Shimano 105

[GT Fanatic]

First off, I'm not a bicycle mechanic, but I feel like over the past month and a half of owning this particular bicycle, I'm starting to learn a lot, and I'm not meaning this from the positive end of the spectrum.

I bought a 2010 Schwinn Paramount Series 7 on June 21st, and it had nothing but shifting issues with the Shimano 105 componentry. I had it back and forth to numerous shops no fewer than 10 times within that period of time.

The chain would slip while climbing steeper grades, the gears would slip either or down while climbing those same steep grades, if all of the rear gears worked right when the front chainring was in one gear, they wouldn't work in the other (it didn't matter whether it was the large chainring or the small one), rear gears would skip and hunt, I'd have to tap the shifter twice to get a gear to switch, etc.

I finally had enough of hearing, "Just fine-tune the barrel adjusters," or "There's a break-in period." I had ridden this bicycle no fewer than 200 miles since purchase. I'd say that's more than enough time for a "break-in period." Not to mention, the additional costs from having to trek this bike from one bicycle shop to the next, some of which were 50 miles away.

On Tuesday morning I returned to Performance Bike upon their customer service department's request and exchanged the bike for a replacement. I rode the replacement bike around the parking lot, trying out the gears, and they seemed to work okay, but the problem is that there aren't many hills in Fairfax, VA. To simulate a hill, I'd press the rear brake to build drag, and everything worked fine.

I got home with the bike, went out for a spin, and sure enough, everything went to Hell. Once again, I'm having issues with the bicycle, and they are the SAME, EXACT ISSUES as I was dealing with before!

What is up with this Shimano 105 stuff? I keep hearing about how it's the "industry standard," and it's "good ****," but I'm going to beg to differ. Here I am with a $2000 (retail) road bike and I have nothing but problems with it, and this is the SECOND one! My wife has a $380 mountain bike that doesn't have these sorts of issues, and the mountain bike takes a beating!

Somebody PLEASE tell me what's up with this Shimano 105 stuff, because I think 105 are piles of absolute ****.

I've given this bicycle until the end of the month to be sorted, and if not, I'm returning it, period. It's disappointing, because this is the bicycle that I chose and I want, but I'm not going to continue to deal with this bs on a $2000 bicycle.

Not feeling confident, I'm already looking at my other options, but to my dismay, they too, have Shimano 105 componentry.

 

[Scotty_Dog]

Answer x 3 (for each of your posts):

It's not the 105 groupset. Something is either inherently wrong with the bike or how it was assembled and adjusted. My guess is the latter. Why wait until the end of the month for it to sort itself out? Take it back now.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

First off, I'm not a bicycle mechanic, but I feel like over the past month and a half of owning this particular bicycle, I'm starting to learn a lot, and I'm not meaning this from the positive end of the spectrum.

I bought a 2010 Schwinn Paramount Series 7 on June 21st, and it had nothing but shifting issues with the Shimano 105 componentry. I had it back and forth to numerous shops no fewer than 10 times within that period of time.

The chain would slip while climbing steeper grades, the gears would slip either or down while climbing those same steep grades, if all of the rear gears worked right when the front chainring was in one gear, they wouldn't work in the other (it didn't matter whether it was the large chainring or the small one), rear gears would skip and hunt, I'd have to tap the shifter twice to get a gear to switch, etc.

I finally had enough of hearing, "Just fine-tune the barrel adjusters," or "There's a break-in period." I had ridden this bicycle no fewer than 200 miles since purchase. I'd say that's more than enough time for a "break-in period." Not to mention, the additional costs from having to trek this bike from one bicycle shop to the next, some of which were 50 miles away.

On Tuesday morning I returned to Performance Bike upon their customer service department's request and exchanged the bike for a replacement. I rode the replacement bike around the parking lot, trying out the gears, and they seemed to work okay, but the problem is that there aren't many hills in Fairfax, VA. To simulate a hill, I'd press the rear brake to build drag, and everything worked fine.

