Seven Springs for Senior Nats?

USCF finally picked a time and place for road nationals. Now, we have less than 3 months to go.
Anybody know the area? I expect big hills/mountains, how big? What is late May weather like? Any
other info would be appreciated. Greg Miller

 

Seven Springs is approx. one hour east of Pittsburgh, and yes expect some climbs. Elevation at the
resort is approx. 2900'. Expect May weather to be 60-70 degree range. Don't know the course yet but
will find out this week and post any info. You can check out the resort website at:
www.7springs.com/

>Subject: Seven Springs for Senior Nats? From: [email protected] (Bikerecker) Date: 3/18/2003 9:54
>PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>USCF finally picked a time and place for road nationals. Now, we have less than 3 months to go.
>Anybody know the area? I expect big hills/mountains, how big? What is late May weather like? Any
>other info would be appreciated. Greg Miller

 

I would also like to know more about the area. What length the climbs in that area are and
how steep.

thanks, jason

 

"Jason Waddell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I would also like to know more about the area. What length the climbs in that area are and
> how steep.

You don't need to know what the climbs are like. You are a fat sprinter. You were too much of a
coward to pull through in that race last year when Lance asked you to. Stick to field sprints.

sincerely,

Tom KKKunich

 

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:iv3ea.2501

> You are a fat sprinter.

Your focus on fat, both when you're serious and when you're not, has gotten tiresome.

JT

--
*******************************************
NB: reply-to address is munged

Visit http://www.jt10000.com
*******************************************

 

Jason Waddell <[email protected]> wrote:
> I would also like to know more about the area. What length the climbs in that area are and
> how steep.

Here's the topo map view:

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?z=17&n=4431499&e=645283&s=50&size=l

can't really describe the roads, I haven't been there in 20 years or so.

Ben

 

[email protected] (Bikerecker) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> USCF finally picked a time and place for road nationals. Now, we have less than 3 months to go.
> Anybody know the area? I expect big hills/mountains, how big? What is late May weather like? Any
> other info would be appreciated. Greg Miller

for Wednesday and Thursday. Genius scheduling for elite nationals/amateur right???? And for those
who are doing both the TT and RR, enjoy your evening rest...IF YOU ARE LISTENING IN COLORADO,

More time from work for most people who already spend all their vacation on LAME NRC stage races
getting ready for nats, stage races were the amateur are treated like shit. It would be nice this
two day event could be scheduled to coincide with the weekend. This schedule means a whole week off
of work...Shit the real "Pros" who race for a living get to have their championship on a weekend. Am
I the only one who thinks this scheduling SUCKS! Not to mention why can't this be schedule at the
begining of the year. It is an annual event, and the date and place are scheduled in March "hmm when
should we plan for this..." Not to mention that the travel to other races around this event has been
booked by many teams. So now you just have a nice 3 week east coast swing..UGH!

How to Schedule Nats by RVD

1. PICK A WEEKEND DATE in the late spring.
2. A location which doesn't suck!
3. Doesn't suck means a major AIRPORT NEAR BY! And no extreme in temperatures, and little
likelyhood of rain.
4. Pick a course that doesn't suck.
5. Course that doesn't suck means, some hills, and a open road! This isn't crit nats.
6. Have the TT two day before the RR, not day before.
7. On the same coast as the previous week NRC event, or in a middle of the country location that is
not Cincinnati, but at least two weeks after the last major stage race. In this case Gila, so ok.

RVD I had other thoughts but need to get back to work.

 

>Subject: Re: Seven Springs for Senior Nats? From: [email protected] (Rik Van Diesel)
>Date: 3/19/03 4:33 PM Central Standard Time Message-id:
><[email protected]>
>
>[email protected] (Bikerecker) wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>> USCF finally picked a time and place for road nationals. Now, we have less than 3 months to go.
>> Anybody know the area? I expect big hills/mountains,
>how
>> big? What is late May weather like? Any other info would be appreciated. Greg Miller
>

>for Wednesday and Thursday. Genius scheduling for elite nationals/amateur right???? And for those
>who are doing both the TT and RR, enjoy your evening rest...IF YOU ARE LISTENING IN COLORADO,

