Shimano 7sp cassette on 8/9/10sp Freehub?



A

Andy M

Guest
I have an old Shimano 105 7sp freehub that does not have the wide groove
on the freehub body. All grooves are the same width, and the hub is
labelled FH-1051. I have a replacement HG70 cassette, which does not
fit, because it needs that wide groove.

Are the body widths for 8/9/10-sp hubs still the same as for 7sp?
ie would my 7sp HG70 fit onto a more modern FH-5600 or FH-5501 hub?
(these are 2 that my friendly online store has in stock)

Failing that, can anyone recommend a dealer that would have a compatible
7sp cassette?

Thanks,
Andy.
 
Andy M wrote:
> I have an old Shimano 105 7sp freehub that does not have the wide groove
> on the freehub body. All grooves are the same width, and the hub is
> labelled FH-1051. I have a replacement HG70 cassette, which does not
> fit, because it needs that wide groove.


I'd call it a narrow spline, but its the same difference.

> Are the body widths for 8/9/10-sp hubs still the same as for 7sp?


No, they are wider. A 7 speed hub can be used on these with the
appropriate spacer, though you will make the overall width of the wheel
wider so you need to make sure it will still fit in your frame.

> ie would my 7sp HG70 fit onto a more modern FH-5600 or FH-5501 hub?


Yes, with the spacer noted above.

> Failing that, can anyone recommend a dealer that would have a compatible
> 7sp cassette?


Sorry, that's not going to be easy.

Your options without resorting to metalwork are:
Replace the freehub body - you can get a Shimano 7 speed freehub body
which will fit your hub and fit the cassette. They come off relatively
straightforwardly if you have a big enough allen key. The part number is
3-30H98010 or equivalent (sneakily I have one to hand which I picked up
for £3.99 when Halfords were getting rid of them last year).

Replace the hub or wheel - obviously not as economic.

Finally, there's metalwork - you can get out the angle grinder and take
off one of the offending splines (or just narrow it as required if
you're good with an angle grinder).

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA
 
Jim Price wrote:
> No, they are wider. A 7 speed hub can be used on these with the


D'oh! that should read "A 7 speed cassette".

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA
 
Jim Price wrote:


> Your options without resorting to metalwork are:
> Replace the freehub body - you can get a Shimano 7 speed freehub body
> which will fit your hub and fit the cassette. They come off relatively
> straightforwardly if you have a big enough allen key. The part number is
> 3-30H98010 or equivalent (sneakily I have one to hand which I picked up
> for £3.99 when Halfords were getting rid of them last year).



Thanks for the quick reply!


Are all 7 speed Shimano freehub bodies interchangable?

I can find STX/STX-RC 7sp replacement bodies, but none from a product
line normally associated with a road bike.

Swapping the freehub body certainly seems the most economical way
forward, given that I don't really want to resort to metalwork.



Andy.
 
Andy M wrote:
> I have an old Shimano 105 7sp freehub that does not have the wide groove
> on the freehub body. All grooves are the same width, and the hub is
> labelled FH-1051. I have a replacement HG70 cassette, which does not
> fit, because it needs that wide groove.
>
> Are the body widths for 8/9/10-sp hubs still the same as for 7sp?
> ie would my 7sp HG70 fit onto a more modern FH-5600 or FH-5501 hub?
> (these are 2 that my friendly online store has in stock)
>
> Failing that, can anyone recommend a dealer that would have a compatible
> 7sp cassette?
>
> Thanks,
> Andy.



You have a Uniglide freehub body and hyperglide cassette. Sadly
unilglide is no longer available, as Jim says you could modify the
hyperglide cassette, it;s not that hard if you separate the sprockets
providing you can do this. Or you can replace the freehub body with a
hyperglide one. Another difference is that Uniglide had the lst sprocket
screw on with no separate lock ring, that is the thread is on the
outside of the freehub body and not the inside like hyprglide. Some
hyperglide freehub bodies had both to accommodate both types of
cassette. Replacing the freehub body is not difficult, I have done it,
my hyperglide one cost about £15 from Halfords, you might get a second
had HG 7 speed hub on eBay and salvage the body. I have a spare hub but
not sure atm if I want to part with it. Sheldon brown has instructions,
or ask if you need more help.
 