I got home with the bike, went out for a spin, and sure enough, everything went to Hell. Once again, I'm having issues with the bicycle, and they are the SAME, EXACT ISSUES as I was dealing with before!

What is up with this Shimano 105 stuff? I keep hearing about how it's the "industry standard," and it's "good ****," but I'm going to beg to differ. Here I am with a $2000 (retail) road bike and I have nothing but problems with it, and this is the SECOND one! My wife has a $380 mountain bike that doesn't have these sorts of issues, and the mountain bike takes a beating!

Somebody PLEASE tell me what's up with this Shimano 105 stuff, because I think 105 are piles of absolute ****.

I've given this bicycle until the end of the month to be sorted, and if not, I'm returning it, period. It's disappointing, because this is the bicycle that I chose and I want, but I'm not going to continue to deal with this bs on a $2000 bicycle.

Not feeling confident, I'm already looking at my other options, but to my dismay, they too, have Shimano 105 componentry.

It isn't the components, it's the wrench or the assembler. I see many, many shimano equipped bikes and they run reliably, smoothly, consistently.

 

[sd790]

The bikes have both been set up by Performance - probably by the same mechanic. Perhaps you should return your bike now and look elsewhere to save yourself the stress. Both bikes are probably missing a cassette spacer, or have the cables run onto the wrong side of the retaining bolts, or some other stupid mistake. 105 is good, at least much better than you are describing.

 

[davereo]

Answer x 3 (for each of your posts):

It's not the 105 groupset. Something is either inherently wrong with the bike or how it was assembled and adjusted. My guess is the latter. Why wait until the end of the month for it to sort itself out? Take it back now.

"Take it back now". You should be out enjoying your new ride not struggling with it. If you have a trainer maybe you can put the bike on the trainer and try on there. Maybe your problem will show up and you would have a way of showing the shop manager what is going on when you get there.

 

[GT Fanatic]

Okay, I'm not waiting until the end of the month to have it looked at. I'm giving it until the end of the month for it to be sorted by someone.

I have two Shimano-equipped mountain bikes that run flawlessly.

I got the bicycles at different Performance locations, so I know it's not the same person putting them together.

I absolutely agree that I should be out enjoying the bicycle, and believe me, I'm as frustrated as all Hell. I have a guy from our club looking at it this evening, and he's like Yoda when it comes to bicycles. The guy's been working on them for years, and he definitely knows his ****.

Whatever the case, if things don't work out with this bike, and I'm not confident that they will, I'm probably going to be purchasing a Cannondale Synapse. I rode a Caad9-5 in the past and didn't think too much of the aggressive geometry or the ride quality, but I may give it another sit, just because now I am used to riding in a more aggressive position and on a road bike.

From what I understand, from everyone that I've talked to, there is a break-in period with componentry such as derailleur cables. I'm down with that, and I cna be patient, but how long should I wait?

 

[roadhouse]

please don't bite my head off for trying to help you but ALL bike stores have at least a one time free tune-up which means they will go over your bike and tighten up all of your cables and check your wheels to make sure they are tru precisely for this occasion, the break in period, usually saying to bring it in after one month if i'm not mistake or around 100 miles for a newb which i'm guessing with your past ownership of other bikes and your now 200 miles on this bike you are not so, so new but those 200 miles you've now acquired does ( again, if i'm not mistake it's around 100 miles) surpass the recommended time suggested to bring the bike back in thus explaining without a doubt the reason you are having such a problem.

and correct me if i'm wrong but i was under the impression, not ever having purchased a bike from performance, that all bikes have a life time free tune-up. that's a plus because they are usually no less than $50 after that at local stores.

