Shimano - 11/36 Mtn Cassette Road Compatible



litespeedguy

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Just recently heard that Shimano has a mountain bike cassette that is compatible for a road bike and has a high end at 36 teeth - is this true ??
 

CAMPYBOB

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Sep 12, 2005
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Probably. SRAM just introduced a 42T.



I have to ask...'what' are people climbing with these things? Telephone poles?
 

CAMPYBOB

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Sep 12, 2005
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shimaNO 12-36: http://harriscyclery.net/product/shimano-hg-61-12-36-9-speed-cassette-3054.htm

No reason it wouldn't work on a road bike if the derailleur had the capacity to match.



Note: Shimano recommends that this cassette is only compatible with Shimano Shadow type rear derailleurs. We've run it successfully with a basic Deore (non-shadow design) with a longer (20mm) B-tension screw all the way in. You might have to reverse it for more adjustment.

If this cassette is being used on a 29er Mountain bike, it must be used in conjunction with the Shimano M629/M529 29er hubs.

Designed for 29ers but is also a new option for touring bikes!

No need to replace your double crankset when you have a 36t bailout gear!


This cassette will fit any Shimano 9-speed hub.
 

litespeedguy

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Sep 13, 2003
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Bob,

to answer your question, these are partly aimed at vane older riders who still want to look "in" riding a double
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Lite
 

jhuskey

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Oct 6, 2003
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Quote: Originally Posted by litespeedguy .
Bob,

to answer your question, these are partly aimed at vane older riders who still want to look "in" riding a double
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Lite


Did someone call me?
 

CAMPYBOB

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With a compact crankset and a 29 I would think even a heavy, out-of-shape geezer could get over the Rockies. I was wondering if there was some new road bike event that was like tractor pulling!
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Quote: Originally Posted by litespeedguy .
Just recently heard that Shimano has a mountain bike cassette that is compatible for a road bike and has a high end at 36 teeth - is this true ??


YOU cannot use a Campagnolo rear derailleur with an 11t-36t Cassette UNLESS you modify the rear derailleur ...
If you are really handy (kids, don't try this at home ...) then you can modify a Campagnolo rear derailleur to work with a mega-range Cassette ...

Here is the derailleur mounted on a frame...
.Oops!?!

.. there is too much clearance between the upper pulley wheel and the largest cog on an 11-32 Cassette

As you can probably see, there is clearance for a much larger Cog ...

  • by my belated reckoning, there is easily clearance for more than a 36t Cog ...
  • but probably not a 42t Cog.

BUT, the good news is that there is no need to modify a Campagnolo rear derailleur since many Shimano rear derailleurs can be used with a variety of Campagnolo shifters to achieve a variety of different Shimano/-compatible indexing.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Quote: Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .
With a compact crankset and a 29 I would think even a heavy, out-of-shape geezer could get over the Rockies. I was wondering if there was some new road bike event that was like tractor pulling!


Yes.
I would think that (even for older riders) a 34t Chainring + 29t Cog should actually be suitable for-pulling-out-tree-stumps.
 

Eichers

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Sep 17, 2010
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Quote: Originally Posted by litespeedguy .
Just recently heard that Shimano has a mountain bike cassette that is compatible for a road bike and has a high end at 36 teeth - is this true ??
Hi litespeedguy, it was true before Shimano realized it was true
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Have a look at this thread ... http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/477148/an-alternative-to-using-a-compact-crank-set

thanks KL
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CAMPYBOB

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Alf, the last generation of Campy 'Long Cage' (89 MM pulley center-to-center) rear derailleurs wrapped only 39 teeth, total.

I guess a Campy Long Cage would shift a 39T cassette with a single front chainring (hey now...Campy has got to cash in on the hip new 1-11 SRAM craze!) or a close ratio double 'if' you could get that 3" derailleur hanger to clear that pie pan granny gear!

