal to ask for additional fees for accepting PayPal.
> > Period. You are free to charge whatever handling fee you
> > think you can get away with, but charging a surcharge is
> > not allowed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom Back