shady trek dealings

[Ryan Fisher]

just thought id share my recent experiences with Trek with everyone in case you were thinking about
purchasing one of their carbon frames.

It seems that even if you have been a trek dealer for 6 years, and buy their top end bike (5900),
which supposedly has a lifetime warranty, and never crash the bike, they will still not warranty the
frame if it develops a crack. apparently the drive side chainstay, approx 4" from the BB, is "not a
high stress part of the frame." so if it cracks there, chances are you either "stepped on the bike,"
or "picked up a stick or something on a ride which cracked the frame." it seems that in the course
of normal riding a magical stick can be unnoticably kicked up from the road with enough force to
snap a chainstay, while somehow not damaging the wheels, or getting caught up in the drivetrain.

Even though they wont warranty the frame, the nice folks at trek will be happy to charge you
to repair it (plus shipping no less) so you can be back on the road and riding in only 4-6
weeks. awesome.

I am now riding a Specialized frame which i have been more than pleased with thus far, and from
recent experiences through the shop, specialized will indeed warranty a cracked driveside chainstay,
and have a frame for you within a week. word.

In conclusion if anyone wants to buy a newly repaired trek 5900 frame/fork (56 cm) in 4-6 weeks,
drop me a line or look for it on ebay because i will never ride (or sell) another one of their bikes
again. thank you and have a nice day.

 

[Psycholist]

Hmmm. crossposting.

Well, I've had a couple of wonderful experiences with Trek's warranty service. Read all about it
under this guy's crosspost to rec.bicycles.racing.

Bob C.

"Ryan Fisher" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> just thought id share my recent experiences with Trek with everyone in
case
> you were thinking about purchasing one of their carbon frames.
>
> It seems that even if you have been a trek dealer for 6 years, and buy
their
> top end bike (5900), which supposedly has a lifetime warranty, and never crash the bike, they will
> still not warranty the frame if it develops a crack. apparently the drive side chainstay, approx
> 4" from the BB, is "not
a
> high stress part of the frame." so if it cracks there, chances are you either "stepped on the
> bike," or "picked up a stick or something on a ride which cracked the frame." it seems that in the
> course of normal riding a magical stick can be unnoticably kicked up from the road with enough
> force to snap a chainstay, while somehow not damaging the wheels, or getting caught up in the
> drivetrain.
>
> Even though they wont warranty the frame, the nice folks at trek will be happy to charge you to
> repair it (plus shipping no less) so you can be
back
> on the road and riding in only 4-6 weeks. awesome.
>
> I am now riding a Specialized frame which i have been more than pleased
with
> thus far, and from recent experiences through the shop, specialized will indeed warranty a cracked
> driveside chainstay, and have a frame for you within a week. word.
>
> In conclusion if anyone wants to buy a newly repaired trek 5900 frame/fork (56 cm) in 4-6 weeks,
> drop me a line or look for it on ebay because i will never ride (or sell) another one of their
> bikes again. thank you and have
a
> nice day.

 

[S. Anderson]

"Ryan Fisher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> just thought id share my recent experiences with Trek with everyone in
case
> you were thinking about purchasing one of their carbon frames.

<<snip...>>

Don't expect better luck with your Specialized, durability-wise. I'd have to say that Trek was one
of the better companies we dealt with for warranty. I'm not sure why your experience was so bad. In
general, I'm surprised at the number of failures I hear about with CF frames and people's acceptance
of this. It's great that Trek warranties their frames so well (usually..maybe not in this case...),
but isn't it shocking to anyone that $5k bikes need to be warrantied so often? Is this just
considered the price of having a really nice CF frame? I've serviced thousands of bikes and never
seen the failure rate as high as with CF frames. Has this been anyone else's experience? Or am I
just biased in my "statistical analysis"?

Cheers,

Scott..

 

[Psycholist]

"S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ryan Fisher" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:c0tq7e$gji$1@news-
> int2.gatech.edu...
> > just thought id share my recent experiences with Trek with everyone in
> case
> > you were thinking about purchasing one of their carbon frames.
>
> <<snip...>>
>
> Don't expect better luck with your Specialized, durability-wise. I'd have to say that Trek was one
> of the better companies we dealt with for
warranty.
> I'm not sure why your experience was so bad. In general, I'm surprised at the number of failures I
> hear about with CF frames and people's acceptance of this. It's great that Trek warranties their
> frames so well (usually..maybe not in this case...), but isn't it shocking to anyone that $5k
> bikes need to be warrantied so often? Is this just considered the
price
> of having a really nice CF frame? I've serviced thousands of bikes and never seen the failure rate
> as high as with CF frames. Has this been
anyone
> else's experience? Or am I just biased in my "statistical analysis"?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Scott..