 

[GT Fanatic]

please don't bite my head off for trying to help you but ALL bike stores have at least a one time free tune-up which means they will go over your bike and tighten up all of your cables and check your wheels to make sure they are tru precisely for this occasion, the break in period, usually saying to bring it in after one month if i'm not mistake or around 100 miles for a newb which i'm guessing with your past ownership of other bikes and your now 200 miles on this bike you are not so, so new but those 200 miles you've now acquired does ( again, if i'm not mistake it's around 100 miles) surpass the recommended time suggested to bring the bike back in thus explaining without a doubt the reason you are having such a problem.

and correct me if i'm wrong but i was under the impression, not ever having purchased a bike from performance, that all bikes have a life time free tune-up. that's a plus because they are usually no less than $50 after that at local stores.

Why would I bite your head off?

You are correct that Performance does have lifetime tune-ups, which is probably because their employees are such f**tards.

I've had the bicycle back to numerous Performance locations (Newark, DE, Fairfax, VA, Reston, VA, Gaithersburg/Rockville, MD), a LBS, and nobody could fix the bike.

It's not like I'm trying to be unreasonable, but I bought a bike 1.5 months ago, and all I want to do is enjoy it. Unfortunately, I've been unable to do that. I completely understand there is a break-in period, and that's fine, but after logging a few 100 miles and I'm making 100 mile round-trips once every week or two, it gets a bit taxing.

 

[TKOS]

I have 105 on my new bike with about 500 kms on it. Flawless. So yeah, I doubt it is the components.

 

[roadhouse]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjJfKO_tAo0]YouTube - ‪How to Adjust Bicycle Gears‬‎[/ame]

 

[GT Fanatic]

I have 105 on my new bike with about 500 kms on it. Flawless. So yeah, I doubt it is the components.

That's what everyone keeps saying. My wife works with a guy who's big into cycling and he said the same thing, "My bike's 10 years old and 105 is the way to go."

YouTube - ‪How to Adjust Bicycle Gears‬‎

Thanks for providing this video, Roadhouse. Lance-bash away. I won't give you **** about it any longer.

 

[dhk2]

GT, as other's have said, it's not the 105 components, but the bike design or build. I'd suggest you don't touch the bike yourself, but take it back right away for a refund. The Performance bike $2000 "bargain" obviously isn't worth the aggrievation....I'd bail out on them quickly and never look back.

 

[alfeng]

First off, I'm not a bicycle mechanic, but I feel like over the past month and a half of owning this particular bicycle, I'm starting to learn a lot, and I'm not meaning this from the positive end of the spectrum.

I bought a 2010 Schwinn Paramount Series 7 on June 21st, and it had nothing but shifting issues with the Shimano 105 componentry. I had it back and forth to numerous shops no fewer than 10 times within that period of time.

The chain would slip while climbing steeper grades, the gears would slip either or down while climbing those same steep grades, if all of the rear gears worked right when the front chainring was in one gear, they wouldn't work in the other (it didn't matter whether it was the large chainring or the small one), rear gears would skip and hunt, I'd have to tap the shifter twice to get a gear to switch, etc.

I finally had enough of hearing, "Just fine-tune the barrel adjusters," or "There's a break-in period." I had ridden this bicycle no fewer than 200 miles since purchase. I'd say that's more than enough time for a "break-in period." Not to mention, the additional costs from having to trek this bike from one bicycle shop to the next, some of which were 50 miles away.

On Tuesday morning I returned to Performance Bike upon their customer service department's request and exchanged the bike for a replacement. I rode the replacement bike around the parking lot, trying out the gears, and they seemed to work okay, but the problem is that there aren't many hills in Fairfax, VA. To simulate a hill, I'd press the rear brake to build drag, and everything worked fine.

I got home with the bike, went out for a spin, and sure enough, everything went to Hell. Once again, I'm having issues with the bicycle, and they are the SAME, EXACT ISSUES as I was dealing with before!

What is up with this Shimano 105 stuff? I keep hearing about how it's the "industry standard," and it's "good ****," but I'm going to beg to differ. Here I am with a $2000 (retail) road bike and I have nothing but problems with it, and this is the SECOND one! My wife has a $380 mountain bike that doesn't have these sorts of issues, and the mountain bike takes a beating!

Somebody PLEASE tell me what's up with this Shimano 105 stuff, because I think 105 are piles of absolute ****.