I'm still freaked that SRAM has a 42T cassette. Spinning that reminds me of the old codger I passed on Chicken Coop Hill with one of those old 'sewing machine gears' on a T.A. crank...maybe a 24 or 26 ring driving a 32 or 34 rear freewheel gear. The poor guy was spinning 95 RPM and going .003 MPH up that wall!
 

Eichers

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Sep 17, 2010
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Quote: Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .
Alf, the last generation of Campy 'Long Cage' (89 MM pulley center-to-center) rear derailleurs wrapped only 39 teeth, total.

I guess a Campy Long Cage would shift a 39T cassette with a single front chainring (hey now...Campy has got to cash in on the hip new 1-11 SRAM craze!) or a close ratio double 'if' you could get that 3" derailleur hanger to clear that pie pan granny gear!

I'm still freaked that SRAM has a 42T cassette. Spinning that reminds me of the old codger I passed on Chicken Coop Hill with one of those old 'sewing machine gears' on a T.A. crank...maybe a 24 or 26 ring driving a 32 or 34 rear freewheel gear. The poor guy was spinning 95 RPM and going .003 MPH up that wall!

Hi CAMPYBOB, the Sram XX1 10-42T 11spd cassette only runs with a single crankring (up front) such as a 44T, 46T or 48T.
In many ways it simplifies things and provides a large range of gearing (usually only found with internal gearing like the 11spd Alfine), so no need to feel freaked out
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thanks KL
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CAMPYBOB

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Sep 12, 2005
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KLabs,

Yeah, the 42T frisbee was released for the single chainring mountain bike crowd in order for large travel rear suspension bike to have a wide range of gears minus the front D. It will be on double road bikes just as soon as some enterprising septuagenarian figures out he really can wrap all that chain.

Old men were still able to rock the double up steep climbs way back in the dark ages without hauling 11 gears in the rear...the size of a dinner plate.

 

Eichers

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Sep 17, 2010
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Hi CAMPYBOB, you do carry on quite alot but one thing is for sure ... isn't it good we have options, especially for touring
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That picture shows one very small inside crankring. No need for a 42T sprocket with that one ... maybe a 32T sprocket will do (for tree climbing)
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thanks KL
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litespeedguy

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Sep 13, 2003
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currently I'm 39/53 & 13/29 , all Chorus (double) - ideally I'd like to swap the 39 for something smaller - it may then turn out that I'd need different derailleurs but cost wise it would be better than some of the other alternatives to achieve the same .

Alienator posted a link to a French company , Specialites-TA that makes Campy compatible chainrings in many different sizes but a quick glance at their site didn't look promising - I may send them an email.

CBob , do you know what the BCD would be for a circa 2003 Chorus double crank ? the surface of the crank isn't flat making an accurate measurement hard - I may just have to stick a dowel into one of the bolt holes & measure across to the middle ; I'm pretty sure companies like Specialites wouldn't invest in providing parts for older equipment but you never know .

The New England Winter is fast approaching and so , if I can pull this off inexpensively , I'll be ready for my part time job pulling trucks out of ditches
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alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Quote: Originally Posted by litespeedguy .
currently I'm 39/53 & 13/29 , all Chorus (double) - ideally I'd like to swap the 39 for something smaller - it may then turn out that I'd need different derailleurs but cost wise it would be better than some of the other alternatives to achieve the same .

Alienator posted a link to a French company , Specialites-TA that makes Campy compatible chainrings in many different sizes but a quick glance at their site didn't look promising - I may send them an email.

CBob , do you know what the BCD would be for a circa 2003 Chorus double crank ? the surface of the crank isn't flat making an accurate measurement hard - I may just have to stick a dowel into one of the bolt holes & measure across to the middle ; I'm pretty sure companies like Specialites wouldn't invest in providing parts for older equipment but you never know .

The New England Winter is fast approaching and so , if I can pull this off inexpensively , I'll be ready for my part time job pulling trucks out of ditches
001_smile.gif



FYI. The Bolt Circle Diameter for standard Campagnolo Road cranks has been 135BCD for the past 2+ decades.

