D
- Status
G
Gerrit Stolte
Guest
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:02:32 GMT, "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote:
>because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
looks as though sherwin is clueless.
>because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
looks as though sherwin is clueless.
W
Warren
Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Gerrit Stolte
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:02:32 GMT, "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
>
> looks as though sherwin is clueless.
He referred to Ullrich's deep section rims as not being good for descending, which doesn't make sens
to me because they would likely be faster than normal rims.
-WG
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:02:32 GMT, "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
>
> looks as though sherwin is clueless.
He referred to Ullrich's deep section rims as not being good for descending, which doesn't make sens
to me because they would likely be faster than normal rims.
-WG
D
Drew Cutter
Guest
It was the wheels he used , didn't happen this time. I would like to know how much flexibility is
allow in a wheel for good descents.
allow in a wheel for good descents.
S
Steve Blankensh
Guest
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:210720030830534835%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Gerrit Stolte
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:02:32 GMT, "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
> >
> > looks as though sherwin is clueless.
>
> He referred to Ullrich's deep section rims as not being good for descending, which doesn't make
> sens to me because they would likely be faster than normal rims.
>
> -WG
Depends - they catch a lot of side winds, which can make control on a descent dicey at best. Under
ideal conditions, yes they're faster, but if you have to brake to stay on the road the aero benefits
aren't much use. For example, a friend recently demoed some carbon Zipp 440's in a hilly road race.
They're very light and aerodynamically fast, but it was a windy day and the course had a
fairly-straight, 5km, 85kph descent close to the finish. He got gapped from the break on what should
have been an easy descent and said it was all he could do to stay on the road. Needless to say he
decided not to buy them...
> In article <[email protected]>, Gerrit Stolte
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:02:32 GMT, "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
> >
> > looks as though sherwin is clueless.
>
> He referred to Ullrich's deep section rims as not being good for descending, which doesn't make
> sens to me because they would likely be faster than normal rims.
>
> -WG
Depends - they catch a lot of side winds, which can make control on a descent dicey at best. Under
ideal conditions, yes they're faster, but if you have to brake to stay on the road the aero benefits
aren't much use. For example, a friend recently demoed some carbon Zipp 440's in a hilly road race.
They're very light and aerodynamically fast, but it was a windy day and the course had a
fairly-straight, 5km, 85kph descent close to the finish. He got gapped from the break on what should
have been an easy descent and said it was all he could do to stay on the road. Needless to say he
decided not to buy them...
M
Mike S.
Guest
> > >because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
> >
> > looks as though sherwin is clueless.
>
> He referred to Ullrich's deep section rims as not being good for descending, which doesn't make
> sens to me because they would likely be faster than normal rims.
>
> -WG
Historically, those ADA/Lightweights haven't been the easiest things to control on a downhill. Not
that I've ridden one, just repeating what I've heard.
Mike
> >
> > looks as though sherwin is clueless.
>
> He referred to Ullrich's deep section rims as not being good for descending, which doesn't make
> sens to me because they would likely be faster than normal rims.
>
> -WG
Historically, those ADA/Lightweights haven't been the easiest things to control on a downhill. Not
that I've ridden one, just repeating what I've heard.
Mike
Maybe so, but Sherwin's comment was that the wheels were a poor choice because they're too stiff...
C
Clay Tidwell
Guest
"dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
I believe he said that Ullrich's aero rims were a bit rigid and could be a liability on a descent,
especially for a rider who's not known as a great descender.
news:<[email protected]>...
> because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
I believe he said that Ullrich's aero rims were a bit rigid and could be a liability on a descent,
especially for a rider who's not known as a great descender.
N
Nick Burns
Guest
"Steve Blankenship" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:OEUSa.13127$Bp2.491@fed1read07...
> > Historically, those ADA/Lightweights haven't been the easiest things to control on a downhill.
> > Not that I've ridden one, just repeating what
I've
> > heard.
>
> Jonathan Vaughters on the subject, from VeloNews' live coverage:
>
> VN: "By the way, what do you make of Ullrich's wheel choice? "
>
> JV: "Oh, I think he'll be fine. The wheels he used in '97 were ****
compared
> to the newer ones. Boy, this descent off the Tourmalet is a looooong scary one."
I think Paul does not ride race bikes since he retired in the mid 80s. He seems to think that any
"Deep V" rimmed wheel will have problems. The wheels that caused problems for Ullrich back in '87
were very early ADA wheels that were not balanced. What I remember reading later that year was that
Cees Beers (the man that makes them) stated that the wheels should have been returned for balancing.
The story that Cees had was that he was pressured to deliver the wheels early and warned them about
the lack of balance. Just about everyone else claims that Cees is a bit of a liar. BTW, those are
the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean THE SAME wheels. They
belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not returning the rear wheel to update the rear hub
which had some small parts removed to save about 2 grams!
