Seven Cycles "Sounds Cheap"Touring Frame

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:
> Tim McNamara wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > I finally got a bike with a threadless headset. It's a lot easier to
> > > adjust than threaded. And no problem with an expander breaking through
> > > threads (might be rare but it does happen).
> >
> > The star nut can cause the steerer to break, however.
>
> Of course. There's always a problem, isn't there? Well, it's a nice
> thick steel steerer on that bike, at least <g>.
>
> Funny, today I put a quill adapter into an old steel bike to use a
> threadless-style stem on it. Possibly the worst of all worlds?

I do like the idea, first put forth by Sheldon Brown (as far as I know,
anyway), to use a quill stem in a threadless fork. The best of both
worlds?

 

[[email protected]]

Bill Lloyd wrote:
> On 2006-08-31 21:18:08 -0700, [email protected] said:
>
> > Yep, just like your seatpost. Routine maintainence......the horror!
>
> But something that's really unnecessary on a threadless stem.
>

In theory, a threadless stem could seize to the steerer tube. Unusual?
Sure, but so is a seized quill stem. IME, a seized seatpost is more
common (but still the exception).


> I find with threadless, I have fewer problems with headsets coming
> loose,

If a threaded system is chronically coming loose, blame the person who
set it up, not the design.


> and seeing as I find the right height and then never change it,
> this fancy quill stuff just isn't necessary. Should I ever need to
> change the height, it takes about 5 minutes... less time than it takes
> to regrease a quill stem.

I doubt the last part is accurate. To regrease a quill stem is trivial:
mark the position (I use tape), loosen the bolt, pull the stem, grease,
re-insert. And, you need to pull the stem to service the headset,
anyway. Just grease it then.

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

[email protected] wrote:
>
> I do like the idea, first put forth by Sheldon Brown (as far as I know,
> anyway), to use a quill stem in a threadless fork. The best of both
> worlds?

"Ozark Bicycle" referencing Sheldon Brown in a positive manner? What's
next, "jim beam" endorsing "The Bicycle Wheel"?

--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

 

[[email protected]]

Bill Lloyd wrote:
> On 2006-08-30 10:52:44 -0700, R Brickston <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> said:
>
> > On 30 Aug 2006 10:19:18 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> R Brickston wrote:
> >>> Well, I've discovered that rbt can't really agree on any piece of
> >>> equipment.
> >>
> >> I think you've seen a lot of agreement in this thread.
> >
> > Yes, Seven Cycles product is apparently very overrated.
>
> No, they're good bikes. You can get another bikes that's as good for
> less money, but that doesn't mean the Seven is necessarily "overrated."
>
> Sure, they use marketing to help sell their bikes. They use marketing
> to help sell their bikes for more than they could sell them for than if
> they used less marketing. It's often the way the world works.
>

And a smart consumer might want to avoid such companies.

> >
> > Note that not one advising poster wrote anything like: "I own a Seven"
> > or "I tested a Seven" or "I rode my friends Seven" or "I researched a
> > Seven, but instead bought..."
> >
> >>
> >>> At least with component groups there are only a handful of
> >>> suppliers to argue about.
> >>
> >> I don't think you've seen much arguing (as in, espousing differences)
> >> in this thread, either. No one seems much impressed with the steel
> >> Seven's nuts-and-bolts value, which is where you started.
> >>
> >
> > I'm not defending Seven Cycles, as a matter of fact, the only thing I
> > originally had to go on was 1. Their complete bikes range from $5,000
> > to $9,000 and the the web page, a/k/a "marketing hype."
>
> And so, what's specifically wrong with this?
>
> There's also advice here about lugged steel bikes that cost as much or
> *more* than a Seven, and which weigh *more* and are likely less
> durable.

Are you talking about steel v. steel or steel v. titanium? I doubt a
welded steel frame is more durable than a lugged one.