I've given this bicycle until the end of the month to be sorted, and if not, I'm returning it, period. It's disappointing, because this is the bicycle that I chose and I want, but I'm not going to continue to deal with this bs on a $2000 bicycle.

Not feeling confident, I'm already looking at my other options, but to my dismay, they too, have Shimano 105 componentry.

Ya wanna know what's really funny...

It's when there are numerous people posting in a thread and only ONE of those people get a different impression than everyone else, THEN argue about how EVERYONE ELSE is wrong EXCEPT FOR himself. The odds are that when EVERYONE disagrees with you, YOU are the one who is wrong.

On the contrary, YOU should hold on to YOUR perception of communication skills, or better yet, DON'T.
​

Okay, here's my "different impression" ...

I've said it before, but there are so many people in denial that you may choose to ignore it, too ...

The problem probably stems from the "dwell" which Shimano engineers designed in their STI shifters which is not a factor for Flatlanders OR for people who are willing to unweight the drivetrain when downshifting ...

The balky downshifting apparently has been exacerbated by the floating upper pulley which some Shimano's engineer introduced with their 10-speed rear derailleurs ... but, the effects of the floating upper pulley can be mitigated with the most recent asymmetrical chain which Shimano introduced with the 7900 DA group.
​

IMO, you have a couple of options:

The first may not be beneficial -- swap the lower pulley which doesn't float with the one that does. If it is better, then either leave it as is, or put the floating pulley back in the upper position BUT with a washer to prevent it from floating.

The second option will work -- it involves replacing the Shimano shifters with 10-speed Campagnolo (non-QS!) shifters ... by my reckoning, you will have to either hubbub.com the rear derailleur cable anchoring to achieve 10-speed Shimano indexing OR buy a SRAM Road rear derailleur OR change the 10-speed cassette to a 9-speed cassette.

If you change to a 9-speed cassette, you will want to change the front derailleur to a 9-speed Shimano front derailleur.

You should be able to sell the 10-speed Shimano shifters for about the amount which the 10-speed Campagnolo shifters will cost. You do not want either the Campagnolo Xenon-based QS shifters or the yet to be released Campagnolo Power Tech shifters.

If you are committed to keeping the Shimano shifters AND/OR swapping the pulley wheels doesn't have a beneficial effect, then you should consider ponying up for one of the new, asymmetrical Shimano chains.

 

[davereo]

If you do bail out on them and get your money back. I own both the Caad9 and Synapse you mentioned and your evaluation of the caad 9 is spot on. The Synapse is a lot more comfortable to ride and performs well. Hopefully you get all your problems resolved without having to resort to this.

 

[davereo]

Ya wanna know what's really funny...

It's when there are numerous people posting in a thread and only ONE of those people get a different impression than everyone else, THEN argue about how EVERYONE ELSE is wrong EXCEPT FOR himself. The odds are that when EVERYONE disagrees with you, YOU are the one who is wrong.

On the contrary, YOU should hold on to YOUR perception of communication skills, or better yet, DON'T.
​

Okay, here's my "different impression" ...

I've said it before, but there are so many people in denial that you may choose to ignore it, too ...

The problem probably stems from the "dwell" which Shimano engineers designed in their STI shifters which is not a factor for Flatlanders OR for people who are willing to unweight the drivetrain when downshifting ...

The balky downshifting apparently has been exacerbated by the floating upper pulley which some Shimano's engineer introduced with their 10-speed rear derailleurs ... but, the effects of the floating upper pulley can be mitigated with the most recent asymmetrical chain which Shimano introduced with the 7900 DA group.
​

IMO, you have a couple of options:

The first may not be beneficial -- swap the lower pulley which doesn't float with the one that does. If it is better, then either leave it as is, or put the floating pulley back in the upper position BUT with a washer to prevent it from floating.

