Shimano Alfine 8 Internal Rear Hub - Reliability? Durability? Functionality?

[Tom \Johnny Sunset\ Sherman]

Chalo Colina wrote:
> landotter wrote:
>> That's just tire dust and asbestos from the road AFAIK, you get it
>> anywhere it rains. I'm still pretty convinced that, though Chalo's
>> theory is interesting--it's simply about rain and dirt and brand of
>> brake shoe.
>
> I was never ablke to discern a correlation between type of brake bad
> and amount of abrasion-- outside of the horrible 1990s Shimano rim-
> grater pads....

The late 1990's SRAM pads (at least what came on ESP 5.0 and 7.0) were
also very bad about getting abrasive material embedded in the pad face.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
A Real Cyclist [TM] keeps at least one bicycle in the bedroom.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 

[Jay Beattie]

On Oct 6, 2:50 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>> For those interested in the subject rather than the
> >>> assertions:
> >>>http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
> > John Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> From that I assume one can still buy asbestos-based friction
> >> materials in the US.
> >> Given the availability of substitutes, and the bans in many
> >> other developed countries, that seems to be taking the
> >> principles of laissez faire capitalism a little too far.
> >> With our heavy breathing in traffic, asbestos from motor vehicle
> >> brakes should be a concern for cyclists.
> Jay Beattie wrote:
> > Don't think so. See:
> >http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a716100634~db=all~ju...
> > Pads typically used chrysotile, which is not associated with
> > mesothelioma, the form of asbestos related cancer caused by low-dose
> > exposure. I know of no case of bystander cancern from brake pads.
> > Worry about radon in your basement -- or about getting hit by a car or
> > aspartame. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Wow. I can manage in traffic with cars.
> Are Portland cyclists often hit by aspartame?

D'oh! O.K., Splenda -- a Ford Splenda (high mileage, low calories).
-- Jay Beattie.

 

[Peter Cole]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:58:34 -0700, Ted Bennett
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>>
>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>> no asbestos used in automotive brakes for
>>>>> decades now.
>>>> Absolutely not true, not even close.
>>> For those interested in the subject rather than the assertions:
>>>
>>> http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Carl Fogel
>
>> It's okay to say it, Carl. It's not impolite.
>>
>> jim beam is wrong, demonstrably.
>
> Dear Ted,
>
> And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right

Sure, Carl. Whatever.


> as the yes-it-is,
> absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
> either poster.

I always post cites, I didn't here. It's off topic and there's plenty of
info on the subject with a cursory search.


> It's hard to say which is more irritating, the reflexive snarling or
> the preference for blanket assertions without explanation.

The name-calling is my favorite part.

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Kerry Montgomery" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Dorfus Dippintush <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Michael Press wrote:
> >> > In article
> >> > <[email protected]>
> >> > ,
> >> > Andrew Martin <[email protected]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Oct 5, 6:59 pm, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>> On Oct 5, 1:11 pm, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> landotter wrote:
> >> >>>>> Very few people actually wear out rims that don't ride either off
> >> >>>>> road
> >> >>>>> or serious road mileage. Rerimming isn't expensive or hard. My city
> >> >>>>> bike can take a 610mm ERD Alex box rim that runs $18 if I ever wear
> >> >>>>> them out. I used to run cantis in winter slush--with Koolstops, I
> >> >>>>> never had a problem stopping or with excessive rim wear.
> >> >>>> That varies a lot by geographic location. When I was a bike
> >> >>>> mechanic
> >> >>>> in Austin, I never saw significant rim wear except on the sloppiest
> >> >>>> mountain bikes. When I lived in Seattle, it seemed that everybody
> >> >>>> who
> >> >>>> rode regularly in the rain eventually wore out their rims. Some did
> >> >>>> so every year.
> >> >>>> Austin and Seattle get a very similar amount of total annual
> >> >>>> precipitation, but in a very dissimilar number of rainy days.
> >> >>>> Seattle
> >> >>>> gets about 200 days per year of steady drizzle that has the effect
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> dispersing grit and grime all over everything. Austin gets most of
> >> >>>> its rain as a few tremendous thunderstorms that purge the streets
> >> >>>> clean. And Seattle's soil is granite-based, while Austin's is
> >> >>>> limestone-based. By spending a lot more wet days coated in more
> >> >>>> (and
> >> >>>> more abrasive) grit, Seattle riders have a much larger opportunity
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> grind down their rim sidewalls.
> >> >>> That sounds sorta logical, but is road grit caused by soil or the
> >> >>> erosion of pavement? Or is it that the pavement is made with local
> >> >>> rock, so the grit varies?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Never had a problem in Chicago's winters when I ran Koolstops for
> >> >>> over
> >> >>> three years on the same bike, know what the soil is like there? It's
> >> >>> limestone here, btw.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Also--what kind of pads did the offending bikes use? I'm not
> >> >>> discounting your theory one bit, but curious about other variables.-
> >> >>> Hide quoted text -
> >> >>>
> >> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> >> I've lived (and rode) in Chicago and Seattle, and I think the
> >> >> noticeable thing about Seattle rims is the constant black slurry on
> >> >> the brakes all winter. It's pretty gritty and makes changing your
> >> >> times a complete mess. I never noticed that in Chicago which always
> >> >> had colder, dryer winters. I've blown out 2 rims in Seattle. I don't
> >> >> think I've come close anywhere else. I've switched to a disc rain
> >> >> bike, so no more of that mess. Sorta hard to ride home on a blown
> >> >> rim.
> >> >>
> >> >> As for what the "slurry" stuff is - who knows, but Chalo seems to at
> >> >> least be in the ballpark.
> >> >
> >> > Volcanic? Lots of volcanos up there that were active over the
> >> > eons. Plenty of glass in volcanic dust.
> >> >
> >> Could be carbon from car tyres maybe? I mean car tyres do wear. Could
> >> even be carbon from car exhausts.
> >
> > Tire powder and oil are everywhere.
> > The question is what makes Seattle different,
> > in addition to the year around rain.
> >
> > --
> > Michael Press
>
> Is Seattle like Portland in its use of sand during the winter? I think
> Chicago uses salt, so the stuff picked up by rims and brakes could be pretty
> different.
> Kerry