Andy M wrote:
> Jim Price wrote:
>
>
>> Your options without resorting to metalwork are:
>> Replace the freehub body - you can get a Shimano 7 speed freehub body
>> which will fit your hub and fit the cassette. They come off relatively
>> straightforwardly if you have a big enough allen key. The part number
>> is 3-30H98010 or equivalent (sneakily I have one to hand which I
>> picked up for £3.99 when Halfords were getting rid of them last year).

>
>
> Thanks for the quick reply!
>
>
> Are all 7 speed Shimano freehub bodies interchangable?


Not absolutely all, but apart from some exotic ones (like silent clutch,
which came later than your hub) they are. For further details, look here:
http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#transplant

> I can find STX/STX-RC 7sp replacement bodies, but none from a product
> line normally associated with a road bike.


They will work OK. There is no difference in the freehub - Shimano just
can't be bothered to print the labels up to make packaging for "road
specific" ones. On the drive side, there is no need for extra seals as
the bearings are pretty well protected by the rest of the machinery in
the vicinity.

> Swapping the freehub body certainly seems the most economical way
> forward, given that I don't really want to resort to metalwork.


JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA
 
I fitted a 7 speed cassette to an 8/9/10 freehub by simply ripping one
of the spacers out of the old cassette and placing it inside of the
cassette on the freehub; works fine.
 
MartinM wrote:
> I fitted a 7 speed cassette to an 8/9/10 freehub by simply ripping one
> of the spacers out of the old cassette and placing it inside of the
> cassette on the freehub; works fine.


I wouldn't recommend using the plastic ones for this. The metal ones
should work fine.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA
 
Jim Price wrote:
> MartinM wrote:
>
>> I fitted a 7 speed cassette to an 8/9/10 freehub by simply ripping one
>> of the spacers out of the old cassette and placing it inside of the
>> cassette on the freehub; works fine.

>
>
> I wouldn't recommend using the plastic ones for this. The metal ones
> should work fine.
>
> JimP
>


The spacer from my UG cassette is plastic. I was rather surprised.

I took a quick peek inside my current hub, and it looks like a star
shaped bolt head that should take a 10mm Hex key (at multiple angles).
Will do the sensible thing, get a hex key first and remove the current
body before ordering the replacement HG freehub body.



Andy.
 
Hmmm - store that has 7sp replacement body in stock says: "Shimano
freehubs are generally not chop and change, as you'd think they are.
A particular hub has a particular freehub body, you may simply have to
replace the original one that was removed with the same item"

And others say that they are interchangeable (at least within the same
range).

I fear this is gonna end up a very expensive way to get old bike
roadworthy. Certainly STX seems to be the only 7sp variant available.


--
Andy.
 
Andy M wrote:
> Hmmm - store that has 7sp replacement body in stock says: "Shimano
> freehubs are generally not chop and change, as you'd think they are.
> A particular hub has a particular freehub body, you may simply have to
> replace the original one that was removed with the same item"


They are chop and change, sort of. Withe the exception of very early
hubs, and dura-ace, they are all interchangeable. The tricky bit maybe
getting the right cones to fit as those designs can be slightly
different. I have done exactly as you are doing, changing from UG to HG
and it went fine without a hitch. I used a cheap 7sp freehub off an old
MTB wheel and it continues to work just fine in the ultegra hub.

I also have STX shifters. If you are going to change the freehub, you
may as well get an 8/9 speed one and spring the frame a little. Then
you have the option to get 8/9 speed shifters of which there is a
bigger range. This is what I intend to do in the near future.

I initially went HG because UG sprockets are getting like hens teeth
and changing them is a bit of a trial.

...d

>
> And others say that they are interchangeable (at least within the same
> range).
>
> I fear this is gonna end up a very expensive way to get old bike
> roadworthy. Certainly STX seems to be the only 7sp variant available.
>
>
> --
> Andy.
 
Andy M wrote:
>
> Hmmm - store that has 7sp replacement body in stock says: "Shimano
> freehubs are generally not chop and change, as you'd think they are.
> A particular hub has a particular freehub body, you may simply have to
> replace the original one that was removed with the same item"


They do have different part numbers, but there is some agreement amongst
those who don't work for Shimano that the part numbers usually refer to
the hub seals (you should be able to use the one from the old freehub
body if the new one doesn't fit) and you may have to add/leave out a
spacer (but you'll have two, given you started with two freehub bodies).

