Shimano - 11/36 Mtn Cassette Road Compatible



alfeng

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Quote: Originally Posted by KLabs .
Hi CAMPYBOB, interesting ...

Let's have a look at the gearing ratios of say a SRAM XX1 10-42T cassette with a 46T single crankring and an 11-28T cassette with a 34-50T dual crankring.
Specifically 42/46 and 10/46, and 28/34 and 11/50 ...
Formula is ... Drive wheel diameter (26.5") x front crankring divided by rear sprocket{C}{C}{C}

SRAM XX1 10-42T cassette with a 46T single crankring ...
- 42/46 - (26.5 x 46)/42 = 29.02
- 10/46 - (26.5 x 46)/10 = 121.9

11-28T cassette with a 34-50T dual crankring
- 28/34 - (26.5 x 34)/28 = 32.18 ... a 31/34 - (26.5 x 34)/31 = 29.06 ... a 32/34 - (26.5 x 34)/32 = 28.16
- 11/50 - (26.5 x 50)/11 = 120.45

As you can see from the above calculations that the SRAM XX1 10-42T cassette with a 46T single crankring setup is very similar to an 11-31T cassette with a 34-50T dual crankring setup. The benefits of the single crankring are
- Better Q or at least easier to obtain a better Q
- less complexity
- left lever is a brake lever
- no issues with chain drop due to mech over shifting
- the rear derailleur has been optimised for the 10-42T cassette
- one less cable to deal with
- the XX1 groupset is lighter than the SRAM Red groupset (I believe that it is 20gms lighter)
- the crankring has been optimised for single setup, especially as there are no ramping and pinning requirements
- and there are probably other benefits

thanks KL
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FYI. It is very difficult-if-not-impossible to throw-or-drop a chain on a Campagnolo Double which has been set up properly.
 

Eichers

Member
Sep 17, 2010
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Quote: Originally Posted by alfeng .
FYI. It is very difficult-if-not-impossible to throw-or-drop a chain on a Campagnolo Double which has been set up properly.

Hi alfeng, yes, you would hope so...

Although, if that was absolutely so, why do they make chain drop catchers, such as ...
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/s?q=chain+drop
http://forums.cervelo.com/forums/t/9513.aspx
etc, etc

thanks KL
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CAMPYBOB

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
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"Although, if that was absolutely so, why do they make chain drop catchers, such as ..."

Chain catchers are a Luxembourg plot so that Andy can win the Tour and be a happy Brony!

Some teams are using chain catchers with EPS/Di groups on smooth roads. It's a cheap and light weight insurance policy.

Like Alf said though, a righteous setup on a mechanical 39-53 and you almost have to intentionally try to foul a shift in order to get the chain to drop. A max wrap slamshift onto the little ring at full pedal RPM's/power as you perfectly hit the culvert hump in the middle of the turn so hard you jump the rear wheel? Yeah...I've dumped a chain doing that.
 

Eichers

Member
Sep 17, 2010
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Quote: Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .
...
Chain catchers are a Luxembourg plot so that Andy can win the Tour and be a happy Brony!
Some teams are using chain catchers with EPS/Di groups on smooth roads. It's a cheap and lightweight insurance policy.

Like Alf said though, a righteous setup ...

Hi CAMPYBOB, interesting, so chain catchers are a conspiracy and unrighteous, and dropping a chain should never happen if it's setup 100% correctly even though they are used by PRO Cycling teams as a cheap and lightweight insurance policy (who you would think would have a 100% setup - even the teams with campag)
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I suppose with an 11T/39T you can easily ride at over 40kph so that would minimise using the 53T
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Well, all that does is make the simpler SRAM XX1 10-42T setup even more desirable. It eliminates the issue of me, LBS, or Pro team getting it wrong
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There is one area that the SRAM XX1 10-42T setup is not so good and that is for the final sprint. The cadence gaps are/would be a little large
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The SRAM XX1 10-42T 11spd setup also works on a 10spd/130 wheel using their specially designed freehub ... very clever
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thanks KL
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Annabelle LL

