Shifting after component upgrade

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by lspeedguy, Jun 17, 2018.

  1. lspeedguy

    lspeedguy New Member

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    Recently upgraded components to Shimano ultegra - rear derailleur is R8000 11s GS with 11-32 rear cluster - experience smooth shifting going from small to large with no gear skip but from large back down it doesn't skip but feels like a 2 gear drop when I'm riding - I know I'll have to probably go back to the shop but thought I'd post here for your thoughts/opinions .

    My initial thoughts are :
    • Derailleur cable a little loose.
    • Chain too long
    • Cage too large
    • Something else ??
    Thanks , in advance , for any responses .
     
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  2. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    SO ...

    Was the OLD derailleur also an 11-speed, Shadow-type rear derailleur?

    What was the removed rear derailleur and why was it replaced?

    Is the shifter an 11-speed or 10-speed shifter?

    AND, approximaely how many miles has it been used?
    Although the leverage provided by the arm onto which the rear derailleur cable is attached makes it seem easy to move the parallelogram, the spring is actually pretty robust ...

    BUT, if properly adjusted, it should not adversely affect the pull UNLESS the shifter is slipping.
    IF the rear derailleur hanger is BENT, then that could be a source for the problem which you are experiencing ...

    There was/is debate over the compatibility of Shimano's 11-speed MTB rear derailleurs being used with 10-speed shifters ... and, while the debate is not definitively resolved, the consensus seems to be that THOSE are despite what Shimano's bean counters & marketing would like people to believe ... AND, in the past 20 years, Shimano's engineers seem to have made a point of making their rear derailleur interchangeable regardless of the group or number of indexed cogs with the only meaningful change being in the width of the pulley wheels between the 8-speed & subsequent rear derailleurs.

    The Shadow--type rear derailleurs ARE a bit more tedious to adjust ... I don't know if the Road variant which you are using lacks the tension adjustor which Shimano's Shadow-type MTB lack(ed?) ... that is, my Shimano Shadow-type XT & SLX rear derailleurs don't have cable adjusters (Shimano presumes you will use the one on the shifter & apparently deemed the one on the derailleur to be redundant POSSIBLY forgetting that Road shifters do NOT have the cable adjuster!)

    If your rear derailleur does NOT have a cable adjuster AND IF the frame's rear derailleur isn't bent, then you may want to consider adding an inline cable adjuster to your setup.

     
  3. lspeedguy

    lspeedguy New Member

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    Thanks Alfeng - your questions have reminded me that I've possibly left out some key information that could explain what I'm experiencing - I had Campy chorus ergo-power shifters with distinct upshift and downshift levers located in the brake area - my new ones are Shimano STI shifters , where both upshifting and downshifting are activated in the brakes .

    What I could be feeling/sensing is just the different way these two different designs work - however , I seem to recall a smoother transition from cog to cog in both upshifting and downshifting with the Campy design - with the Shimano STI shifters the transition is smoother while upshifting as compared to downshifting where I sense some hesitation and a bigger drop from a particular cog to the next smaller one .

    Alfeng , from your experience is this normal for the STI shifters or do I need a particular adjustment in these shifters for the rear cluster ?

    Lspeedguy (2003 model year)
     
  4. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    WHY .... ?!?

    Why would you expect any other shifters to feel as good as Campagnolo shifters?!?

    It has been over a decade since I used Shimano STI Road shifters on a regular basis ...

    I will say that the indifferent sensation you have was built into the Shimano shifters in the past because someone in Osaka who-probably-has-yet-to-retire and is probably one of the heads of one of the engineering departments, now, probably thinks that less resistance-or-feedback means smoother operation ... hence the "dwell" when shifting to a larger cog + what can only be suggested to be a similar lack of feedback with Shimano's comparatively long inner paddle vs. having your thumb 1" away from the shifter's escape mechanism ...

    It's a heresy, but let me say (as an example) that the MicroShift 9-speed shifter (so it is probably true for the later iterations) thumb shift has an even shorter stroke than Campagnolo's ... and so, is certainly better than Shimano's now-vintage 9-speed shift mechanisms ...

    A 10-speed MicroShift shifter will probably solve your problem!
    If there is an 11-speed iterations of MicroShift shifters, then they may be better for those who aren't as locked into the name on the compoenent.
    Subjectively -- because 11-speed Campagnolo shifters can be used with a 10-or-11-speed Shimano Cassette -- the BEST SOLUTION for you (IMO) may be to jettison your Shimano shifters and go back to using Campagnolo shifters ...

    One set up that I have uses an 11-speed Chorus shifter with a vintage (c2000) Racing Comp rear derailleur (almost any post-2001 mid-length cage Campagnolo rear derailleur will also work) and an 11-36 10-speed Shimano Cassette.

    As I have noted in the past (and/or you may already have known), you can hubbub the rear derailleur cable's connection on a Shimano rear derailleur to make it respond like a Campagnolo rear derailleur. That should be true for the Shadow-type Ultegra rear derailleur which you have.

     
    #4 alfeng, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  5. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    A 10-speed MicroShift shifter will probably solve your problem!

    If there is an 11-speed iteration of MicroShift shifters, then they may-or-may-not be a better mechanical Road shifter to use for those who aren't ready for Campagnolo AND who aren't locked into the name on the compoenent.


     
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