> And others say that they are interchangeable (at least within the same
> range).


Is that other bike shops or other people? I think Mseries of this parish
has changed a uniglide for a hyperglide freehub back in 2003, and he
didn't report any problems. I've done 7speed to 8speed HG with so little
fuss I only have the old parts as evidence to remind me it happened.

> I fear this is gonna end up a very expensive way to get old bike
> roadworthy. Certainly STX seems to be the only 7sp variant available.


Well, its your call. Buy it from a shop that will fit it for you for
free or who will let you bring it back if it doesn't fit. You will be
able to tell if it fits by these 2 tests:

1. Bolt it on (with a suitable number of spacers) and see if it rotates
freely;

2. see if either the old or new seal fits in the hub and around your
existing bearing cones. You won't even have to get it greasy to try this
(although knowing Shimano, it will be a bit oily to start with).

If it fails these 2 tests, put it back in the bag and take it back to
the shop for a refund.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA
 
David Martin wrote:
> Andy M wrote:
>
>>Hmmm - store that has 7sp replacement body in stock says: "Shimano
>>freehubs are generally not chop and change, as you'd think they are.
>>A particular hub has a particular freehub body, you may simply have to
>>replace the original one that was removed with the same item"

>
>
> They are chop and change, sort of. Withe the exception of very early
> hubs, and dura-ace, they are all interchangeable. The tricky bit maybe
> getting the right cones to fit as those designs can be slightly
> different. I have done exactly as you are doing, changing from UG to HG
> and it went fine without a hitch. I used a cheap 7sp freehub off an old
> MTB wheel and it continues to work just fine in the ultegra hub.


It's the 'very early hubs' bit that concerns me, but I'm assuming this
is more applicable to 6sp.
I'm down to 2 choices... either just go for it and replace the hub body,
or squeeze an 8/9sp 130mm hub into a 12mm hole (which I'm guessing must
be do-able, possibly by removing 1 spacer/washer on the axle).
Obviously replacing entire hub means rebuilding wheel, which I'd prefer
not to have to do.
>
> I initially went HG because UG sprockets are getting like hens teeth
> and changing them is a bit of a trial.


Tell me about it. Not just UG cassettes, but anything 7sp for 129mm
hubs is now out of stock in most places. I guess I'm not supposed to
'upgrade' or renovate an older bike, but throw it in the skip and buy a
new one!

Think I'm gonna just have to risk it, and if things don't work, then
flog it on ebay, along with the 7sp HG cassette that is sitting on my
workbench.

--
Andy.
 
"Andy M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Tell me about it. Not just UG cassettes, but anything 7sp for 129mm hubs
> is now out of stock in most places. I guess I'm not supposed to 'upgrade'
> or renovate an older bike, but throw it in the skip and buy a new one!


Is it a steel frame? If so, respace it to 130mm and you've then got the full
choice of new hubs to play with again. The upgrade path is there...

cheers,
clive
 
Andy M wrote:
> David Martin wrote:
>> Andy M wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm - store that has 7sp replacement body in stock says: "Shimano
>>> freehubs are generally not chop and change, as you'd think they are.
>>> A particular hub has a particular freehub body, you may simply have to
>>> replace the original one that was removed with the same item"

>>
>>
>> They are chop and change, sort of. Withe the exception of very early
>> hubs, and dura-ace, they are all interchangeable. The tricky bit maybe
>> getting the right cones to fit as those designs can be slightly
>> different. I have done exactly as you are doing, changing from UG to HG
>> and it went fine without a hitch. I used a cheap 7sp freehub off an old
>> MTB wheel and it continues to work just fine in the ultegra hub.

>
> It's the 'very early hubs' bit that concerns me, but I'm assuming this
> is more applicable to 6sp.
> I'm down to 2 choices... either just go for it and replace the hub body,
> or squeeze an 8/9sp 130mm hub into a 12mm hole (which I'm guessing must
> be do-able, possibly by removing 1 spacer/washer on the axle).
> Obviously replacing entire hub means rebuilding wheel, which I'd prefer
> not to have to do.
>>
>> I initially went HG because UG sprockets are getting like hens teeth
>> and changing them is a bit of a trial.