>More time from work for most people who already spend all their vacation on LAME NRC stage races
>getting ready for nats, stage races were the amateur are treated like shit. It would be nice this
>two day event could be scheduled to coincide with the weekend. This schedule means a whole week off
>of work...Shit the real "Pros" who race for a living get to have their championship on a weekend.
>Am I the only one who thinks this scheduling SUCKS! Not to mention why can't this be schedule at
>the begining of the year. It is an annual event, and the date and place are scheduled in March "hmm
>when should we plan for this..." Not to mention that the travel to other races around this event
>has been booked by many teams. So now you just have a nice 3 week east coast swing..UGH!
>
>How to Schedule Nats by RVD
>
>1. PICK A WEEKEND DATE in the late spring.
>2. A location which doesn't suck!
>3. Doesn't suck means a major AIRPORT NEAR BY! And no extreme in temperatures, and little
> likelyhood of rain.
>4. Pick a course that doesn't suck.
>5. Course that doesn't suck means, some hills, and a open road! This isn't crit nats.
>6. Have the TT two day before the RR, not day before.
>7. On the same coast as the previous week NRC event, or in a middle of the country location that
> is not Cincinnati, but at least two weeks after the last major stage race. In this case Gila,
> so ok.
>
>
>RVD I had other thoughts but need to get back to work.

I just saw that they changed the date of nats. WTF are they thinking? I would bet that over 80% of
the cat 1's at road nats have jobs and will have to waste valuable vacation time to go to a
freaking middle of the week road race that should have been during the weekend to begin with. They
originally had it scheduled for a friday, which I could live with, but this thursday race idea is
absolutely stupid.

If I didn't have a 2 time nat'l champ on my team I would tell USAC to take a flying leap and miss
road nat's this year. This has got to be one the biggest screw the amateurs things I have seen in a
long time.

Can someone please tell me the rationale behind this hair-brained idea?

thanks but no thanks, jason

ps: I agree with EVERYTHING that RVD posted above

 

Jason wrote:
>ps: I agree with EVERYTHING that RVD posted above
>
I don't have a prob with taking vacation to race Nats, but having the TT the day before the RR is
silly. The venue, at first glance, looks pretty good, we will see... Greg

 

"Jason Waddell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Subject: Re: Seven Springs for Senior Nats? From: "Kurgan Gringioni"
> >[email protected] Date: 3/19/03 1:26 PM Central Standard Time Message-id:
> ><[email protected]>
> >
> >
> >"Jason Waddell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> I would also like to know more about the area. What length the climbs in
> >that
> >> area are and how steep.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >You don't need to know what the climbs are like. You are a fat sprinter. You were too much of a
> >coward to pull through in that race last year when Lance asked you to. Stick to field sprints.

> ps: your obsession with fat jokes is a bit tiresome

It was a KKKunich parody (clearly a poor one), not a fat diatribe.

 

[email protected] (Rik Van Diesel) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Bikerecker) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > USCF finally picked a time and place for road nationals. Now, we have less than 3 months to go.
> > Anybody know the area? I expect big hills/mountains, how big? What is late May weather like? Any
> > other info would be appreciated. Greg Miller
>

> for Wednesday and Thursday. Genius scheduling for elite nationals/amateur right???? And for those
> who are doing both the TT and RR, enjoy your evening rest...IF YOU ARE LISTENING IN COLORADO,

> More time from work for most people who already spend all their vacation on LAME NRC stage races
> getting ready for nats, stage races were the amateur are treated like shit. It would be nice this
> two day event could be scheduled to coincide with the weekend. This schedule means a whole week
> off of work...Shit the real "Pros" who race for a living get to have their championship on a
> weekend. Am I the only one who thinks this scheduling SUCKS! Not to mention why can't this be
> schedule at the begining of the year. It is an annual event, and the date and place are scheduled
> in March "hmm when should we plan for this..." Not to mention that the travel to other races
> around this event has been booked by many teams. So now you just have a nice 3 week east coast
> swing..UGH!
>
> How to Schedule Nats by RVD
>
> 1. PICK A WEEKEND DATE in the late spring.
> 2. A location which doesn't suck!
> 3. Doesn't suck means a major AIRPORT NEAR BY! And no extreme in temperatures, and little
> likelyhood of rain.
> 4. Pick a course that doesn't suck.
> 5. Course that doesn't suck means, some hills, and a open road! This isn't crit nats.
> 6. Have the TT two day before the RR, not day before.
> 7. On the same coast as the previous week NRC event, or in a middle of the country location that
> is not Cincinnati, but at least two weeks after the last major stage race. In this case Gila,
> so ok.
>
>
> RVD I had other thoughts but need to get back to work.

