Shimano catastrophic wheel failures cost team sky

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by CAMPYBOB, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    From your link:

    [​IMG]
    Ferrari knock-on wire-spoked wheel
    by Italian manufacturer Ruote Borrani, in Milan

    [​IMG]
    Ferrari knock-on cast wheel
    by Italian manufacturer Cromodora, in Brescia

    Read your English owner's manuals and service manuals...knock-on's are the correct nomenclature...as is boot, windscreen, wings, bonnet, dynamo, etc.

    But honestly, you'll here few Americans saying anything other than 'knock-off's'. A knock-off is a fake, replica, copy to me. And yeah, my friend's F5 Cobra replica has FAKE knock-off Halibrand wheels.
     


  2. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Ok, but I'm not English, I'm American, we don't call our car trunks boots, they are trunks;we don't call our car hoods bonnets, they are hoods; we don't call cigarettes fags either; we don't spell tire tyre. So the old saying is that if in Rome do as the Romans do, I'm in America I do as the Americans do thus the wheel spinner is a knock off which is completely 100% correct in America which is where I live and sleep for the last 63, well knocking on 64 years.

    I understand some of our words are bit weird, but you then have to listen to the content of the message and it would become apparent rather quickly that it was either a fake or part of wheel...except most people that are under 50 probably would have no idea what the spinner even was regardless if it was called a spinner, knock off, or knock on. But the one thing you missed in the word of knock off was that the word for the spinner is in two parts KNOCK and OFF, the fake word is one word KNOCKOFF, so reading a content will tell you too which one we are talking about.

    I don't have any English repair books anymore I left those too with the TR6, but I had to go to a British car sales parts desk and order one once, we both called it a knock off. Again it doesn't matter if a British book calls it a bonnet or a boot because we would simply say a hood or a trunk. The funny thing is with all this twisting word stuff is if someone didn't know in your country that a boot was a trunk they would think your talking about a boot you wear on your feet! If someone came to our country that didn't know what a trunk was they maybe thinking for either a elephant or a suitcase. Bonnet to an American means something women wear on their heads, but hoods are something that both men and women might wear too. In Britain I might go up to someone and say "give me five" and he might punch me, if I did that in America I would get his hand to slap my hand. If I walked into a British store and asked for a rubber they would hand me an eraser, but in America I would get a condom. A trainer here is a physical fitness person who trains others and not a tennis shoe like Britain says. In America a queen is a man dressed and made up to a women, but in England it's a lady who is the Queen of England.

    Anyway this sort of thing goes on and on.

    But since I am in America I am correct in using the work knock off in America.
     
  3. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I don't really care what anyone call a knock on wheel system. It does surprise me that it is possible to own a couple of Engrish cars and never heard the term.

    Kinda like a rock crusher. Either you were there or ya weren't.
     
  4. kopride

    kopride Active Member

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    I've heard Cobra replica folks call them "knock offs," and F5 even advertises them as Halibrand Replica wheels with "knock-offs. Campy is of course correct, that the actual term is knock on; but you can look all over and see it referred to as knock off design. http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/17-x-9-vintage-halibrand-replica-wheels/ Since, you still have lug nuts, and not true center lock wheels, I'm not sure that they would meet the definition of knock on wheels. My italian neighbors would call them fugazi.


    Here is a reference in Road & Track to knock-off wheels:http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28133/lost-art-the-smiting-of-the-knockoffs/ It does mention the weird issue of reverse threads on the passenger side, so its similar to spinning on pedals in terms of not trashing your threads by trying to go righty-tighty on the wrong side.

    Freaking Philistines. It's funny, they are coming back in some sense. I have Center Locks on my 911 GTS. Simply means I'm screwed if I'm not near a Porsche dealer; and it's an extra tool you need to have for a track day; and need to get the torque right since its the only thing holding your wheel on.

    But again, none of this conversation is making me feel any juices going to buying or restoring a vintage British car.
     
  5. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK only the Brits refer to them as knock ons. Froze can be forgiven for not knowing the terminology as long as he forever steers clear of owning another British sports car...hardly a problem.

    A German would use a fourteen syllable word that sounded like a repeated sneeze crossed with a holy roller speaking in tongues.

    While the Brits were smart enough to use a $20 brass, bronze or lead hammer, the Churmans required the use of a $300 custom socket attached to a $1000 torque wrench or a calibrated torque-limited air wrench! LOL!

    [​IMG]

    And no, none of us are dumb enough to go all resto on a rotted out Morgan +4!
     
  6. kopride

    kopride Active Member

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    I've never serviced my own wheels on a 911 with center locks. Talk about a solution in search of a problem. They do look cool
     

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  7. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    EXCUSE ME? Now you're going to go back to your old ways of being rude? I know exactly what they were called here in America, even the car club guys called them that back in the 70's when I had the MG with the wire wheels, the other British cars did not. And while we're at this flame throwing schit read these in their entirety because the words come up many times as knock offs and never knock ons:

    https://classicmotorsports.com/articles/wire-wheels-classic-cars/
    http://www.studegarage.com/indycar/hubs.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubcap
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinner_(wheel)
    http://www.complex.com/sports/2011/12/oral-history-the-evolution-of-car-rims/1980-1990
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28133/lost-art-the-smiting-of-the-knockoffs/
    http://www.mossmotoring.com/stuck-wire-wheels/
    http://www.guybroad.co.uk/newsletter/summer-2015_newsletter.html FROM THE UK!!!

    And there are many more websites then just those. So I think the person who is wrong here is YOU!
     
  8. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    "Fine German Engineering" means there is no such thing as simple German engineering.

    I almost pulled the trigger on buying an 'affordable' Dino that needed a rotisserie job. I thought I could tackle it until I saw the large square'ish hole someone had cut through the engine/passenger compartment divider panel with a freakin' Sawzall. And then pop riveted a piece of furnace ductwork tin over the hole. It was there when someone decided that was the easiest method of R&R'ing an alternator.

    I passed!
     
  9. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Nope. No rudeness intended. I honestly don't care what folks call 'spinnerz'. They can call them Ben Hur Chariot Wheel Retainers for all I care. Like you said, this 'Murica and we call them knock offs.

    Read the old English manuals though. Honestly, all the ones I read referred to them as knock ons. Not so much ON and OFF as UNDO!
     
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