Shimano hg cassette

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Chuckabutty, Sep 26, 2018.

  1. Chuckabutty

    Chuckabutty Member

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    I ride a Specialized Fatboy which is essentially a mountain bike but I only use it on the roads, with tires for that purpose.

    I recently installed a new cassette. Original equipment was a Sunrace 10 sp 11-40. I got a new one from my LBS but I'm not happy with it because when I change to a higher gear (smaller cog) the chain lands on the cog with a loud clonk, through the whole range of gears. The original one gave a bit of a clonk but not as bad as this new one. I adjusted the derailleur from scratch, setting the high and low limit screws, first. The barrel adjuster is at the lever shifter so I can adjust it on the fly. I can tighten or loosen the cable until the changes are rough. No matter what I do, it clonks. Changing down to a larger cog is smooth.

    With past bikes I've had good experiences with Shimano Hyperglide, with silky smooth changes up and down. So I'm trying to buy a Shimano HG 10 sp 11-40 cassette. It seems few sell it, but they offer 11-36. The one place that sells what I want is out of stock and they don't know when they'll be in, so I left my email address for them to notify me. I recently read, somewhere, that all cassettes now use the Hyperglide design. Apparently, that's not true, unless the new Sunrace I bought is an old model.

    I calculated the gear inches with a 36 T cog and a 40 T cog. The 40 T gives me 26 gear inches of travel, and the 36 T gives me 29 gear inches. Three more inches of travel in the lowest gear doesn't seem to be a big deal. And if I really need a lower gear, I can switch to the smaller chain ring. Am I asking too much to want the 11-40 T cassette in HG? Perhaps the reason why the 11-36 HG is available in many places is because there's little demand for the 11-40 HG? People who use a mountain bike for rough rides may not be bothered by a clonk with a Sunrace cassette, but on the road it's just loud!

    What would you do about having a smaller large cog?
     
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  2. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Your shifting problems suggest that you either have not adjusted your rear derailleur properly OR you possibly need a LONGER derailleur hanger (which may not be available for your frame) OR a different rear derailleur which can accommodate a 40t cog more easily than whatever your bike currently has ...

    I suppose your bike has a SRAM drivetrain ...​

    Apparently, I haven't said it enough times in a succinct enough manner:​

    JUST SAY 'NO' TO SRAM!

    If your Specialized Fatboy doesn't currently have Shimano derailleurs & shifters, then consider making the change to an SLX rear derailleur + whatever else you need to mate with the Shimano shifters you choose.

    If you've got a Shimano rear derailleur on your bike, then check to ensure that your rear derailleur hanger isn't BENT or LOOSE.

    Heck, check your rear derailleur hanger regardless of your setup.


     
  3. Chuckabutty

    Chuckabutty Member

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    I've had three bikes and put Shimano Hyper Glide cassettes and freewheels on them, and they were great. I also adjusted the limit screws with no problems, as I do each time I change a set of cogs.

    The Specialized had an 11-40 cassette as original equipment, and worked well with the long cage derailleur. The problem only arose with the new 11-40 cassette.

    The H & L limit screws are accurately set. I followed Park's advice to screw the limit screws right in, and then back them out until they are right. I am quite sure that the limiters are doing their job, well. That shouldn't affect the gear changes throughout the whole range of cogs.

    The barrel adjuster can be adjusted on the fly, and I've adjusted it both ways with no luck. I had the bike up on my bike work stand to adjust the derailleur, and no matter how I adjusted the barrel adjuster, the clonk was terrible. The chain literally drops onto the next cog. The derailleur cage is original equipment, and it hangs down parallel with the vertical axis of the wheel. The guide and jockey wheels are fine and line up with the cogs.

    I've ridden the bike for over 5,500 miles with no problems. I recently put a new chain on it and it was fine with the old cassette. Last night I put the old cassette back on and it doesn't clonk, at least nowhere near as badly as this new one. It was just frustrating trying to get the chain to glide smoothly on the new one. Apparently, the cassette isn't designed as a Hyper Glide. I did tell the LBS that's what I wanted.

    The drive train on my Specialized bike is SRAM but it's not been a problem. I installed a new KMC 10-speed chain on it a few months ago.

