Sharon : The Temple Mount

[FredC]

The Bible is what it purports to be or it is not. If it's not then ignore it. If it is then you must examine what it says and the promises that it gives. Abraham, Moses, Joshua all receive territorial imperitives and specific instructions on the ethnic cleansing of that territory which the Hebrews did not follow and hence their troubles today. If you want to understand what's happening today, then I suggest you study the Book of Revelations. Or not, one of the promises of the Bible was free choice.

'free choice' yep. I'm not going to read it. Both Lim and I were born Roman Catholics, and we were subjected to the bible and god rammed down our throats on a daily basis. I cannot speak for Lim, but I abandoned the lot at the age of 15. Learn't good principles for life at school, and still have them. Just live by the 10 commandments. That's sufficient and always will be. That's what I like about the Qoran.

 

[davidmc]

Bush literally speaks their language. It's the good ol' boy style of speaking you hear down at the local diner where more people eat than at Chez Maurice.

What language is that It is'nt english, thats for sure.

Trekker2017]Bush did exactly what he needed to do to get re-elected -- he played up to the crumbling middle class. The problem with the liberal elitists is that you only maintain your elite status by keeping your numbers small. You can't win an election with small numbers. By collapsing the middle class and not absorbing it, the left has driven them into the arms of the populist right and they tend to be very conservative.

Saying they would expand the tax cut to more middle & lower class families as opposed to extending or making permanent the tax cut to the upper 5% is a real jab at the middle class. Riiiight For some reason i get the nagging feeling that your a drone of the republican party, unable to think for yourself consequently; gobbling up all of their rhetoric w/ a zeal not unlike their extreme right-wing, god-loving, gay-hating, gun loving base.

 

[Weisse Luft]

'free choice' yep. I'm not going to read it. Both Lim and I were born Roman Catholics, and we were subjected to the bible and god rammed down our throats on a daily basis. I cannot speak for Lim, but I abandoned the lot at the age of 15. Learn't good principles for life at school, and still have them. Just live by the 10 commandments. That's sufficient and always will be. That's what I like about the Qoran.

Like Islam is an open belief system. NO way. If Catholicism was anything like Islam, you would have been put to death for apostay the minute you gave up on the faith. And if you think the Quran is any easier, apostay is clearly mentioned with one distinct punishment. Death.

 

[FredC]

Crushing tomatoes, adding a pinch of salt & some sugar; putting the resulting amalgam in a glass jar pay's how much

Does that mean that Mrs Kerry is responsible for growing unemployment? Well over there in the USA there's plenty more global business relocation to come. Fasten your safety belts for a bumpy ride. Stuff in tins? that'll be the end of the strip mills in Pittsburgh, the list is endless. It pays to be nice to other countries.

 

[FredC]

Like Islam is an open belief system. NO way. If Catholicism was anything like Islam, you would have been put to death for apostay the minute you gave up on the faith. And if you think the Quran is any easier, apostay is clearly mentioned with one distinct punishment. Death.

Oh yeh, like you don't have capital punshment. Why didn't you turn Pro on the bike when you were younger? Was it the 5 hours a day training? or not enough money races in the states?

 

[limerickman]

I just want to give Limerickman a pat on the back. I don't agree with him a lot of the time, but he always posts something that we can get our teeth into or into each other.

I try not to personalise my replies to people, although with some people I have to because it's the only level that they understand.

Treker - you obviously do read your Bible and that's your perogative.
I hear what you have been saying and I respect your views, although I have to say that I still think that people can extract all sorts of meanings from literally
every Biblical sentance.

As for me, I was educated by the Jesuits and am Roman Catholic.
We did some Bible studies but not to any great extent, I have to admit.

 

[limerickman]

Like Islam is an open belief system. NO way. If Catholicism was anything like Islam, you would have been put to death for apostay the minute you gave up on the faith. And if you think the Quran is any easier, apostay is clearly mentioned with one distinct punishment. Death.

It's your lot that advocate an "eye for an eye", ain't it ?

I find it funny, when I read your views when you criticise Islam or Muslims.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world - can't be all bad, huh ?
Unlike Islam, the number of Jews is diminishing, today.

When you refer to Catholicism, I am presuming that you are referring to Roman Catholicism ?