The second option will work -- it involves replacing the Shimano shifters with 10-speed Campagnolo (non-QS!) shifters ... by my reckoning, you will have to either hubbub.com the rear derailleur cable anchoring to achieve 10-speed Shimano indexing OR buy a SRAM Road rear derailleur OR change the 10-speed cassette to a 9-speed cassette.

If you change to a 9-speed cassette, you will want to change the front derailleur to a 9-speed Shimano front derailleur.

You should be able to sell the 10-speed Shimano shifters for about the amount which the 10-speed Campagnolo shifters will cost. You do not want either the Campagnolo Xenon-based QS shifters or the yet to be released Campagnolo Power Tech shifters.

If you are committed to keeping the Shimano shifters AND/OR swapping the pulley wheels doesn't have a beneficial effect, then you should consider ponying up for one of the new, asymmetrical Shimano chains.

This may be good advice for someone to entertain if they have just purchased a used bike. Dude GT is struggling with a brand new purchase that is still under warranty.

 

[alfeng]

This may be good advice for someone to entertain if they have just purchased a used bike. Dude GT is struggling with a brand new purchase that is still under warranty.

Yes, I do realize that GT Fanatic is dealing with a new bike which is still under warranty ...

Regardless, the problem isn't with the bike, itself ...

And, the problem probably isn't with the Wrenches who have been working on the bike ...

Consequently, I was trying to explain WHY the problem was probably occurring & HOW it could possibly be resolved ...

I reckon that either swapping the pulley wheel OR changing the chain to Shimano's latest-and-greatest will probably mitigate the problem, but I suspect that GT Fanatic now realizes, first hand, what I & others have lamented about Shimano's balky downshifting when the drivetrain is under a serious load ...
​

Yet, the final/easiest (IMO) solution which he may need to consider at some point in the future is a set of Campagnolo shifters (with or without Campagnolo deraillers/etc.) ...

Since I think that Shimano makes some of the best components, and because I know the rest of a Shimano drivetrain can work with Campagnolo's shifters, I don't see why anyone who isn't a Flatlander should be resigned to either suffering with Shimano shifters or paying a premium for Campagnolo components -- why not use the best of all possibilities?

 

[dhk2]

GT, it sounds to me like something is wrong with these Performance bikes. I'd say return the bike immediately. Don't try adjusting anything, because if you fiddle around Performance could try to place blame on you. You just spent $2000 for a new bike, so you shouldn't need to fix it yourself or spend more money on campy shifters to modify your new bike. If you've ridden Shimano-equipped road bikes, you know how they are supposed to work.

Backing up a minute, from your description of the problem, I can't tell if the chain is skipping while the bike is in gear, ie, jumping on the same cog, or if it tries to shift on it's own when heavy load is applied and ends up between gears. Also, can't tell if the problem occurs when you're trying to shift under load, or if the skipping starts when you're not touching the lever. The more precisely you can describe your issue to the mechanic, the better the chance of a quick and accurate diagnosis and fix.

Also, these problems should occur on a flat parking lot under load. You shouldn't need to touch the brakes for any reason, just stand up and accelerate and pay attention to what happens. There's nothing special about hills after all. If a mechanic can't duplicate the problem on a parking lot, it makes solving the issue difficult, and also makes your complaint suspect.

 

[kdelong]

I doubt that the 105 coponents are the problem as they have been proven over time to be good components. And since the bikes have been assembled by different wrenches I doubt that it is the wrenches. That leaves the bike, but there have been two bikes and both had the same problem. Therefore, I would say that it is probably the design of the bike. Is it possible that when this happens, the frame flexes just enough to put a little more pull into your shift cable, throwing the gearing out of adjustment? The gearing tolerances on the 10-speed 105 are closer than on the old 9-speed. Do you really hammer up those steep grades where this happens? I would return the bike and start looking for a frame with less flex.

 

[Resistorlead]

Could this be something subtle and hard to see by eye like chain a bit too long or too short, or the cage a bit out of alignment? Shifting mechanisms just aren't rocket science and IMO alfeng has some good ideas. Nothing I buy is ever quite perfect, so I mess with everything. OTOH, if the bike is to be returned, now's the time.