POTM

 

[email protected] (Jason Waddell) wrote in message > >How to Schedule Nats by RVD
> >
> >1. PICK A WEEKEND DATE in the late spring.

This is what they did

> >2. A location which doesn't suck!

This is what they did

> >3. Doesn't suck means a major AIRPORT NEAR BY! And no extreme in temperatures, and little
> > likelyhood of rain.

This is what they did

> >4. Pick a course that doesn't suck.

This is what they are doing

> >5. Course that doesn't suck means, some hills, and a open road! This isn't crit nats.

This is what they are doing

> >6. Have the TT two day before the RR, not day before.

Good point.

> >7. On the same coast as the previous week NRC event, or in a middle of the country location that
> > is not Cincinnati, but at least two weeks after the last major stage race. In this case Gila,
> > so ok.

This is what they did

>
> I just saw that they changed the date of nats. WTF are they thinking?

I don't think they did. I believe that one of the online sites posted the information incorrectly
and recently posted a correction.

 

[email protected] (Jason Waddell) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >Subject: Re: Seven Springs for Senior Nats? From: [email protected] (Rik Van Diesel)
> >Date: 3/19/03 4:33 PM Central Standard Time Message-id:
> ><[email protected]>
> >
> >[email protected] (Bikerecker) wrote in message
> >news:<[email protected]>...
> >> USCF finally picked a time and place for road nationals. Now, we have less than 3 months to go.
> >> Anybody know the area? I expect big hills/mountains,
> how
> >> big? What is late May weather like? Any other info would be appreciated. Greg Miller
> >

> >for Wednesday and Thursday. Genius scheduling for elite nationals/amateur right???? And for those
> >who are doing both the TT and RR, enjoy your evening rest...IF YOU ARE LISTENING IN COLORADO,

> >More time from work for most people who already spend all their vacation on LAME NRC stage races
> >getting ready for nats, stage races were the amateur are treated like shit. It would be nice this
> >two day event could be scheduled to coincide with the weekend. This schedule means a whole week
> >off of work...Shit the real "Pros" who race for a living get to have their championship on a
> >weekend. Am I the only one who thinks this scheduling SUCKS! Not to mention why can't this be
> >schedule at the begining of the year. It is an annual event, and the date and place are scheduled
> >in March "hmm when should we plan for this..." Not to mention that the travel to other races
> >around this event has been booked by many teams. So now you just have a nice 3 week east coast
> >swing..UGH!
> >
> >How to Schedule Nats by RVD
> >
> >1. PICK A WEEKEND DATE in the late spring.
> >2. A location which doesn't suck!
> >3. Doesn't suck means a major AIRPORT NEAR BY! And no extreme in temperatures, and little
> > likelyhood of rain.
> >4. Pick a course that doesn't suck.
> >5. Course that doesn't suck means, some hills, and a open road! This isn't crit nats.
> >6. Have the TT two day before the RR, not day before.
> >7. On the same coast as the previous week NRC event, or in a middle of the country location that
> > is not Cincinnati, but at least two weeks after the last major stage race. In this case Gila,
> > so ok.
> >
> >
> >RVD I had other thoughts but need to get back to work.
>
> I just saw that they changed the date of nats. WTF are they thinking? I would bet that over 80% of
> the cat 1's at road nats have jobs and will have to waste valuable vacation time to go to a
> freaking middle of the week road race that should have been during the weekend to begin with. They
> originally had it scheduled for a friday, which I could live with, but this thursday race idea is
> absolutely stupid.
>
> If I didn't have a 2 time nat'l champ on my team I would tell USAC to take a flying leap and miss
> road nat's this year. This has got to be one the biggest screw the amateurs things I have seen in
> a long time.
>
> Can someone please tell me the rationale behind this hair-brained idea?
>
> thanks but no thanks, jason
>
> ps: I agree with EVERYTHING that RVD posted above

I don't think the dates changed; bike.com and cyclingnews.com reported the incorrect dates. The
dates on usacycling.org were always Wed/Thurs. It's about 6hrs from the Sommerville weekend for what
its worth.