    What was bothering me, apart from the clonking cassette, is that there were no 11-40 cassettes that were advertised with Hyper Glide, unless I went for an 11-36. I left my email for Chain Reaction Cycles to notify me when they come in. Since I posted my OP, I got an email from them, this morning, to say that the Shimano Deore HG500 10 Speed Cassette is back in stock. But now I'm wondering if the 11-36 wouldn't be better for the road. I don't need to climb hills with it.

    I appreciate your response. Please tell me why SRAM is to be avoided. I have a SRAM chain on my 21-speed Schwinn and it's fine. As far as the SRAM derailleur on the Specialized is concerned, it does its job. It doesn't hang up or give any other problems.
     
    #3 Chuckabutty, Sep 27, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  4. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Oh ...

    I'm not a fan of SRAM's corporate policy regarding customer service ...

    And (IMO), if one were to have followed the byproduct of their apparent engineering philosophy -- (it should have been especially evident to the paid writers who presumably followed the arc of the evolution-or-lack-of the development in their various products that ...) SRAM's decision to eliminate the front derailleur is most likely because EITHER their bean counters had possibly been allowed to influence the final product because either they were too cheap to simply re-engineer the indexing cog on the left ROAD shifter with another step to allow for trimming the front derailleur OR the hubris of the engineer(s) would not allow it.

    Rather than admit a mistake, it has apparently been easier to convince the end user that multiple chainrings are unnecessary ...

    How?

    By sponsoring the CX racers who eschewed a second chainring because THEY did not use-or-need one.

    Brilliant ...

    Diabolically brilliant ... because the emperor had no clothes!

    The Double-Tap Road shifter's mechanism is an exquisite design, BTW.
    While I do not embrace SRAM's indexing philosophy with regard to the cable's pull rate, I understand its raison d'ĂȘtre because it allows for less precision in the adjustment.

    THAT's a good thing for the harried shop mechanic or lazy recreational rider.
    I will laud SRAM for mimicking Shimano's Cog spacing.

    So, I recommend against buying SRAM products because I agree with the belief that one should NOT reward bad behavior.​

    So ...

    JUST SAY 'NO' TO SRAM!

     
  5. Chuckabutty

    Chuckabutty Member

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    Okay, thanks for the info, but SRAM still make front derailleurs. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.

    Regarding chain rings, my Specialized has two, and that's more than adequate.

    I bought an el cheapo Schwinn 5th Avenue 700C, figuring it would need work right out of the box. It did, and I took care of it. This bike comes with a triple chain ring and I really don't see the need for the largest ring unless I was going downhill at speed and still felt a need to keep pedaling. I replaced the complete crank set when I found the large chain ring had three consecutive teeth that were mere nubs, causing the chain to crunch with each turn of the pedals. It bore Schwinn's name but that doesn't mean much, these days, so I replaced it with Shimano, and swapped the cup and cone BB bearings for a cartridge.

    About ten miles from home the front derailleur came loose, and the clamp bolt was a piece of soft metal, the head of which chewed right off. I managed to twist it around so I could get home without it grinding all the way home.

    I bought a new derailleur from my LBS, a Shimano Deore XT. I told the guy it's for a triple chain ring and he said it would work. If I remember correctly, I paid close to $60 for it. That thing would not work on three chain rings. I could adjust it for the middle and small rings, or the middle and large rings. I even removed the limiter screws but nothing would make that thing operate across three chain rings. Perhaps it's made for chain rings that are closer together, but considering the chain is for a 7/8 speed, closer chain rings might not have worked. So it sits in my box of bike parts, and that's only one of several reasons I don't deal with that LBS, now. Perhaps I could have taken it back for a refund but I'd had it for a few weeks before installing it, and don't know if they would have taken it back.

    I bought a new bolt for the old derailleur, that takes a hex wrench, and the derailleur now works great. It's actually a good bike, now, with other improvements.
     
  6. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    ACK!

    Of course, SRAM continues to sell a full line of drivetrain components ...

    Their high-zoot groups which are marketed to-and-for the "cool kids" are 1x (one chainring to be used with a very wide range Cassette).​

    One lesson which you hopefully learned (which "the guy" at your LBS apparently hasn't!!) is that SRAM and Shimano are NOT COMPATIBLE.

    AND, due to varying chain widths, Shimano FRONT derailleurs must be matched with the proper Shimano shifter ... possibly, more so with MTB shifters since there is NO intermediate trimming.