 

[GT Fanatic]

Ya wanna know what's really funny...

It's when there are numerous people posting in a thread and only ONE of those people get a different impression than everyone else, THEN argue about how EVERYONE ELSE is wrong EXCEPT FOR himself. The odds are that when EVERYONE disagrees with you, YOU are the one who is wrong.

On the contrary, YOU should hold on to YOUR perception of communication skills, or better yet, DON'T.
​

Okay, here's my "different impression" ...

I've said it before, but there are so many people in denial that you may choose to ignore it, too ...

The problem probably stems from the "dwell" which Shimano engineers designed in their STI shifters which is not a factor for Flatlanders OR for people who are willing to unweight the drivetrain when downshifting ...

The balky downshifting apparently has been exacerbated by the floating upper pulley which some Shimano's engineer introduced with their 10-speed rear derailleurs ... but, the effects of the floating upper pulley can be mitigated with the most recent asymmetrical chain which Shimano introduced with the 7900 DA group.
​

IMO, you have a couple of options:

The first may not be beneficial -- swap the lower pulley which doesn't float with the one that does. If it is better, then either leave it as is, or put the floating pulley back in the upper position BUT with a washer to prevent it from floating.

The second option will work -- it involves replacing the Shimano shifters with 10-speed Campagnolo (non-QS!) shifters ... by my reckoning, you will have to either hubbub.com the rear derailleur cable anchoring to achieve 10-speed Shimano indexing OR buy a SRAM Road rear derailleur OR change the 10-speed cassette to a 9-speed cassette.

If you change to a 9-speed cassette, you will want to change the front derailleur to a 9-speed Shimano front derailleur.

You should be able to sell the 10-speed Shimano shifters for about the amount which the 10-speed Campagnolo shifters will cost. You do not want either the Campagnolo Xenon-based QS shifters or the yet to be released Campagnolo Power Tech shifters.

If you are committed to keeping the Shimano shifters AND/OR swapping the pulley wheels doesn't have a beneficial effect, then you should consider ponying up for one of the new, asymmetrical Shimano chains.

Okay, what is your point? I never argued with anyone. Clearly there is an issue with the bicycle and NOT the Shimano componentry. I'm pretty sure that has been established.

If you do bail out on them and get your money back. I own both the Caad9 and Synapse you mentioned and your evaluation of the caad 9 is spot on. The Synapse is a lot more comfortable to ride and performs well. Hopefully you get all your problems resolved without having to resort to this.

This may be good advice for someone to entertain if they have just purchased a used bike. Dude GT is struggling with a brand new purchase that is still under warranty.

Okay, indeed there WAS a problem with the bicycle, from the factory (I brought it to Performance today).

The derailleur cables are routed through the body, and whoever installed them from the factory crossed them, which was causing one of them to pull on the other, which was stopping the derailleur from working correctly.

They had agreed to upgrade me to an Ultegra rear derailleur for the difference in price between it and a 105. They installed the Ultegra and still had the same problem. This issue was discovered when the tech was pulling on the derailleur cable and the other one was moving.

I was frustrated, but the guys really tried to help me out, and I left the bicycle with them so they could re-route the cables and everything. They called later this afternoon and told me that 3 people had ridden it and the error seemed to be fixed.

While I was there, I did find my "replacement." There was a GT Series 1 with all Ultegra, plus carbon seat-stays and fork. It also had those nice wheels with the "flat-bladed" spokes. It was a very nice bike. They also had a GT Carbon right next to it (in the same size) and I had to compare the weights for myself. Honestly, the aluminum/carbon did not feel any heavier than the full-carbon one did. The full-carbon model had 105 and cheaper wheels.

If things don't work out, I'm going to be coming home with the GT Series 1 with the Ultegra group. I'll probably have to fork out another $100-$200, but that's okay. Regardless, I'm still hoping everything goes well with my Schwinn, because that's the bike I really want.