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:OEUSa.13127$Bp2.491@fed1read07...
> > Historically, those ADA/Lightweights haven't been the easiest things to control on a downhill.
> > Not that I've ridden one, just repeating what
I've
> > heard.
>
> Jonathan Vaughters on the subject, from VeloNews' live coverage:
>
> VN: "By the way, what do you make of Ullrich's wheel choice? "
>
> JV: "Oh, I think he'll be fine. The wheels he used in '97 were ****
compared
> to the newer ones. Boy, this descent off the Tourmalet is a looooong scary one."
I think Paul does not ride race bikes since he retired in the mid 80s. He seems to think that any
"Deep V" rimmed wheel will have problems. The wheels that caused problems for Ullrich back in '87
were very early ADA wheels that were not balanced. What I remember reading later that year was that
Cees Beers (the man that makes them) stated that the wheels should have been returned for balancing.
The story that Cees had was that he was pressured to deliver the wheels early and warned them about
the lack of balance. Just about everyone else claims that Cees is a bit of a liar. BTW, those are
the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean THE SAME wheels. They
belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not returning the rear wheel to update the rear hub
which had some small parts removed to save about 2 grams!
R
Raptor
Guest
Nick Burns wrote:
> BTW, those are the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean THE SAME
> wheels. They belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not returning the rear wheel to update
> the rear hub which had some small parts removed to save about 2 grams!
[mildly stunned]: No way!
Where do you hear this kind of stuff?
Why doesn't every GC contender have newly-built, perfectly trued and tuned wheels at the start of
the Tour, with other "perfect" replacements as needed? Is this due to one of those mystical
wheel-building things that only the true Masters know how to manage?
--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
> BTW, those are the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean THE SAME
> wheels. They belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not returning the rear wheel to update
> the rear hub which had some small parts removed to save about 2 grams!
[mildly stunned]: No way!
Where do you hear this kind of stuff?
Why doesn't every GC contender have newly-built, perfectly trued and tuned wheels at the start of
the Tour, with other "perfect" replacements as needed? Is this due to one of those mystical
wheel-building things that only the true Masters know how to manage?
--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
W
Warren
Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nick Burns wrote:
> > BTW, those are the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean THE
> > SAME wheels. They belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not returning the rear wheel to
> > update the rear hub which had some small parts removed to save about 2 grams!
>
> [mildly stunned]: No way!
>
> Where do you hear this kind of stuff?
It was widely reported last year.
>
> Why doesn't every GC contender have newly-built, perfectly trued and tuned wheels at the start of
> the Tour, with other "perfect" replacements as needed? Is this due to one of those mystical
> wheel-building things that only the true Masters know how to manage?
There is such a long wait list for those particular wheels that riders are happy to get what they
can. FYI, Tyler and the rest of CSC are now racing on ZIPP wheels made in Indiana.
-WG
> Nick Burns wrote:
> > BTW, those are the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean THE
> > SAME wheels. They belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not returning the rear wheel to
> > update the rear hub which had some small parts removed to save about 2 grams!
>
> [mildly stunned]: No way!
>
> Where do you hear this kind of stuff?
It was widely reported last year.
>
> Why doesn't every GC contender have newly-built, perfectly trued and tuned wheels at the start of
> the Tour, with other "perfect" replacements as needed? Is this due to one of those mystical
> wheel-building things that only the true Masters know how to manage?
There is such a long wait list for those particular wheels that riders are happy to get what they
can. FYI, Tyler and the rest of CSC are now racing on ZIPP wheels made in Indiana.
-WG
N
Nick Burns
Guest
"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Nick Burns wrote:
> > BTW, those are the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean
THE
> > SAME wheels. They belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not
returning
> > the rear wheel to update the rear hub which had some small parts removed
to
> > save about 2 grams!
>
> [mildly stunned]: No way!
>
> Where do you hear this kind of stuff?
>
> Why doesn't every GC contender have newly-built, perfectly trued and tuned wheels at the start of
> the Tour, with other "perfect" replacements as needed? Is this due to one of those mystical
> wheel-building things that only the true Masters know how to manage?
Usually, yes. These wheels are very well known because Cees Preem felt it necessary to defend his
reputation. He wrote letter of explanation after each incidnt. Of you doubt me then search for
yourslef. I **** you not. The first incident was a balance issue and the second incident was an
issue with the rear pawls that were removed. Preem claims that he warned his clients before the
incidents to repair the wheels. This is no small matter when you consider that these wheels sell for
3000 British Pounds.
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
> in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
> Nick Burns wrote:
> > BTW, those are the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean
THE
> > SAME wheels. They belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not
returning
> > the rear wheel to update the rear hub which had some small parts removed
to
> > save about 2 grams!
>
> [mildly stunned]: No way!
>
> Where do you hear this kind of stuff?