I'll put it this way ... were it not for Trek's superior handling of my warranty issues, I certainly
WOULDN'T be riding a Trek anymore. (Truth be known, I bought a K2 Mod5 frame on a closeout several
months back. I hung a hodgepodge of old parts on it and I just plain love that bike. The ride and
handling are much more enjoyable to me than the Trek. Not as light, but lots of fun to ride. The
Trek will remain my "event" bike. The K2 is what I'll ride all the rest of the time.)

Bob C.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"S. Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ryan Fisher" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:c0tq7e$gji$1@news-
> int2.gatech.edu...
> > just thought id share my recent experiences with Trek with everyone in
> case
> > you were thinking about purchasing one of their carbon frames.
>
> <<snip...>>
>
> Don't expect better luck with your Specialized, durability-wise. I'd have to say that Trek was one
> of the better companies we dealt with for
warranty.
> I'm not sure why your experience was so bad. In general, I'm surprised at the number of failures I
> hear about with CF frames and people's acceptance of this. It's great that Trek warranties their
> frames so well (usually..maybe not in this case...), but isn't it shocking to anyone that $5k
> bikes need to be warrantied so often? Is this just considered the
price
> of having a really nice CF frame? I've serviced thousands of bikes and never seen the failure rate
> as high as with CF frames. Has this been
anyone
> else's experience? Or am I just biased in my "statistical analysis"?

My experience with carbon fiber bikes (NOT Trek) has not been very good. I've also seen a number of
the older Trek Aluminum bikes fail at the glue joints so often that even the local Trek dealer
stopped riding them. You'll note that Trek no longer makes that sort of construction.

The Trek carbon bikes have given problems almost immediately. For those who don't remember the 5000
- the original was a bike made by someone else that looked very much like the present model but was
a one piece layup. They failed at the front derailleur hanger with perfect regularity. The later
models started out with really flexy forks and again cracking down at the front derailleur.

The original posting in the string that said that Trek wasn't honoring their warranties if the
damaged looked like it was caused by customer carelessness is a demonstration that the present
frames are failing with such speed that they can't keep ahead of the failures and so they're
discounting any failures they can.

I'm a big guy and I have a hard time convincing myself that a carbon FORK is safe. I'm sure as hell
not going to trust my life to a frame that might fail beneath me on a really fast descent.

So most of my bikes are steel but my Eddy Merkx EX ti bike is really nice.

If you absolutely must have a light bike - go aluminum and EXPECT it to start failing after a
couple of years.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> If you absolutely must have a light bike - go aluminum and EXPECT it to start failing after a
> couple of years.

Why is that? I have a Klein Adept Pro aluminum frame with a lifetime guarantee on it. Would Klein
guarantee an aluminum frame if they expected everyone to become a warranty within a few years??

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Rivermist]

I can vouch for Specialized. They replaced the frame when my chainstay cracked. It took about 5
weeks though, which sucked.

"Ryan Fisher" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> just thought id share my recent experiences with Trek with everyone in
case
> you were thinking about purchasing one of their carbon frames.
>
> It seems that even if you have been a trek dealer for 6 years, and buy
their
> top end bike (5900), which supposedly has a lifetime warranty, and never crash the bike, they will
> still not warranty the frame if it develops a crack. apparently the drive side chainstay, approx
> 4" from the BB, is "not
a
> high stress part of the frame." so if it cracks there, chances are you either "stepped on the
> bike," or "picked up a stick or something on a ride which cracked the frame." it seems that in the
> course of normal riding a magical stick can be unnoticably kicked up from the road with enough
> force to snap a chainstay, while somehow not damaging the wheels, or getting caught up in the
> drivetrain.
>
> Even though they wont warranty the frame, the nice folks at trek will be happy to charge you to
> repair it (plus shipping no less) so you can be
back
> on the road and riding in only 4-6 weeks. awesome.
>
> I am now riding a Specialized frame which i have been more than pleased
with
> thus far, and from recent experiences through the shop, specialized will indeed warranty a cracked
> driveside chainstay, and have a frame for you within a week. word.
>
> In conclusion if anyone wants to buy a newly repaired trek 5900 frame/fork (56 cm) in 4-6 weeks,
> drop me a line or look for it on ebay because i will never ride (or sell) another one of their
> bikes again. thank you and have
a
> nice day.