Seattle is probably like Vancouver: salt isn't a huge, persistent
concern, because it's needed so rarely.

Portland, even more so,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

 

[jim beam]

Tom Ace wrote:
> On Oct 6, 2:23 pm, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The "black" in the black **** all over Seattle bike wheels is almost
>> certainly a mixture of pulverized rim and brake pad. But it's the
>> result of abrasion, not the cause.
>
> Yup. It's very much like the crud that accumulates on climbing
> rope from running across aluminum climbing gear, and which then
> accumulates on your palms from handling the rope. Dirt embedded
> in the rope fibers increases the abrasion.
>
> Tom Ace
>

indeed.

 

[Dan Burkhart]

On Oct 4, 7:24 pm, Dan Burkhart <Dan.Burkhart.2xy...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau Wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Fitz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > See:
>
> > >http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/
>
> > > Comments are appreciated!
>
> > Has anyone established what the differences are between the Alfine and
> > the Nexus Red Line 8-speed hubs yet?
>
> > My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but created
> > by
> > Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a UCI-legal
> > cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.
>
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau [email protected]://www.wiredcola.com/
> > "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> > to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
>
> The guys at Shimano Canada tell me that the internals of the Alfine
> are identical to the Nexus, and the internals of the premium Nexus are
> no different than the regular one. They just added a red stripe and a
> lighter hub shell and upgraded the bearings a bit.

That's false. The red band version has an extra row of roller
bearings surrounding the outermost gear ring.

I'm ready to believe the Alfine is the same internally as the red band
model, but haven't been inside an Alfine.

Both of my own Nexus 8s are the bottom of the line model, and I liked
them just fine when I was riding them.

> Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus
> with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.

And if you don't mind waiting. Alfine still hasn't made it to the
U.S. aftermarket, though we keep bugging our distributors about it.

Sheldon "Al Feenay" Brown
+----------------------------------------+
| If you ride at night without lights |
| You are liable to be eaten by a grue. |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com
Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
http://sheldonbrown.com

Hmm. OK, I only have the say so of the Shimano tech on that one. It was all I could do to resist the urge to open up the alfine to have a look for myself, but being a new unit, I did not wish to mess with it, and furthermore, if there is a mechanical problem with them I wanted Shimano to know about it.
Now, looking at the exploded veiw of both models, I can see one row of roller bearings on both. Here is the exploded view of the 8R20
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SG/EV-SG-8R20_BR-IM70-R-2236B_v1_m56577569830609191.pdf
And here is the link to the 8R25.
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/SG/EV-SG-8R25_BR-IM70-R-2315D_v1_m56577569830609192.pdf
Could you please point out where the extra row of bearings is, cause I seem to be missing something?
The Alfine is in the Shimano spring order catalogue here in Canada, so hopefully we will have some aftermarket units by March.