JW, I agree with you and RVD. Unfortunately USAC doesn't care about 'true' amateurs anymore. Elite
nats is a very low priority for them. U23 Nats and riders under 25 on D3 teams are where USAC is
looking for developmental riders (and pro team managers are looking in the same place as well).
Which is fine I suppose, but that doesn't mean they have to screw the true amateurs.

I honestly believe that more D3 teams is good for development in the US **IF** (very big IF) the
young riders on these teams get a chance to travel to the bigger US event (USPro week and the longer
stage races). D3 teams are replacing amateur teams of old. There are very very few elite amatuer
teams that have any amount of money to travel to NRC races (recently there has been Lomardis in
NorCal and GoMart-West Virginia, but they're pro now). Most just do local races and local NRC stuff.
Our sport is expensive and time consuming. So D3 teams that are travelling to a variety of NRC races
are serving a good purpose, but only if they are travelling. I would agree that there are a lot of
D3 teams right now that aren't travelling like they should and some D3 teams that should be D2 (but
that has more to do with the economy of the sport imposed on the UCI by the EEC).

Chris

 

Some one wrote this to me personally and I won't state his name since he didn't copy the group.
>I would point out that the riders who win the TT year after year
(Klasna,
>Sbeih, Casey to name the last 3) are PROS. The top 10 finishers in
the TT
>are mostly pro, and most of these guys have an already scheduled
major race
>to go to that same weekend. The only way to improve this for 2004
would be
>to lay out the venue and date in advance of preexisting NRC events,
give it
>it's own weekend. The scheduling WAS done too late, but we don't know all of what may
have
>been happening as far as venue problems, and I believe that the
scheduler
>had compromises to make. I don't think obscenity will improve your
chances
>of winning an argument.

The TT is a definately PRO event, also it usually only requires one rider from your team. So the
impact to the pro teams will be little. The 10 guys in the country who have a chance at winning are
the only ones impacted. Send one guy a ticket to the TT and you are done. My point without
profanity, I run an amateur team, one of the few remaining that actually try to race outside the
region. Nats are our USPRO, and it just bums me out that so little concern is paid to the people who
foot most of the bill at Colorado, and for a race that is very important to the rider participating.
I started to write a bunch of other crap, but I sum it up this way. What else do the people at
USACYCLING have to do than schedule races. How hard is that? This is not an event that should take a
back seat for USCF memembers.

RVD

 

"Chris Daggs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I honestly believe that more D3 teams is good for development in the US **IF** (very big IF) the
> young riders on these teams get a chance to travel to the bigger US event (USPro week and the
> longer stage races). D3 teams are replacing amateur teams of old. There are very very few elite
> amatuer teams that have any amount of money to travel to NRC races (recently there has been
> Lomardis in NorCal and GoMart-West Virginia, but they're pro now). Most just do local races and
> local NRC stuff. Our sport is expensive and time consuming. So D3 teams that are travelling to a
> variety of NRC races are serving a good purpose, but only if they are travelling.

Dearest Force to be Reckoned With -

There are more D3 (16) teams than there are reasonable riders to fill those teams.

Spending $$$ travelling to races (getting one's ass kicked) doesn't do a thing if the base training
isn't put in. Base training is largely a function of desire and time available during the offseason.
A lot of these teams would better develop their riders if they saved the $10,000 D3 license fee,
skipped one or 2 cross-country NRC trips and paid their riders a small stipend so the riders could
quit their jobs and put in their time on the bike.

