Shifter/Derailleur Question

[NativeTexan]

I am hot and heavy into the refurb of my Eddy Merckx. I had a new Super Record headset put on earlier this week, and have purchased a number of Campy items on eBay, including cranks and chain rings, front and rear derailleurs, and a pair of Campy C Record friction shifters.

While I am waiting for these items to arrive, I seem to recall back when I was riding, the index shifting systems were starting to making their mark. I believe the system I am replacing is one of the Shimano 600 indexed systems, set and forget! Move the lever, hear the click and the shift would occur thereafter.

Am I correct in assuming that friction shifting is the old way, that these Record components are friction based parts, the derailleurs will be friction based like the shifters?

 

[hd reynolds]

I am hot and heavy into the refurb of my Eddy Merckx. I had a new Super Record headset put on earlier this week, and have purchased a number of Campy items on eBay, including cranks and chain rings, front and rear derailleurs, and a pair of Campy C Record friction shifters.

While I am waiting for these items to arrive, I seem to recall back when I was riding, the index shifting systems were starting to making their mark. I believe the system I am replacing is one of the Shimano 600 indexed systems, set and forget! Move the lever, hear the click and the shift would occur thereafter.

Am I correct in assuming that friction shifting is the old way, that these Record components are friction based parts, the derailleurs will be friction based like the shifters?

Friction shifting is the old way.

C-Record downtube shifters even if they are designed to index are adjustable to work in friction mode.

 

[John M]

I am hot and heavy into the refurb of my Eddy Merckx. I had a new Super Record headset put on earlier this week, and have purchased a number of Campy items on eBay, including cranks and chain rings, front and rear derailleurs, and a pair of Campy C Record friction shifters.

While I am waiting for these items to arrive, I seem to recall back when I was riding, the index shifting systems were starting to making their mark. I believe the system I am replacing is one of the Shimano 600 indexed systems, set and forget! Move the lever, hear the click and the shift would occur thereafter.

Am I correct in assuming that friction shifting is the old way, that these Record components are friction based parts, the derailleurs will be friction based like the shifters?

It is the shifter that determines whether the shifting is indexed or not. C-record is friction. New rear derailleurs will work in friction or indexed mode. Older rear derailleurs may not index properly based on the geometry of their parallelogram but will work with friction shifters. I rehabbed an early 80's steel-framed Trek and am using a 2004 Veloce RD with old Suntour friction shifters and a 9s SRAM casette/chain on an Alex rear hub-quite the mishmash of stuff that I came by cheap-mostly on eBay. (My bike doesn't have the pedigree of your Merckx so doesn't quite deserve all Campy). The whole set up works very well.

 

[NativeTexan]

It is the shifter that determines whether the shifting is indexed or not. C-record is friction.

Thanks for that! I received yesterday the front and rear derailleurs (Super Record) purchased on eBay. To my chagrine, both are quite dirty.

Do I dare take them apart to give a thorough cleaning? Is it acceptable to put them in a tub with degreaser and work them over with a brush, etc?

What should be relubed if and when I get all the parts back together? Do I use grease or a thinner lube like Tri-flow, etc?

 

[hd reynolds]

C-record is friction. .

I disagree... C-Record (the 80's models) came in indexed only but could be converted to friction mode by removing the internal index mechanism. Campy called its indexing system SYNCHRO. FWIW, the internal index mech can also be change to accept 6,7 or even 8 speed indexing.

 

[curby]

put them in solvent, degreaser, whatever... rear deraileur; just put a drop of lube on all the pivot points... the front can be dissassembled after its bath and you can grease the posts the arms pivot on and put a drop of lube on the other pivot points...


i've heard of no downside to putting old campy deraileurs in the solvent tank...

anyone?



all's'miles

curby

 

[NativeTexan]

put them in solvent, degreaser, whatever... rear deraileur; just put a drop of lube on all the pivot points... the front can be dissassembled after its bath and you can grease the posts the arms pivot on and put a drop of lube on the other pivot points...


i've heard of no downside to putting old campy deraileurs in the solvent tank...

anyone?



all's'miles

curby

Demonstrating that even an old fool will rush in where angels fear to tread, I disassembled the rear derailleur into as many pieces as I could figure out how to, and bathed and scrubbed the whole mess. Then I had a nice pile of gizmo's and springs and bolts and nuts and washers to get back together.

It turned out to be quite a challenge, but after fiddling with it most of the day, I finally got them all back together, and it looks like the derailleur may still work, and no pieces left over. The spring was the hard part, figuring how it is supposed to fit and then actually getting it to fit that way.