>
> Why doesn't every GC contender have newly-built, perfectly trued and tuned wheels at the start of
> the Tour, with other "perfect" replacements as needed? Is this due to one of those mystical
> wheel-building things that only the true Masters know how to manage?
Usually, yes. These wheels are very well known because Cees Preem felt it necessary to defend his
reputation. He wrote letter of explanation after each incidnt. Of you doubt me then search for
yourslef. I **** you not. The first incident was a balance issue and the second incident was an
issue with the rear pawls that were removed. Preem claims that he warned his clients before the
incidents to repair the wheels. This is no small matter when you consider that these wheels sell for
3000 British Pounds.
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
> in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
N
Nick Burns
Guest
"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:210720032213243670%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Nick Burns wrote:
> > > BTW, those are the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean
THE
> > > SAME wheels. They belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not
returning
> > > the rear wheel to update the rear hub which had some small parts
removed to
> > > save about 2 grams!
> >
> > [mildly stunned]: No way!
> >
> > Where do you hear this kind of stuff?
>
> It was widely reported last year.
> >
> > Why doesn't every GC contender have newly-built, perfectly trued and tuned wheels at the start
> > of the Tour, with other "perfect" replacements as needed? Is this due to one of those mystical
> > wheel-building things that only the true Masters know how to manage?
>
> There is such a long wait list for those particular wheels that riders are happy to get what they
> can. FYI, Tyler and the rest of CSC are now racing on ZIPP wheels made in Indiana.
>
> -WG
They have those special "best of batch" wheels where they weigh all of the components and take
the best from each batch to make wheels that are better balanced and that are some 100 (IIRC)
grams lighter.
> In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Nick Burns wrote:
> > > BTW, those are the same wheels that cause Tyler to crash in last year's Giro. No, I mean
THE
> > > SAME wheels. They belong to Riis. Again, Cees blamed Riis for not
returning
> > > the rear wheel to update the rear hub which had some small parts
removed to
> > > save about 2 grams!
> >
> > [mildly stunned]: No way!
> >
> > Where do you hear this kind of stuff?
>
> It was widely reported last year.
> >
> > Why doesn't every GC contender have newly-built, perfectly trued and tuned wheels at the start
> > of the Tour, with other "perfect" replacements as needed? Is this due to one of those mystical
> > wheel-building things that only the true Masters know how to manage?
>
> There is such a long wait list for those particular wheels that riders are happy to get what they
> can. FYI, Tyler and the rest of CSC are now racing on ZIPP wheels made in Indiana.
>
> -WG
They have those special "best of batch" wheels where they weigh all of the components and take
the best from each batch to make wheels that are better balanced and that are some 100 (IIRC)
grams lighter.
E
Ewoud Dronkert
Guest
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:17:27 GMT, Nick Burns wrote:
> These wheels are very well known because Cees Preem [...]
Cees Beers. Cees Priem was directeur sportif/team manager of TVM.
> These wheels are very well known because Cees Preem [...]
Cees Beers. Cees Priem was directeur sportif/team manager of TVM.
K
Kurgan Gringion
Guest
"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:17:27 GMT, Nick Burns wrote:
> > These wheels are very well known because Cees Preem [...]
>
> Cees Beers. Cees Priem was directeur sportif/team manager of TVM.
Director who ran over riders in races.
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:17:27 GMT, Nick Burns wrote:
> > These wheels are very well known because Cees Preem [...]
>
> Cees Beers. Cees Priem was directeur sportif/team manager of TVM.
Director who ran over riders in races.
S
Scott Downie
Guest
The problem with the rims is that they heat up too much under braking. This causes brake fade and he
can not slow the thing down. Hit the brakes a few times and then you have no brakes. Sounds like a
problem on a decent.
--
Irrationally held truths may be more harmfull than reasoned errors. "Clay Tidwell"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
>
> I believe he said that Ullrich's aero rims were a bit rigid and could be a liability on a descent,
> especially for a rider who's not known as a great descender.
can not slow the thing down. Hit the brakes a few times and then you have no brakes. Sounds like a
problem on a decent.
--
Irrationally held truths may be more harmfull than reasoned errors. "Clay Tidwell"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "dwjones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > because of his choice of bike which is not made for decending
>
> I believe he said that Ullrich's aero rims were a bit rigid and could be a liability on a descent,
> especially for a rider who's not known as a great descender.
N
Nick Burns
Guest
"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:17:27 GMT, Nick Burns wrote:
> > These wheels are very well known because Cees Preem [...]
>
> Cees Beers. Cees Priem was directeur sportif/team manager of TVM.
If only you knew how often I transpose those two names! Thanks! I was closer than normal!!!
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 04:17:27 GMT, Nick Burns wrote:
> > These wheels are very well known because Cees Preem [...]
>
> Cees Beers. Cees Priem was directeur sportif/team manager of TVM.
If only you knew how often I transpose those two names! Thanks! I was closer than normal!!!
- Status