 

[limerickman]

As far as Arafat is concerned. The ecumenical thing to do would be to bury him on the Temple Mount. But since the Israelies are anything but ecumenical, I seriously doubt that will happen. One of the racial traits that reoccurs time and time again in the Old Testament is the call for Jews to be xenophobic. Their troubles and punishments have all stemmed from their failure to become so. That they are building a wall is hardly surprising based on this particular racial trait. I can foresee a day when they have completely walled themselves in and then tear down the Churches and Mosques on Temple Mount and reconstruct a new Temple. They are already looking for the red heifer to sacrifice on the new altar.

Ecumenism.
That word would not be tolerated by the Jews.
They believe that they're the Chosen Race - to the exclusion of everyone else.
Thus, we are all referred to as Gentiles, by them.

They're entitled to their view of course.
I would very much doubt that the RCC would have any truck with the Jews.
After all, the charge of Deicide still stands against them.

If they want to build a wall around themselves, so be it.
The only difficulty I have with their building a wall is that it's on Palestinian land.

 

[Trekker2017]

What language is that It is'nt english, thats for sure. Saying they would expand the tax cut to more middle & lower class families as opposed to extending or making permanent the tax cut to the upper 5% is a real jab at the middle class. Riiiight For some reason i get the nagging feeling that your a drone of the republican party, unable to think for yourself consequently; gobbling up all of their rhetoric w/ a zeal not unlike their extreme right-wing, god-loving, gay-hating, gun loving base.

Hate to disappoint you, but I voted for Nader.

 

[Bikerman2004]

I would very much doubt that the RCC would have any truck with the Jews.
After all, the charge of Deicide still stands against them.

Is this your opinion or the Catholic Church's? The deicide charge was rejected with the Vatican II accord.

 

[FredC]

Boy, I touched a nerve with you, didn't I. Can't say that it matters to me one way or the other. If my beliefs make you squirm, that's your problem, not mine.

As far as Arafat is concerned. The ecumenical thing to do would be to bury him on the Temple Mount. But since the Israelies are anything but ecumenical, I seriously doubt that will happen. One of the racial traits that reoccurs time and time again in the Old Testament is the call for Jews to be xenophobic. Their troubles and punishments have all stemmed from their failure to become so. That they are building a wall is hardly surprising based on this particular racial trait. I can foresee a day when they have completely walled themselves in and then tear down the Churches and Mosques on Temple Mount and reconstruct a new Temple. They are already looking for the red heifer to sacrifice on the new altar.

No nerves touched, squirming because you spout the rhetoric of a covered wagon carpetbagger putting the fears upon the innocents, and calling the saloon owner, his customers, and his girls, food for the devil.
The Jews are still xenophobic in whichever land they live in, and understandably so considering their history, and I don't give a toss about your references to the book of fairy stories. The wall they are building encompasses land held illegally occupied and stolen from the rightful deedholders. They have even stolen olive trees and transplanted them. The Berlin wall was built and later demolished. Hopefully this one might not be completed. Now then, leave the water pipe alone. Are you telling me that Merryka would let them pull down Evangelism in Jerusalayim. Red Heifer's difficult on for me. I only fresians. Not much lush grazing out there. Basically we get back to the water to sustain life. The river Jordan. I think the biggest desalination plant is in Dubai, but they don't have the population of Israel. Strap up the horses Mister Spock.

 

[FredC]

I would very much doubt that the RCC would have any truck with the Jews.
After all, the charge of Deicide still stands against them.

Is this your opinion or the Catholic Church's? The deicide charge was rejected with the Vatican II accord.

Of course, I can only, from my experience of having RCC doctrine rammed down my throat for years at school and church comment on this, I never heard a criticism of any other faith being castigated in any way whatsoever, I think that was a healthy way of adhesion for the local people who worked together and played together in an industrial society, and it proved to be so, and still is. Some silly sod had a go at me for calling jews 'Yids'. Well I've got news for you. The Yiddish speakers and their descendents live trouble free lives since they started to live in North Manchester some 120 years ago.

 

[FredC]

It's your lot that advocate an "eye for an eye", ain't it ?

I find it funny, when I read your views when you criticise Islam or Muslims.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world - can't be all bad, huh ?
Unlike Islam, the number of Jews is diminishing, today.

When you refer to Catholicism, I am presuming that you are referring to Roman Catholicism ?

I seriously thought about taking up the Jewish faith, didn't last long though.
No rump steak, pork chops, bacon ribs and cabbage, rabbit stew, and shellfish. But you can have a drink..
I seriously thought about becoming a Moslem, apart from the fact that you have to carry a compass and pray 5 times a day. It was the no alcohol rule that blew that one.
So here we are enjoying food that never poisoned people.