New Member
Aug 30, 2013
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Um die LEDs zu verbergen und ein sanfteres Licht zu erzielen, verwenden wir lichtdurchlässiges Mattglas. Innen kommen Epistar Hochleistungs-LEDs zum Einsatz. Diese LEDs bieten eine Lichtausbeute von bis zu 110 lm/W und überzeugen durch ihre lange Nutzungsdauer. LED-Glühlampen China Um die LEDs zu verbergen und ein sanfteres Licht zu erzielen, verwenden wir lichtdurchlässiges Mattglas. Innen setzen wir überdurchschnittliche viele Epistar SMD 2835 LEDs ein, um Blendenflecke zu vermeiden, das Licht angenehmer zu gestalten, die Lichtausbeute zu erhöhen und die Nutzungsdauer zu verlängern.
 

Eichers

Member
Sep 17, 2010
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Quote: Originally Posted by litespeedguy .
Just recently heard that Shimano has a mountain bike cassette that is compatible for a road bike and has a high end at 36 teeth - is this true ??

Hi litespeedguy, as mentioned in a previous post, it was true before Shimano realized it was true
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If you would like to try it with a 39-53 crankset then this thread should/will be helpful ... http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/477148/an-alternative-to-using-a-compact-crank-set

An 11-36T cassette with a 39-53 standard (130 BCD) crankset will give about the same gearing as an 11-30T cassette with a 34-53 compact (110 BCD) crankset
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thanks KL
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Eichers

Member
Sep 17, 2010
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Hi All, thought I would share this conversation (from another forum) about Campag SR11 chain drop and chain catchers was interesting ... thanks KL
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Quote: I just replaced my old Record 11 old chain with a new Record 11 chain using the Campagnolo tool. The master link moves freely and the drive chain was shifting perfectly before I changed the chain. Chain length on the new chain is identical to the old chain. Now, at seemingly random and infrequent moments, the chain drops when I downshift in the front. I reread the front derailleur instruction manual and reoriented the cage slightly and took out all slack from the cable (though there really wasn't any slack to begin with). At mile 91.5 of yesterday's century, I downshifted quickly for a hill and my chain dropped, so I lost the group I was riding with. I'm frustrated...any suggestions? I'm considering a chain catcher but it would be great to just set up the front derailleur in a better way to avoid the occasional chain drop. Thank in advance to the experts on the forum.
Quote: The same thing used to happen to me each time I changed chain....I do not know why it was happening :?: After some kms on the new chain it got right = no chain drop I bought a Rotor chain catcher last year, never missed a shift anymore.
Sorry for additional off topic question:
is there a difference between Chorus and Record chain in performance and durability?
I always run Chorus chains and sprockets on my Record group. Last time I bought Record chain.
1) it seemed to me more loud
2) the Record chain is almost dead after 2500kms, the Chorus used to last 3500km
Anyone having similar experiences?

Quote: Campagnolo make the FD-SR003 chain catcher but it requires a braze-on FD.
Quote: Are you using EPS or mechanical? Are you using Campagnolo cranks and rings? Even without a 'matched set' there should be no problem. In my experience, a properly-adjusted derailleur (either Record or Dura-Ace) would never drop a shift
icon_wink.gif
. Having said that, anyone who races without a chainkeeper is crazy. If you are running a Campagnolo derailleur, I recommend the Campagnolo chainkeeper. It is light and looks really good.
Quote: First, a chain catcher is a must for any carbon frame...it will not improve your shifting but rather simply act as an additional limit barrier that will keep your chin from dropping; Second, the drop you are experiencing (assuming all adjustments are correct as you describe) may be due to a new chain meshing with worn chainrings. Keep in mind that your old stretched chain created its own peaks, valley, snags burrs, etc on your chainring teeth, over time. Your new chain must now mesh with the existing wear on your chainrings. The drop or mis-shifts you are experiencing may be due to your chain simply getting caught on some of these imperfections, which results in your chain slapping over rather then gently shifting over, during the process of a shift from large to small chainring. As your chain rotates around your chainring and you activate your shifter, even small snags in your chainrings can cause the chain to jump rather the glide, resulting in the jump during a shift that could cause your chain to drop.