 

[[email protected]]

On Oct 6, 5:11 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:58:34 -0700, Ted Bennett
>
> >jim beam is wrong, demonstrably.
>
> Dear Ted,
>
> And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right as the yes-it-is,
> absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
> either poster.

??? I, for one, am having trouble parsing that sentence.

It seemed to me that Peter Cole was demonstrably right. I don't
understand your apparently negative attitude toward that statement;
nor your apparently negative attitude toward Peter.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:06:33 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>On Oct 6, 5:11 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:58:34 -0700, Ted Bennett
>>
>> >jim beam is wrong, demonstrably.
>>
>> Dear Ted,
>>
>> And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right as the yes-it-is,
>> absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
>> either poster.
>
>??? I, for one, am having trouble parsing that sentence.
>
>It seemed to me that Peter Cole was demonstrably right. I don't
>understand your apparently negative attitude toward that statement;
>nor your apparently negative attitude toward Peter.
>
>- Frank Krygowski

Dear Frank,

I bet it would look slightly more comprehensible with a comma after
right and the missing "shows" at the end. My editing of late has been
even worse than usual:

"And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right[,] as the yes-it-is,
absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
either poster [shows]."

But I can't say that I'm absolutely right about that mangled sentence.
It's just a guess at what happened when the trigger finger of a
careless mind got too close to the backspace key.

My point was that no, I don't think that Jim or Peter is right with
their yes-it-is, no-it-absolutely-isn't positions.

The article that I cited seems to say that practically no new cars
come with asbestos brakes nowadays (which makes Jim Beam sound right),
but that lots of aftermarket brakes do come with asbestos (which makes
Peter Cole sound right).

But anyone reading the exchange got nothing more than
asbestos-isn't-used-anymore versus you're-absolutely-wrong. Jim failed
to consider the after-market, while Peter seemed more interested in an
emphatic disagreement than in explaining his point. Jim is just as
quick or even quicker with similar replies that explain nothing.

So I'd say that neither of them were "right" or "wrong" and that
neither of them would concede an inch.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:06:33 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Oct 6, 5:11 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:58:34 -0700, Ted Bennett
>>>
>>>> jim beam is wrong, demonstrably.
>>> Dear Ted,
>>>
>>> And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right as the yes-it-is,
>>> absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
>>> either poster.
>> ??? I, for one, am having trouble parsing that sentence.
>>
>> It seemed to me that Peter Cole was demonstrably right. I don't
>> understand your apparently negative attitude toward that statement;
>> nor your apparently negative attitude toward Peter.
>>
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> I bet it would look slightly more comprehensible with a comma after
> right and the missing "shows" at the end. My editing of late has been
> even worse than usual:
>
> "And Peter Cole is demonstrably not as right[,] as the yes-it-is,
> absolutely-no-it-isn't back and forth that does little credit to
> either poster [shows]."
>
> But I can't say that I'm absolutely right about that mangled sentence.
> It's just a guess at what happened when the trigger finger of a
> careless mind got too close to the backspace key.
>
> My point was that no, I don't think that Jim or Peter is right with
> their yes-it-is, no-it-absolutely-isn't positions.
>
> The article that I cited seems to say that practically no new cars
> come with asbestos brakes nowadays (which makes Jim Beam sound right),
> but that lots of aftermarket brakes do come with asbestos (which makes
> Peter Cole sound right).
>
> But anyone reading the exchange got nothing more than
> asbestos-isn't-used-anymore versus you're-absolutely-wrong. Jim failed
> to consider the after-market, while Peter seemed more interested in an
> emphatic disagreement than in explaining his point. Jim is just as
> quick or even quicker with similar replies that explain nothing.
>
> So I'd say that neither of them were "right" or "wrong" and that
> neither of them would concede an inch.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

i'll concede that i didn't consider aftermarket, but even then, having
extensive experience with this stuff, and knowing from that experience
that any materials containing asbestos are labeled as such, most
visibly, i can tell you that i haven't seen asbestos used in normal
vehicle friction materials in decades.

btw, you cited current osha warnings - those are very much relevant in
that there are still vintage vehicles out there with their original
friction linings, but those warnings are not evidence of modern
applications.

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Oct 6, 11:49 am, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tire powder and oil are everywhere.
> The question is what makes Seattle different,
> in addition to the year around rain.

"Seattle Rain" is pretty much a myth. NYC has more rainy days per year
than Seattle.

Yes, it rained most of last week and is supposed to rain this
afternoon, but that's after a pretty dry and pleasant summer. I went
fenderless all summer, only wished I'd had them once.