Flushed with that success, I started in on the C-Record shifters I bought. I took those apart and gave them a good cleaning. I was smart enough to take one apart to clean before taking the other one, luckily! I noticed in mounting them on the bike that there is an odd looking fixture on each side where the shifters screw in. I take that to be some remnants of the Shimano 600 SIS that I removed. Can I/Should I take that stuff off, too, before mounting these friction type shifters?

 

[John M]

Demonstrating that even an old fool will rush in where angels fear to tread, I disassembled the rear derailleur into as many pieces as I could figure out how to, and bathed and scrubbed the whole mess. Then I had a nice pile of gizmo's and springs and bolts and nuts and washers to get back together.

It turned out to be quite a challenge, but after fiddling with it most of the day, I finally got them all back together, and it looks like the derailleur may still work, and no pieces left over. The spring was the hard part, figuring how it is supposed to fit and then actually getting it to fit that way.

Flushed with that success, I started in on the C-Record shifters I bought. I took those apart and gave them a good cleaning. I was smart enough to take one apart to clean before taking the other one, luckily! I noticed in mounting them on the bike that there is an odd looking fixture on each side where the shifters screw in. I take that to be some remnants of the Shimano 600 SIS that I removed. Can I/Should I take that stuff off, too, before mounting these friction type shifters?

Shimano down-tube indexed shifters use a small piece that locks the indexing ratchet in place. One side is flat with a few holes in it that faces the shifter. The other side is either curved or flat (depending on the frame) and has a square indentation to fit over the shifter boss. It should be removed to install your friction shifters.

 

[NativeTexan]

Shimano down-tube indexed shifters use a small piece that locks the indexing ratchet in place. One side is flat with a few holes in it that faces the shifter. The other side is either curved or flat (depending on the frame) and has a square indentation to fit over the shifter boss. It should be removed to install your friction shifters.

Thanks so much for that insight. How do they come off? Threaded?

This project is really starting to show some life. I received today the new SR crankset, just beautiful, and another rear derailleur. One of these days I will post some pictures, once it starts looking like something.

Did Campy make aero brake levers? All the ones I am seeing look like the cables come out the top, old style. I can re-use the Shimano aero levers I had, but all-Campy would be nice if I can find aero style levers.

 

[John M]

Thanks so much for that insight. How do they come off? Threaded?

This project is really starting to show some life. I received today the new SR crankset, just beautiful, and another rear derailleur. One of these days I will post some pictures, once it starts looking like something.

Did Campy make aero brake levers? All the ones I am seeing look like the cables come out the top, old style. I can re-use the Shimano aero levers I had, but all-Campy would be nice if I can find aero style levers.

If we are indeed referring to the same piece or hardware, then it slips off of the brazed-on post. Piece #6 is this exploded diagram of a Dura-ace downtube shifter is what I am referring to. They look identical to the ones on my 80's era 600 shifters:

http://bike.shimano.com/media/cycli...nents/SL/EV-SL-7800_v1_m56577569830536461.pdf

Campy did make aero brake levers for a few years. If you are doing the eBay thing, look for the ones with grayish-white hoods--I believe that would be about the correct vintage for what else you are doing. If you want to be truly classic, gum rubber hoods with cables out the top would be the way to go. A quick eBay search found these aero lever examples, so they are out there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/campagnolo-c-re...0QQihZ010QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Reco...1QQihZ010QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[NativeTexan]

If we are indeed referring to the same piece or hardware, then it slips off of the brazed-on post. Piece #6 is this exploded diagram of a Dura-ace downtube shifter is what I am referring to.

.....

Campy did make aero brake levers for a few years. If you are doing the eBay thing, look for the ones with grayish-white hoods--I believe that would be about the correct vintage for what else you are doing. If you want to be truly classic, gum rubber hoods with cables out the top would be the way to go. A quick eBay search found these aero lever examples, so they are out there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/campagnolo-c-record-brake-lever-NEW_W0QQitemZ200007461630QQihZ010QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Record-white-aero-brake-levers_W0QQitemZ200007976001QQihZ010QQcategoryZ42331QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks for that link to the Shimano blow up diagrams. That will be worth it's weight in gold over the years!

I had seen levers with the gum but not with the gray white hoods. I'l look for those. I seemed to remember that but it's been so many years since I fretted about this stuff that I was hopelessly confused trying to think about it now.

Thanks. This is great help. I appreciate it, and surely will when I finally get out on the Campy-equipped Eddy, some day soon!