 

[Rocketman]

"Ryan Fisher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> just thought id share my recent experiences with Trek with everyone in
case
> you were thinking about purchasing one of their carbon frames.
>
> It seems that even if you have been a trek dealer for 6 years, and buy
their
> top end bike (5900), which supposedly has a lifetime warranty, and never crash the bike, they will
> still not warranty the frame if it develops a crack. apparently the drive side chainstay, approx
> 4" from the BB, is "not
a
> high stress part of the frame." so if it cracks there, chances are you either "stepped on the
> bike," or "picked up a stick or something on a ride which cracked the frame." it seems that in the
> course of normal riding a magical stick can be unnoticably kicked up from the road with enough
> force to snap a chainstay, while somehow not damaging the wheels, or getting caught up in the
> drivetrain.
>
> Even though they wont warranty the frame, the nice folks at trek will be happy to charge you to
> repair it (plus shipping no less) so you can be
back
> on the road and riding in only 4-6 weeks. awesome.
>
> I am now riding a Specialized frame which i have been more than pleased
with
> thus far, and from recent experiences through the shop, specialized will indeed warranty a cracked
> driveside chainstay, and have a frame for you within a week. word.
>
> In conclusion if anyone wants to buy a newly repaired trek 5900 frame/fork (56 cm) in 4-6 weeks,
> drop me a line or look for it on ebay because i will never ride (or sell) another one of their
> bikes again. thank you and have
a
> nice day.

If the frame shows no evidence of a crash, and it failed, they should have warrantied it to the
original owner. Period. Otherwise the warranty is meaningless. Is there more that you're not
telling us?

Have you talked with management at Trek about this? Have you sent them a letter of complaint,
addressed to the CEO and cc'd to the P.R. department? Make sure to attach a printout of your Usenet
postings on this topic. If you're a Trek dealer, as you say, then how can you now sell Trek bikes in
good conscience?

Just some thoughts.

R

 

[S O R N I]

Rocketman wrote:
> "Ryan Fisher" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:c0tq7e$gji$1@news-
> int2.gatech.edu...
>> just thought id share my recent experiences with Trek with everyone in case you were thinking
>> about purchasing one of their carbon frames.
>>
>> It seems that even if you have been a trek dealer for 6 years, and buy their top end bike (5900),
>> which supposedly has a lifetime warranty, and never crash the bike, they will still not warranty
>> the frame if it develops a crack. apparently the drive side chainstay, approx 4" from the BB, is
>> "not a high stress part of the frame." so if it cracks there, chances are you either "stepped on
>> the bike," or "picked up a stick or something on a ride which cracked the frame." it seems that
>> in the course of normal riding a magical stick can be unnoticably kicked up from the road with
>> enough force to snap a chainstay, while somehow not damaging the wheels, or getting caught up in
>> the drivetrain.
>>
>> Even though they wont warranty the frame, the nice folks at trek will be happy to charge you to
>> repair it (plus shipping no less) so you can be back on the road and riding in only 4-6 weeks.
>> awesome.
>>
>> I am now riding a Specialized frame which i have been more than pleased with thus far, and from
>> recent experiences through the shop, specialized will indeed warranty a cracked driveside
>> chainstay, and have a frame for you within a week. word.
>>
>> In conclusion if anyone wants to buy a newly repaired trek 5900 frame/fork (56 cm) in 4-6 weeks,
>> drop me a line or look for it on ebay because i will never ride (or sell) another one of their
>> bikes again. thank you and have a nice day.
>
> If the frame shows no evidence of a crash, and it failed, they should have warrantied it to the
> original owner. Period. Otherwise the warranty is meaningless. Is there more that you're not
> telling us?
>
> Have you talked with management at Trek about this? Have you sent them a letter of complaint,
> addressed to the CEO and cc'd to the P.R. department? Make sure to attach a printout of your
> Usenet postings on this topic. If you're a Trek dealer, as you say, then how can you now sell Trek
> bikes in good conscience?

Re-read his last paragraph.

Bill "are you Barry Sanders or not, BTW?" S.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsk]

> It seems that even if you have been a trek dealer for 6 years, and buy
their
> top end bike (5900), which supposedly has a lifetime warranty, and never crash the bike, they will
> still not warranty the frame if it develops a crack. apparently the drive side chainstay, approx
> 4" from the BB, is "not
a
> high stress part of the frame." so if it cracks there, chances are you either "stepped on the
> bike," or "picked up a stick or something on a ride which cracked the frame."

That's normally the second part of the conversation, which comes after TREK has inspected the
particular damaged piece and found that the manner in which the carbon has broken indicates an
impact that came from the outside. The broken strands tell a story.

It seems highly unlikely that TREK (or any other manufacturer) would automatically dismiss a
warranty claim without inspection.