 

[limerickman]

I would very much doubt that the RCC would have any truck with the Jews.
After all, the charge of Deicide still stands against them.

Is this your opinion or the Catholic Church's? The deicide charge was rejected with the Vatican II accord.

If the charge of Deicide has been withdrawn at Vatican II - how come I attended Mass which included prayers for the Perfidious Jew and his misguided ways ?
We also had to pray for the conversion of the Soviet Union.

Vatican II in fact commenced before I was born - Vatican II amended a lot of things and removed a lot of things (such as the Tridentine Mass - or Latin Mass).

 

[Saucy]

It's called the Bible.

Yiiikes.

Isn't it amazing that Muslims are labelled as the religious fanatics yet Christians and Jews spew their fundamentalism without impunity?

 

[davidmc]

Hate to disappoint you, but I voted for Nader.

I endorsed him in the past but, the truth be told, republicans were ecstatic that he was running again, they even gave him $. I'm sure u r aware of this I agree w/ what he say's but i also wanted bush & co. out of office. My state was too close to call so i had to vote for Kerry. I wanted Shrub/uncle **** out of office because they have treated Wash., D.C. as their personal candy store-Them & thier buisiness buddies/lobbyist's not to mention over 1000 casualties in his unjustified/ill-planned war. I think we need to post the republican service record again. Oh, I found it, here it is : McCain

 

[davidmc]

Yiiikes.

Isn't it amazing that Muslims are labelled as the religious fanatics yet Christians and Jews spew their fundamentalism without impunity?

Was'nt it Pat Robertson who said "Athiest's can't be trusted" I don't know who's worse, out of the lot.

 

[davidmc]

Some of my best friends are atheists. But we are quickly moving to a time when god or spirituality is seen as essential to a person's character.

This was predicted by many trend watchers. I heard something about the 'new spirituality' about 8 years ago...who knew that it would take such a dogmatic form.

So your basing your life on trends The Hollywood diet was a trend. I base my life on fact's. The fact's are- the majority of world suffering can be directly attributed to the "My god's better than your god" mentality. Here's a couple of extremely good examples-Israel/Palestine(Arab world) & n Ireland(catholic)/england(protestant)It is an insult to the intelligence of man. Any schoolchild can see the correlation, hell any child can see the correlation.

 

[pomod]

Some of my best friends are atheists. But we are quickly moving to a time when god or spirituality is seen as essential to a person's character.

I think that this, like so much surrounding religion is relative and subjective. davidmc's is on point here and a majority of history's bloodshed has originated in squabbling over religion or the interpretation of a scripture and/or its adaptation for political ends because religious institutions are inherently political ones. People that hold up the bible or koran as some static rule of law carried forward through history and is therefore superior or a divine justification for a type of behavior overlook the fact that those same texts have evolved over thousands of years, through human intervention, through translations, interpretations, re-interpretations, edits and augmentations. It's short sighted to think that any one of these filters was not influenced by the existing culture and geo-politics of their time. When Muslims kill Jews or Christians kill Muslims it is a failure to acknowledge that those three share the same origin anyway – Ironically, proving my point. Moreover, there are a lot more than simply three world-views on this planet -- Buddhism, Hinduism, for example, or any of other belief systems for that matter, and all have merit, all are equally valid. Religion, I think serves a purpose; I think that most people's brains are hardwired to believe in something but, whatever that something is, it will always be subjective and relative to ones own cultural context. You definitely can't bomb people into changing sides.

Anyway, there is my religious 2 cents. (Not welcome I’m sure because “religious posts aren’t”)

As far as where Arafat gets planted. Israel could certainly reclaim a bit of moral high ground if they extended an olive leaf and said "Sure. as a token of good will, you can bury him anywhere he wanted to be." Jerusalem, the temple mount. It won't really matter, will it.

 

[limerickman]

Church and State - should not be mixed up.
A person should be able to hold a personal religious belief.
However, the tenets of that belief ought not to be imposed in a secular way and on society in general.

I wouldn't wish the tenets of the Roman Catholic Church to be imposed on other people, through politics.

It happens that Bush's policy on abortion and gay marriage happens - and happens is the most important word in this entire message - to coincide with the Roman Catholic Church doctrine.
However, Bush's Christian values which he espouses, is hypocrisy in my view.
His Christian values appear to be departmentalised : "I oppose abortion but I don't mind murdering thosands of Afghans or Iraqi's".

Bush is a ****ing hypocrit.