 

[Peter Cole]

[email protected] wrote:

> My point was that no, I don't think that Jim or Peter is right with
> their yes-it-is, no-it-absolutely-isn't positions.
>
> The article that I cited seems to say that practically no new cars
> come with asbestos brakes nowadays (which makes Jim Beam sound right),
> but that lots of aftermarket brakes do come with asbestos (which makes
> Peter Cole sound right).
>
> But anyone reading the exchange got nothing more than
> asbestos-isn't-used-anymore versus you're-absolutely-wrong. Jim failed
> to consider the after-market, while Peter seemed more interested in an
> emphatic disagreement than in explaining his point. Jim is just as
> quick or even quicker with similar replies that explain nothing.
>
> So I'd say that neither of them were "right" or "wrong" and that
> neither of them would concede an inch.

If you say so.

"jim beam" declared asbestos hadn't been used in decades -- so it was no
longer an exposure threat.

"no asbestos used in automotive brakes for decades now."

I knew this was unlikely, since my late model shop manuals still warn
stridently about using compressed air on brakes, and cans of brake
cleaner have similar precautions (although they may have a vested
interest).

I went online to confirm my suspicions. I quickly found out that:
asbestos in brake products is not illegal in this country (attempts were
made, but fell to lobbyists), and a significant amount of asbestos brake
products are in service and regularly installed. I didn't see the point
in a distinction between factory original and after market since these
things are consumables. Even as new car components, asbestos brakes were
common into the 90's, which was when the almost-ban happened. So,
"decades" is stretching things a bit, anyway.

There were so many articles refuting the claim I didn't think it was
necessary to cite, but here are a couple I found (in 30 sec or so).
People here know I'm a prolific citer -- so good in fact that at least
one opponent whines that I can find anything to prove a point, even when
I'm wrong (of course he never cites). Here, I thought the issue was
black and white enough to not bother, I guess you didn't feel so and
disqualified me on a technicality, so here goes:

Article from year 2000 Seattle paper:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/uncivilaction/brks16.shtml

Short summary: there was a lot of asbestos in 2000

Another from 2007:
http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm

Short summary: there's still a lot of asbestos.

I don't think this NG really needs a scorekeeper, and if it did, you
would be far from my first choice.

 

[Peter Cole]

jim beam wrote:

"no asbestos used in automotive brakes for decades now."

> i'll concede that i didn't consider aftermarket, but even then, having
> extensive experience with this stuff, and knowing from that experience
> that any materials containing asbestos are labeled as such, most
> visibly, i can tell you that i haven't seen asbestos used in normal
> vehicle friction materials in decades.
>
> btw, you cited current osha warnings - those are very much relevant in
> that there are still vintage vehicles out there with their original
> friction linings, but those warnings are not evidence of modern
> applications.

Blah, blah, blah, why don't you just admit you're busted.

 

[landotter]

On Oct 9, 10:49 am, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 6, 11:49 am, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Tire powder and oil are everywhere.
> > The question is what makes Seattle different,
> > in addition to the year around rain.
>
> "Seattle Rain" is pretty much a myth.

Ya, right. Having lived in the area--yes, you can indeed have
wonderful summers, but I've experienced summers that barely arrived
before the drizzle sets in. It's not the inches, but the dampness.

 

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:09:32 -0400, Peter Cole
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> My point was that no, I don't think that Jim or Peter is right with
>> their yes-it-is, no-it-absolutely-isn't positions.
>>
>> The article that I cited seems to say that practically no new cars
>> come with asbestos brakes nowadays (which makes Jim Beam sound right),
>> but that lots of aftermarket brakes do come with asbestos (which makes
>> Peter Cole sound right).
>>
>> But anyone reading the exchange got nothing more than
>> asbestos-isn't-used-anymore versus you're-absolutely-wrong. Jim failed
>> to consider the after-market, while Peter seemed more interested in an
>> emphatic disagreement than in explaining his point. Jim is just as
>> quick or even quicker with similar replies that explain nothing.
>>
>> So I'd say that neither of them were "right" or "wrong" and that
>> neither of them would concede an inch.
>
>If you say so.
>
>"jim beam" declared asbestos hadn't been used in decades -- so it was no
>longer an exposure threat.
>
>"no asbestos used in automotive brakes for decades now."
>
>I knew this was unlikely, since my late model shop manuals still warn
>stridently about using compressed air on brakes, and cans of brake
>cleaner have similar precautions (although they may have a vested
>interest).
>
>I went online to confirm my suspicions. I quickly found out that:
>asbestos in brake products is not illegal in this country (attempts were
>made, but fell to lobbyists), and a significant amount of asbestos brake
>products are in service and regularly installed. I didn't see the point
>in a distinction between factory original and after market since these
>things are consumables. Even as new car components, asbestos brakes were
>common into the 90's, which was when the almost-ban happened. So,
>"decades" is stretching things a bit, anyway.
>
>There were so many articles refuting the claim I didn't think it was
>necessary to cite, but here are a couple I found (in 30 sec or so).
>People here know I'm a prolific citer -- so good in fact that at least
>one opponent whines that I can find anything to prove a point, even when
>I'm wrong (of course he never cites). Here, I thought the issue was
>black and white enough to not bother, I guess you didn't feel so and
>disqualified me on a technicality, so here goes:
>
>Article from year 2000 Seattle paper:
>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/uncivilaction/brks16.shtml
>
>Short summary: there was a lot of asbestos in 2000
>
>Another from 2007:
>http://www.aa1car.com/library/trtu796.htm
>
>Short summary: there's still a lot of asbestos.
>
>I don't think this NG really needs a scorekeeper, and if it did, you
>would be far from my first choice.