> That's also fine, you have your set of folks who appreciate
> the way bikes were made in the 60's and 70's, and want a bike that
> appears similar today

IMO, a lugged steel frame is infinitely preferable to a TIG welded
steel frame if the price is similar and all else is equal (i.e.,
tubeset, alignment, prep, paint, etc.). If the lugged frame weighs a
few ounces more, who cares, really? TIG welding steel is a way to lower
production costs. Nothing wrong with that, but the selling price ought
to reflect the lower cost of production, not the craft of a website
copy writer.


>(steel alloys have improved substantially, to
> where they can make a very light and strong bike, but they cannot match
> titanium... you just can't make a bombproof 3 lb 58 cm steel frame,
> where you pretty much can with Ti these days).
>

Titanium is a good choice if you don't mind the welded aesthetic, IMO.
Were I in the market for a Ti frame, I'd look closely at a custom
Habanero from Mark Hickey (Custom 'cuz I like a longer top tube than
most production frames). They seem to be an outstanding value and Mark
seems a standup guy.

 

[[email protected]]

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > I do like the idea, first put forth by Sheldon Brown (as far as I know,
> > anyway), to use a quill stem in a threadless fork. The best of both
> > worlds?
>
> "Ozark Bicycle" referencing Sheldon Brown in a positive manner? What's
> next, "jim beam" endorsing "The Bicycle Wheel"?
>
>

Gee, Tom, I often think SB has good input. I'm not so positive re: the
cult of personality as refected in "a shy person wrote", etc. YMMV (and
I really don't care, so save your keystrokes).

 

[41]

dvt wrote:
> 41 wrote:
> > Planet Bike fenders? Where is the sense of taste man.
>
> I know nothing about Sevens (I just saw a couple of these recently for
> the first time). But I thought I'd defend these fenders...
>
> I've had plenty of trouble cra cking fenders in cold weather. The plastic
> in some fenders seems to get brittle when it's cold out. My Planet Bike
> fenders, on the other hand, have survived plenty of cold weather abuse
> over the past few winters. In my book, they come highly reco mmended.
>
> What don't you like about them?

The basic problems are the following:

1. Function:
-the little plastic mudflap serves no real function except to bump into
your shoes/toe clip;
-they are not quite long enough.
3. Style:
-don't come in silver/chrome
-the competition- SKS and Honjo- look a lot better.

My SKS P45's held up quite well in the cold for several years but the
rear one did crack when I caught it on a door. I am happy with my P35's
now but no longer ride in the snow or abuse them commuting as I once
did.

The gentelman is talking about a many-thousand dollar custom touring
bicycle. The Planet Bike's just don't look right on such a machine.
But then, tastes do vary.

Still, they aren't long enough.


 

[dvt]

41 wrote:
> dvt wrote:
>> 41 wrote:
>>> Planet Bike fenders? Where is the sense of taste man.

>> What don't you like about them?

> The basic problems are the following:
>
> 1. Function:
> -the little plastic mudflap serves no real function except to bump into
> your shoes/toe clip;

True. It's easy enough to remove, though. The mudflap is still on mine,
though.

> -they are not quite long enough.

I've never met a stock fender that *is* long enough. I've always
extended them with a mudflap.

> 3. Style:
> -don't come in silver/chrome
> -the competition- SKS and Honjo- look a lot better.

I can't argue there. I have never tried to make a bike with fenders look
good. In fact, usually the opposite: an unattractive bike is less likely
to be stolen. And I use fenders on the all-weather commuter, the bike
that is locked up on racks more often than any other bike in my stable.

> The gentelman is talking about a many-thousand dollar custom touring
> bicycle. The Planet Bike's just don't look right on such a machine.
> But then, tastes do vary.