You can use ANY brand 74BCD Granny Chanring if the crankset will accept it; but, if you insist on TA then you can check Harris Cyclery.

BTW. If you want to use a Double with a smaller inner Chainring, then you will need to change the crankset to one which has a smaller BCD.
 

CAMPYBOB

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"CBob , do you know what the BCD would be for a circa 2003 Chorus double crank ?"

As Alf said, 135 MM bolt circle diameter for a standard (39-53, 42-52, etc.) Campy double crankset.

The compact crankset has a 110 MM bolt circle diameter and Campy offers 36T and 34T inner chainrings.

For pulling trucks back onto the road, get that SRAM 42T pie platter and some carbide-studded ice racing tires. At $50 per hook, you'll enough money by spring that to buy a new Campy Super Record EPS equipped Colnago!
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Quote: Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .
"CBob , do you know what the BCD would be for a circa 2003 Chorus double crank ?"

As Alf said, 135 MM bolt circle diameter for a standard (39-53, 42-52, etc.) Campy double crankset.

The compact crankset has a 110 MM bolt circle diameter and Campy offers 36T and 34T inner chainrings.

For pulling trucks back onto the road, get that SRAM 42T pie platter and some carbide-studded ice racing tires. At $50 per hook, you'll enough money by spring that to buy a new Campy Super Record EPS equipped Colnago!


Campagnolo's 110BCD Chainrings are proprietary to some extent ...

The "fifth" hole which is hidden behind the crankarm is offset ...

Any standard, non-Campagnolo 110BCD Chainring can be used on a Campagnolo CT crankset if the "fifth" hole is elongated by about (¿) 2mm.
 

CAMPYBOB

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Sep 12, 2005
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Yeah, PowerTorque to UltraTorque retimed the rings, changed a fastener and made interchange a *****. I'm sure there are some options if you don't mind the chain drop pin being out of time with the crank arm or the shift ramps not aligning with the other ring.

There's been more changes in the Campy product line in the last 10 years than the preceding 20. What I find...disturbing...is the reduction and deletion in group parts from production. No more seatposts? Only one range of pedals (Record)? Lack of a complete headset range? Hub models reduced? And yet they still offer NINE levels of groupsets?! And we do get that awesome choice of Black OR Red quick release levers...
 

Eichers

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Sep 17, 2010
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Quote: Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB . ... For pulling trucks back onto the road, get that SRAM 42T pie platter and some carbide-studded ice racing tires ...
Hi CAMPYBOB, interesting ...

Let's have a look at the gearing ratios of say a SRAM XX1 10-42T cassette with a 46T single crankring and an 11-28T cassette with a 34-50T dual crankring.
Specifically 42/46 and 10/46, and 28/34 and 11/50 ...
Formula is ... Drive wheel diameter (26.5") x front crankring divided by rear sprocket

SRAM XX1 10-42T cassette with a 46T single crankring ...
- 42/46 - (26.5 x 46)/42 = 29.02
- 10/46 - (26.5 x 46)/10 = 121.9

11-28T cassette with a 34-50T dual crankring
- 28/34 - (26.5 x 34)/28 = 32.18 ... a 31/34 - (26.5 x 34)/31 = 29.06 ... a 32/34 - (26.5 x 34)/32 = 28.16
- 11/50 - (26.5 x 50)/11 = 120.45

As you can see from the above calculations that the SRAM XX1 10-42T cassette with a 46T single crankring setup is very similar to an 11-31T cassette with a 34-50T dual crankring setup. The benefits of the single crankring are
- Better Q or at least easier to obtain a better Q
- less complexity
- left lever is a brake lever
- no issues with chain drop due to mech over shifting
- the rear derailleur has been optimised for the 10-42T cassette
- one less cable to deal with
- the XX1 groupset is lighter than the SRAM Red groupset (I believe that it is 20gms lighter)
- the crankring has been optimised for single setup, especially as there are no ramping and pinning requirements
- and there are probably other benefits

thanks KL
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