    So, even IF you might have had XT shifters (for example), if you were sold an 11-speed front derailleur (for example) and had a set of 9-speed Shimano shifters, you would probably encounter shifting problems.

    In the case of the WRONG "type" of Shimano front derailleur with the wrong, older Shimano MTB shifter it may-or-may-not be possible to use the wrong front derailleur by employing the chain designed for the front derailleur's group. But, maybe not. No promises.
    The first generation of SRAM MTB shifters were apparently Shimano compatible ...

    However, using a Shimano front derailleur with comparatively recent (the past 10+ years ... I do NOT know when SRAM changed the "pull rate" for their derailleurs ... probably with the advent of their Road groups) SRAM shifters is problematic as you learned.

    BTW. I'm not sure what you mean by "nubs" because on some chainrings the profile of some of the teeth is intentionally, slightly SHORTER to facilitate shifting.



     
  7. Chuckabutty

    Chuckabutty Member

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    I hear you! Incidentally, the original front derailleur had no name. It was just a generic part. I had also switched the twist shifters for levers, and they worked well with the original generic derailleur, just not with the new derailleur.

    The guy (owner at my former LBS) knows little about bikes and their components. Over little more than two years (and three new bikes) I count five botched jobs, two of which they corrected, and three I corrected. Despite those things, the main reason I won't go there, now, is because of their neurotic and bad-tempered bike mechanic who has a tendency to snap at customers without provocation.

    There was a problem with rim brakes (with replaceable pads) I ordered. I waited eight months before I bought them online.

    I wrote the owner a private message on his Facebook page, about one of the botch jobs. He wrote back with a bunch of BS that appeared to indicate he didn't know what he was talking about. He has no idea what kind of lousy work is leaving his shop. They are great sales people, very kind and attentive, but that's all.

    Fortunately, I'm able to do my own mechanical work, having built up a collection of tools including a truing stand and spoke tension gauge. I'll say it, myself, that I'm a better mechanic than the one at the LBS.
    The nubs were three consecutive teeth that were about half as tall as the rest of them. And it was them that caused the chain to crunch each time it passed over them. I put the new Shimano crankset on the bike, and no more crunching. You don't get much for $199, and I didn't expect much. Even the front wheel was dished which is why I bought a truing stand and spoke tension gauge. Looking down on the wheel as I rode, I could see the spokes on the left side but not on the right unless I leaned over to see them. That wheel is now good.

    The first bike I bought from that LBS was a 7-speed cruiser. There was a spot on the front wheel where the rim brake would snatch. They told me to clean it with alcohol, and if that didn't work, use 400 grit paper. I did those things and they worked until I had applied the brake several times. I removed the wheel for closer examination, removed the tire and used an electronic micrometer to measure the rim width all the way around. It was perfect. The only thing I could think of was, being they were cheap Chinese wheels, that the metal alloy wasn't mixed properly, and there was some metallic difference that wasn't visible to the eye. I had fitted new rim brakes with replaceable pads, and that didn't fix the problem.

    So back to the bike shop to order better wheels. Their neurotic mechanic said that "all rim brakes snatch." He advised that better rims would still snatch, and not to waste my money with them. I knew he was BSing because I'd owned three bikes prior to the cruiser, and none of the brakes snatched. I'm not talking about snatching when first applied. He went on to lecture me about all the technicalities of a rim, and snapped at me when I tried to ask him a question. I turned to the business owner and asked him to order the better rims. That cured the snatching problem.

    When I got the cheap Schwinn, and put it together, I knew the warranty was void unless it was assembled by a professional mechanic. Yet this same LBS mechanic was the one who did the five botch jobs I mentioned. Ironic! I must have been nuts to stick with them for over two years. I know I have much to learn about bike parts and their compatibility, but I'd rather take my chances with wrong components than let that guy loose on my bikes.
     
    #7 Chuckabutty, Sep 28, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  8. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly there was a point at which the ratio of the front derailleur changed. There is a Triple front derailleur and there is a double compact derailleur. These look identical but the ratio of movement is different. There is some indication on the part number but I can't remember what it was.

    Also, Shimano made a ratio change between the Brifters and off-road shifter and the new style derailleurs with top pull. I think that the newer stuff will accommodate top or bottom pull but the shifters have to be the newer style. New off road derailleurs don't work with Brifters.
     
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