Quite true about tastes varying. And as I said before, I won't argue
aesthetics.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)

 

[Jay Beattie]

41 wrote:
> dvt wrote:
> > 41 wrote:
> > > Planet Bike fenders? Where is the sense of taste man.
> >
> > I know nothing about Sevens (I just saw a couple of these recently for
> > the first time). But I thought I'd defend these fenders...
> >
> > I've had plenty of trouble cra cking fenders in cold weather. The plastic
> > in some fenders seems to get brittle when it's cold out. My Planet Bike
> > fenders, on the other hand, have survived plenty of cold weather abuse
> > over the past few winters. In my book, they come highly reco mmended.
> >
> > What don't you like about them?
>
> The basic problems are the following:
>
> 1. Function:
> -the little plastic mudflap serves no real function except to bump into
> your shoes/toe clip;
> -they are not quite long enough.
> 3. Style:
> -don't come in silver/chrome
> -the competition- SKS and Honjo- look a lot better.
>
> My SKS P45's held up quite well in the cold for several years but the
> rear one did crack when I caught it on a door. I am happy with my P35's
> now but no longer ride in the snow or abuse them commuting as I once
> did.
>
> The gentelman is talking about a many-thousand dollar custom touring
> bicycle. The Planet Bike's just don't look right on such a machine.
> But then, tastes do vary.

Ah, yes, style. Then we must have the full wood fenders -- with inlay!
See http://tinyurl.com/2ep9u -- Jay Beattie.

 

[dvt]

Jay Beattie wrote:
> Ah, yes, style. Then we must have the full wood fenders -- with inlay!
> See http://tinyurl.com/2ep9u -- Jay Beattie.

No thanks. I don't think they even look good, and the lack of compound
curvature means I would still get plenty wet. Non-functional *and* ugly
(IMO)... are they expensive, too? If so, where can I get some?
--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Everyone confesses that exertion which brings out all the powers of body
and mind is the best thing for us; but most people do all they can to
get rid of it, and as a general rule nobody does much more than
circumstances drive them to do. -Harriet Beecher Stowe, abolitionist and
novelist (1811-1896)

 

[bfd]

R Brickston wrote:
> On 30 Aug 2006 15:04:29 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> What is the benefit of the lugged frame vs. the TIG welded frame?

Reading material or some different views:

Rivendell
http://www.rivbike.com/html/101_lugs.html

http://www.rivbike.com/html/bikes_lugs.html

Sheldon Brown
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/atlantis.html#lugs

Terra Ferma
http://www.terrafermacycles.com/joinery/lugs/lugs.htm

Bohemian Cycles
http://www.bohemianbicycles.com/lugs.htm

TOM KELLOGG
http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/43.htm

RICHARD SACHS
http://www.richardsachs.com/articles/rsachslug1.html

RON COOPER
http://www.veloworks.com/roncooper/handcutlugs.html

There is more, but you'll need to do your own search.

 

[Jay Beattie]

dvt wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > Ah, yes, style. Then we must have the full wood fenders -- with inlay!
> > See http://tinyurl.com/2ep9u -- Jay Beattie.
>
> No thanks. I don't think they even look good, and the lack of compound
> curvature means I would still get plenty wet. Non-functional *and* ugly
> (IMO)... are they expensive, too? If so, where can I get some?

Some people love them. I don't know why. I also do not know why they
sell so well in Portland, where you need a good pair of full coverage
fenders.

PS -- I use Planet Bike because they are dirt cheap. I have some old
Esges on my touring bike that are better -- maybe. They look nicer. It
is hard to tell in a drenching rain whether minor differences in
fenders makes any difference (to me as opposed to the guy behind me).
Both keep my butt dry. Neither keeps my feet dry, but then nothing
does except for my booties. -- Jay Beattie.

 

[41]

Jay Beattie wrote:

> I use Planet Bike because they are dirt cheap. I have some old
> Esges on my touring bike that are better -- maybe. They look nicer. It
> is hard to tell in a drenching rain whether minor differences in
> fenders makes any difference (to me as opposed to the guy behind me).
> Both keep my butt dry. Neither keeps my feet dry, but then nothing
> does except for my booties. -- Jay Beattie.

This is what mudflaps are for. The British and the French understand
this, and you can buy good mudflaps from the usual sources for either,
or else make from water bottles or milk jugs. Honjo fenders also cover
more than Esge/SKS.