There are two solutions to this issue:
First, go easy on hard shifts during your first 100 miles after installing a new chain and let the chain mesh to your chainrings
Second, inspect your chainrings and sand or grind down any burrs or snags. I don't know how worn your chainrings are but these recs are assuming that your 11 speed gruppo is fairly new and the chainrings are far from being worn and needing replacement.
 

CAMPYBOB

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
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"I'm considering a chain catcher but it would be great to just set up the front derailleur in a better way to avoid the occasional chain drop."

So...adjust the derailleur. Following the instructions provided by Campagnolo's website and included with every chain and front derailleur purchased yield shifting that's as good as it gets. Advanced Rocket Inertial Guidance System Design is the first door on your right.




"The same thing used to happen to me each time I changed chain....I do not know why it was happening :?:"

Hmmm? Lackofscrewdriveritis or trashed gear tooth profile.




"2) the Record chain is almost dead after 2500kms, the Chorus used to last 3500km
Anyone having similar experiences?"

Both Record and Chorus chains are absolutely worn, stretched trash at 2000 miles if you ride with more than 8 Watts of power output or climb anything taller than the curb. Keep the chain/gears clean and well lubricated and toss them in the trash often. Or learn to weld and design modernist furniture from the trashed chain collection all Campyphiles rapidly collect.


"Campagnolo make the FD-SR003 chain catcher but it requires a braze-on FD."

Campy's chain catcher will mount to a braze-on front derailleur that is, in turn, mounted to a clamp-on band adapter such as Campagnolo's own band or an aftermarket band like 4za's.




"First, go easy on hard shifts during your first 100 miles after installing a new chain and let the chain mesh to your chainrings"

Great advice. Allow the chain to bed itself in. And check the alignment of your derailleurs, check their limits, check the mounting height, inspect/clean/lubricate your cables and go over their setup instructions, again, if you're having poor shifting performance.

Frankly, I can not imagine a mechanically shifted derailleur system working better than a Campagnolo groupset that is set up properly.
 

Eichers

Member
Sep 17, 2010
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Hi All, this is another couple of posts (from another forum) about CampagNolNO SR and Sram Red Yaw that I thought was interesting ... thanks KL
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Quote: I have Red on one of my bikes and the Yaw is the bomb. Adjusted properly there iS ZERO rub in ANY combination. Pretty awesome. I really love my 2013 Super Record, but I have the say the yaw no trim thing is a marvel.
Quote: My Sram Red Yaw doesn't have any chain rub - at all, zero, none, zilch - it shifts perfectly, and I'm not using SRAM Chainrings. 50/34 paired with an 11-28 and singingly smooth on older Red levers, which means I get an empty 'trim' which makes no difference. I'm quite content with it. Shifts are fast in both directions and not at all any different if I'm descending or climbing up a steep pitch. The only time I've ever had chain drop (which was protected by the chain catcher) was in an early ride when I set it up long, long ago, and it was a bit too aggressive of a shift and kick at the same time that caused it. Since then? I can kick and shift aggressively with no repercussions.
DA 9000 is pretty awesome, no doubt about that.
I'm not debating other groups, this topic is purely about the SRAM Red FD.
 

fernywombat

New Member
Oct 27, 2016
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I'm looking to Everest a climb in the next couple months with 2 x 20% pinches in the middle it (it's a good climb otherwise..). I've tried this with an 11-28 but after 10 reps couldn't drag myself up these pinches for an 11th time (I need to do 27 reps). Sooooo...... I've just had a talk to the lbs guys and we're going to throw an 11-36 mtb cassette onto my road bike as an experiment to see if we can turn it into an Everesting Machine. I'll let you now how it goes. They think they can do it pretty cheaply so I'll see what the outcome is.