For what it's worth, we've seen one broken chainstay in the area you describe, and it was not a JRA
(as in Just Riding Along and it broke). The owner had to go back in his memory a bit, but eventually
remembered there had been a rather significant event there. It helped that he had previously asked
us, when it had happened (a crash), if it might have caused damage. We sorta reminded him of the
earlier conversation...

As for what it would take to crack a chainstay, I don't know about sticks, but one of our employees
did pick up a piece of scrap insulating wire that the local utility company had left lying on the
road, and it caused his steel fork to fold in half. It wasn't pretty (both the fork and his face).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[Mike Latondress]

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> For what it's worth, we've seen one broken chainstay in the area you describe, and it was not a
> JRA (as in Just Riding Along and it broke).

I had forgotten about that...did Lance get his bike repaired under warranty?

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> "Ryan Fisher" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:c0tq7e$gji$1@news-
> int2.gatech.edu...
> > just thought id share my recent experiences with Trek with everyone in
> case
> > you were thinking about purchasing one of their carbon frames.
>
> <<snip...>>
>
> Don't expect better luck with your Specialized, durability-wise. I'd have to say that Trek was one
> of the better companies we dealt with for warranty. I'm not sure why your experience was so bad.
> In general, I'm surprised at the number of failures I hear about with CF frames and people's
> acceptance of this. It's great that Trek warranties their frames so well (usually..maybe not in
> this case...), but isn't it shocking to anyone that $5k bikes need to be warrantied so often? Is
> this just considered the price of having a really nice CF frame? I've serviced thousands of bikes
> and never seen the failure rate as high as with CF frames. Has this been anyone else's experience?
> Or am I just biased in my "statistical analysis"?

Possibly, but also consider that the purpose of those materials is to keep everything as light as
possible, so maybe the frames have very little margin for error in manufacturing tolerances.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsk]

> > For what it's worth, we've seen one broken chainstay in the area you describe, and it was not a
> > JRA (as in Just Riding Along and it broke).
>
> I had forgotten about that...did Lance get his bike repaired under warranty?

700 watts going through the remaining chainstay, which held up? That bike's probably in a museum! If
they were actually going to repair it (and I knew about it ahead of time), I'd offer to buy the
frame (or complete bike) at normal retail from them. If that bike hadn't survived, Lance might not
have won his 5th TDF last year.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Mike Latondresse" <mikelat@no_spamshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > For what it's worth, we've seen one broken chainstay in the area you describe, and it was not a
> > JRA (as in Just Riding Along and it broke).
>
> I had forgotten about that...did Lance get his bike repaired under warranty?

 

[Chris Neary]

>My experience with carbon fiber bikes (NOT Trek) has not been very good. I've also seen a number of
>the older Trek Aluminum bikes fail at the glue joints so often that even the local Trek dealer
>stopped riding them. You'll note that Trek no longer makes that sort of construction.

At this time Trek was making these bikes, welded aluminum frames were rare. Once the industry worked
out the kinks with production welding of bike frames, it became more attractive since lugs (which
add weight and limit geometry choices) were no longer necessary.

No personal knowledge, but I expect any issues with bonding quality were very much secondary in the
decision. I still have a bonded aluminum Trek mountain bike which is going strong.

>The Trek carbon bikes have given problems almost immediately. For those who don't remember the 5000
>- the original was a bike made by someone else that looked very much like the present model but was
>a one piece layup.

Actually two pieces, IIRC. Two halves screwed together. The original 5000 barely made it to market
before being withdrawn.

>I'm a big guy and I have a hard time convincing myself that a carbon FORK is safe. I'm sure as hell
>not going to trust my life to a frame that might fail beneath me on a really fast descent.

They're safe.

Hell, tandems are being made from all the same materials as singles and tandems see much much higher
loads than singles. I've seen only a few reports of minor frame problems with steel tandems. I can't
think of any reports of problems with other materials on tandems.

>So most of my bikes are steel but my Eddy Merkx EX ti bike is really nice.
>
>If you absolutely must have a light bike - go aluminum and EXPECT it to start failing after a
>couple of years.

Any of your aluminum bikes failed yet, Tom?

Chris Neary [email protected]

 

[Peter]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> I'm sure as hell not going to trust my life to a frame that might fail beneath me on a really
> fast descent.

Sorry to hear you've given up bicycling. AFAIK, that's the only practical way to avoid trusting a
frame that might possibly fail on a descent.

I'll continue to use my aluminum bike on most rides. I could take my CrMo steel-framed folder, but
it's already had one chainstay failure. Or I could ride my older hi-tensile steel-framed tandem, but
I still have some scars from when the steerer tube came apart.

Please let us know when you discover the fail-safe frame material.