>
> Tell me about it. Not just UG cassettes, but anything 7sp for 129mm
> hubs is now out of stock in most places. I guess I'm not supposed to
> 'upgrade' or renovate an older bike, but throw it in the skip and buy a
> new one!
>
> Think I'm gonna just have to risk it, and if things don't work, then
> flog it on ebay, along with the 7sp HG cassette that is sitting on my
> workbench.
>


What sprockets are on the HG cassette ? Let me know if you decide to
sell, I might have it if it suits and is the right price (I just got one
from Settle for £16.99)
 
I found a 1055 freehub, which was the 105 series a few years later than
mine, and is one of the UG/HG compaitble hubs. Fitted it OK, and cones
fit too. Only missing 1 seal where the cassette lockring goes, but
should be able to fashion one myself.

All I need to do now is adjust the 7sp SIS so it finds the right cogs
and then take it out for a road test.


Thanks to everyone for all the helpful and prompt advice! :)

--
AndyM.
 
Andy M wrote:

Well just been out for a 10km blat along the main cycle path between
here and the next town. I can safely say that the new freehub body idea
was a good one. The body is even UG compatible, should I ever feel the
urge to downgrade to obsolete technology.
Everything is in perfect working order, all adjusted, and I'm sure this
is the first time the indexing has properly selected all 7 cogs. Even
more amazing was that all the adjustments I made at home were perfect,
with no trimming needed on the road!

Now I have a working roadbike again (in addition to mountainbike) for
the first time in over 5yrs :)

Thanks again for the advice!


PS out of interest, I bought this bike about 15yrs ago from a
shop/mailorder place called Freewheel. IIRC they used to have a
catalogue in WHSmith, and a couple of shops in London. Anyone know what
became of them?

--
AndyM.
 
Andy M wrote:
> Andy M wrote:
>
> Well just been out for a 10km blat along the main cycle path between
> here and the next town. I can safely say that the new freehub body idea
> was a good one. The body is even UG compatible, should I ever feel the
> urge to downgrade to obsolete technology.
> Everything is in perfect working order, all adjusted, and I'm sure this
> is the first time the indexing has properly selected all 7 cogs. Even
> more amazing was that all the adjustments I made at home were perfect,
> with no trimming needed on the road!
>
> Now I have a working roadbike again (in addition to mountainbike) for
> the first time in over 5yrs :)
>
> Thanks again for the advice!
>
>
> PS out of interest, I bought this bike about 15yrs ago from a
> shop/mailorder place called Freewheel. IIRC they used to have a
> catalogue in WHSmith, and a couple of shops in London. Anyone know what
> became of them?


The shops have largely been taken over by Cycle Surgery I think - at
least the one in West Hampstead has. The last catalog I saw was called
"Freewheel Gearshift", and since then the Freewheel bit seems to have
gone missing, so my suspicion is that the last vestiges of the outfit
are here:

http://www.gearshift.co.uk/acatalog/Contact_us.html#aCONTACT

I still have the 1989 catalogue hanging around somewhere.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA
 
In article <[email protected]>, Andy M
([email protected]) wrote:

> PS out of interest, I bought this bike about 15yrs ago from a
> shop/mailorder place called Freewheel. IIRC they used to have a
> catalogue in WHSmith, and a couple of shops in London. Anyone know what
> became of them?


Which is also where the entity which eventually became my fixer came
from, mail-order in 1984. They were strongly connected with Madison.
Don't think they mad it into the Internet era, possibly by trying to
expand too much (though that doesn't seem to have done FW Evans bid for
world domination any harm). I think they had shops in Birmingham, Leeds
and Sheffield too - did the latter morph into the current Gearshift
operation?

As Jim notes the original shop - Beta Bikes - has been Borged by Cycle
Surgery, who also seem to haven taken over Yellow Jersey in the Chalk
Farm Road.

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Ernesto, give me that Kit-Kat, or I will kill you.
 
Dave Larrington wrote:
>............................... I think they had shops in Birmingham, Leeds
> and Sheffield too - did the latter morph into the current Gearshift
> operation?
>


Yup, used to be a branch in Headingley, Leeds and in the city centre,
corner of Boar Lane and Lower Briggate, next door but one to Watson &
Cairns, a much better bike shop that is now a pub.
 

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