I know you like to travel around, but spending money to send part-timers on cross-country trips
is a waste.

just my opinion,

K. Gringioni

North American teams from: http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2003/teams2003/teams2003.shtml

K1:USPS

K2:Navigators

K3:7Up/Maxxis Atlas Cold/Italpasta (Canada) Colavita/Bolla Healthnet Jelly Belly Jet Fuel Coffee
(Canada) Jittery Joe's Lemond Fitness/Blender Ofoto/Lombardi Prime Alliance Saturn Schroeder Iron
Sierra Nevada Sportsbook.com Webcor West Virginia Cycling Team

 

"Rik Van Diesel" <metalkpre[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The TT is a definately PRO event, also it usually only requires one rider from your team. So the
> impact to the pro teams will be little. The 10 guys in the country who have a chance at winning
> are the only ones impacted. Send one guy a ticket to the TT and you are done. My point without
> profanity, I run an amateur team, one of the few remaining that actually try to race outside the
> region. Nats are our USPRO, and it just bums me out that so little concern is paid to the people
> who foot most of the bill at Colorado, and for a race that is very important to the rider
> participating. I started to write a bunch of other crap, but I sum it up this way. What else do
> the people at USACYCLING have to do than schedule races. How hard is that? This is not an event
> that should take a back seat for USCF memembers.
>
> RVD

They are putting the effort into MASTERS nats. It is the future of the sport, you know.

 

in article [email protected], Rik Van Diesel at
[email protected] wrote on 3/20/03 2:23 PM:

> What else do the people at USACYCLING have to do than schedule races.

Actually, Eric Moore and Matt Murphy are responsible for:

Scheduling ALL the national championships: masters, juniors, 'cross, track, etc. Scheduling the NRC
for road Scheduling the NRC for MTB Scheduling the NRC for 'cross Scheduling and processing permits
for all UCI events Processing pro team applications for the UCI (which this year was a lot, and is a
challenging process)

That's off the top of my head.

Take a look at the national championships schedule alone for all these disciplines. Add to that that
these guys actually GO to all these races.

These guys, in my opinion, have been working hard to try to improve things under their watch. Are
they done? No. Are they making progress? Yes.

You try and make this many people happy, and see what kind of job you do.

It's the national championships, for god's sake. If you can't take a few days off from work to go to
nationals, then you're obviously not serious about the race. This isn't a grassroots event, let's
make it easy for everyone to go. It's nationals.

Adam

 

In article <BA9F8B43.4389%[email protected]>, Adam Hodges Myerson
<[email protected]> wrote:

> in article [email protected], Rik Van Diesel at
> [email protected] wrote on 3/20/03 2:23 PM:
>
> > What else do the people at USACYCLING have to do than schedule races.
>
> Actually, Eric Moore and Matt Murphy are responsible for:
>
> Scheduling ALL the national championships: masters, juniors, 'cross, track, etc. Scheduling the
> NRC for road Scheduling the NRC for MTB Scheduling the NRC for 'cross Scheduling and processing
> permits for all UCI events Processing pro team applications for the UCI (which this year was a
> lot, and is a challenging process)
>

In addition Matt Murphy is working to overhaul the long ignored officials program by updating the
various officials manuals, updating the officials test, processing all new officials license
applications. Matt also is acting in the role of Tech director ( ie the person who answers all the
rule questions from riders and officials).

Casey

 

One of the main issues is finding a promoter who is willing to host Elite Nationals. For those of
you who do not know, the Nationals are hosted by local clubs/promoters/organizations with support
from USAC in the form of timing, staging, officials, etc. The reason that Elites were scheduled so
late is that there has to be someone who WANTS to do the event, and who has the organization and
backing to pull it off. This was not the case with Elites until the last month or so. Actually the
USAC events staff should be credited with finding someone who could do it...and that is a much
tougher job than you might think.

As far as the TT and RR being back to back. No, it is not ideal. But sometimes concessions have to
be made for local permits, etc. Would you rather not have a race at all? It is very easy to say "why
can't they do this or that?" The answer is simple...sometimes there is not a choice.

And you wonder why promoters don't want to hold Elites? Just look at the nasty post that started
this tirade as a good example...

And take it from someone who has worked at over 15 Nationals during the last 4 years, if you think
you can do it better please call 719-866-4581 and ask for a bid package.

Chuck Hodge

 

"Charles Hodge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... <snip>
> And you wonder why promoters don't want to hold Elites? Just look at the nasty post that started
> this tirade as a good example...

<snip>

The trouble with finding promoters/venues for nationals is that the USCF keeps all of the entry
fees. Even if the promoter can find good corporate sponsorship to offset the staggering cost of the
event, they are unlikely to profit. Allowing the promoter to profit by sharing entry fees would go a
long way toward better events.
--
David Blackburn