Dear Peter,

Oh, _absolutely_!



Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[jim beam]

landotter wrote:
> On Oct 9, 10:49 am, Hank Wirtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Oct 6, 11:49 am, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Tire powder and oil are everywhere.
>>> The question is what makes Seattle different,
>>> in addition to the year around rain.
>> "Seattle Rain" is pretty much a myth.
>
> Ya, right. Having lived in the area--yes, you can indeed have
> wonderful summers, but I've experienced summers that barely arrived
> before the drizzle sets in. It's not the inches, but the

constant and unrelenting

> dampness.
>

 

[Dan Burkhart]

On Oct 4, 7:24 pm, Dan Burkhart <Dan.Burkhart.2xy...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> Ryan Cousineau Wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Fitz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > See:
>
> > >http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/2008/urban/soho/soho40/
>
> > > Comments are appreciated!
>
> > Has anyone established what the differences are between the Alfine and
> > the Nexus Red Line 8-speed hubs yet?
>
> > My dream bike is more like Sheldon's recently-mentioned (but created
> > by
> > Harris Cyclery in 2006 or so) San Jos8, which is basically a UCI-legal
> > cyclocross bike with a Red Line 8 hub.
>
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau [email protected]://www.wiredcola.com/
> > "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> > to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
>
> The guys at Shimano Canada tell me that the internals of the Alfine
> are identical to the Nexus, and the internals of the premium Nexus are
> no different than the regular one. They just added a red stripe and a
> lighter hub shell and upgraded the bearings a bit.

That's false. The red band version has an extra row of roller
bearings surrounding the outermost gear ring.

I'm ready to believe the Alfine is the same internally as the red band
model, but haven't been inside an Alfine.

Both of my own Nexus 8s are the bottom of the line model, and I liked
them just fine when I was riding them.

> Bottom line, if you want disc brakes go with alfine, otherwise, Nexus
> with an Alfine shifter will be the same thing.

And if you don't mind waiting. Alfine still hasn't made it to the
U.S. aftermarket, though we keep bugging our distributors about it.

Sheldon "Al Feenay" Brown
+----------------------------------------+
| If you ride at night without lights |
| You are liable to be eaten by a grue. |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com
Useful articles about bicycles and cycling
http://sheldonbrown.com

My apologies for bringing this back on topic, but I just had a conversation with my contact at Shimano and he helped to clear a few things up. As he pointed out, this stuff is all new to them as well, and they are still trying to get their heads around it all.
To clarify, the internals of the three models are NOT the same. The premium Nexus internals are made of lighter materials, and the bearings are upgraded.
Also, he tells me that Nexus and Alfine internals are not interchangeable as was peviously believed.
Anyway, until I have the occasion to physically explore the internals of these hubs myself, I will have to glean my understanding of them from exploded view documents and the all wise Sheldon Brown.

 

[Jambo]

"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jim beam wrote:
>
> "no asbestos used in automotive brakes for decades now."
>
>> i'll concede that i didn't consider aftermarket, but even then, having
>> extensive experience with this stuff, and knowing from that experience
>> that any materials containing asbestos are labeled as such, most visibly,
>> i can tell you that i haven't seen asbestos used in normal vehicle
>> friction materials in decades.
>>
>> btw, you cited current osha warnings - those are very much relevant in
>> that there are still vintage vehicles out there with their original
>> friction linings, but those warnings are not evidence of modern
>> applications.
>
> Blah, blah, blah, why don't you just admit you're busted.

He won't - beamboy world rules state that beamboy is always "right".

But then again, we all already know he's an idiotic fraud.