Shimano Nexus 8-speed Hubs

[Tom Sherman]

Tom Ace wrote:

> Jay Beattie wrote:
>
>
>>It sure must suck to change a flat, though, and it looks like you
>>have to have a frame with horizontal drop-outs and an MTB-type
>>bar for the grip shift.
>
>
> I can't speak about the other hubs, but with a Rohloff it's not
> that big a pain to get the wheel off for changing a flat.
>
> You don't have to use an MTB bar. Norwid (and possibly others)
> make drop bar arrangements that accept a MTB-style twist grip.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if internal gearing gets more popular
> with time.
>
> Imagine that in shifting your car's transmission, getting to
> the next gear in sequence in some cases required moving one
> lever forward and another lever backward several notches.
> No one would buy a car with controls like that, but it's
> the status quo in bicycling.

Many trucks have a two-speed rear axle with a separate control on the
shift level.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth

 

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:32:47 -0800, "Jay Beattie"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:36:15 -0800, "Jay Beattie"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> Pete Biggs wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Besides the extra gear, and the silent clutch, are there
>any
>> >differences
>> >> > in terms of perfomance, durabilty and weight between it
>and
>> >the Nexus 7
>> >> > hub?
>> >>
>> >> The Nexus 8 is supposedly more efficent and durable, and
>better
>> >able to
>> >> withstand shifting under load. It is also heavier, about
>1.8
>> >kg.
>> >
>> >I do not follow this segment of the market. Why do people
>want
>> >an internal geared hub? It seems incredibly complicated. --
>Jay
>> >Beattie.
>>
>> Dear Jay,
>>
>> You can shift to any gear you please while standing still at
>> a stop sign.
>>
>> Less dish to accomodate 10 cogs means a stronger rear wheel.
>>
>> Your chain doesn't fall off so easily because there's no
>> derailleur to become too enthusiastic.
>>
>> Internal gears hardly wear at all compared to external cogs.
>>
>> Internal gears are much less prone to damage than a hind
>> derailleur.
>>
>> The small extra weight is hard to notice. So is the drag.
>>
>> The large price tag warns other members of the herd of your
>> status.
>>
>> The complicated innards appeal to the gadget crazy.
>>
>> The simplified exterior appeals to the practical.
>>
>> The return to 3-speed hubs appeals to the nostalgic.
>>
>> You no longer worry about fiddling with 10 gear ratios in
>> back.
>>
>> You do get to fuss with what single cog you want in the
>> back.
>>
>> You get to play with new areas of Sheldon's gearing
>> calculators.
>>
>> You get to talk about it on rec.bicycles.tech--look at the
>> interest!
>>
>> You may well be the only boy on your block with one.
>>
>> I expect that others will raise advantages that should have
>> been obvious to the meanest intelligence, but those were
>> what occurred to me at the drop of a hat.
>
>That probably covers it. Live and learn.
>
>It sure must suck to change a flat, though, and it looks like you
>have to have a frame with horizontal drop-outs and an MTB-type
>bar for the grip shift. You still have a cog and chain to get
>dirty (but less to clean, obviously). And you have eight
>gears -- which reminds me of the old days riding on a four-speed
>freewheel owned by my Bulgarian cycling coach and fitted on the
>neutral support wheel in the team vehicle (really, this is not a
>joke) -- except the Nexus has an awesome range. It would make
>for a nice commuting bike, except for the flat repair part. --
>Jay Beattie.

Dear Jay,

A good point about flats, since others often comment about
difficulty in wrestling tubes and tires on and off a rear
wheel with an internal hub.

I think that the preferred method is just exposing the
damaged part of the tube and patching it in place:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/flats.html

Go down to "internal gears" on the page above and Sheldon
suggests patching the tube on the bike.

As for the gearshift limiting you to certain handlebars,
Sheldon has an elegant modification that allows the use of
drop bars with the mountain-bike grip-shift:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly-rohloff/index.html

(Unlike your comment above, this is a joke.)

Carl Fogel

 

[flaneur]

Ah, things are so much better in the frozen north. We have had the 8
spd, in stock, for three or four months now.

But, and that's in big letters, does anyone have any leads on
'alternative' shifting possibilities? The old Sachs 5-spd 2-cable,
horrid plastic shifter (25000 km, before stolen) at least let you put
the shifter where you wanted it. And I want the 8-spd on my Surly, with
drops.


In article <[email protected]>,
Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

> Pete Biggs wrote:
>
> > Besides the extra gear, and the silent clutch, are there any differences
> > in terms of perfomance, durabilty and weight between it and the Nexus 7
> > hub?
>
> The Nexus 8 is supposedly more efficent and durable, and better able to
> withstand shifting under load. It is also heavier, about 1.8 kg.
>
> Sheldon "Win Some, Lose Some" Brown
> +---------------------------------------------+
> | Do not needlessly endanger your lives |
> | until I give you the signal. |
> | --Dwight D. Eisenhower |
> +---------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[A Muzi]

Chalo wrote:
-snip much. Yes, this is picayune-
> I continue to be completely vexed by the Sturmey Archer gearhubs that
> build into dished wheels. I reckoned Shimano had given us another such
> abomination, but I was wrong.

Which product? Although the ubiquitous AW _can_ have dish it
usually doesn't. Depends on left side axle spacing, which is
quite variable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[A Muzi]

>> Pete Biggs wrote:
-snip-
>> the Nexus 7 hub? The Nexus 8

> "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote
-snip-
> is supposedly more efficent and durable, and better
> able to
> withstand shifting under load. It is also heavier, about 1.8
> kg.

Jay Beattie wrote:
> I do not follow this segment of the market. Why do people want
> an internal geared hub? It seems incredibly complicated. -- Jay

Mostly, no derailleur.

Although I own both, there are riders who choose a gearbox
to obviate chain falling off, to get a chain cover, to avoid
bent/rusted/colicky derailleurs, for faster shifts ( click
to low at stoplights, click to low at a near dead stop
halfway up a hill), for quieter operation, for cleaner
appearance, for longer drive train wear (can use fat $9.95
chain), and 'just because' (celebrate diversity).

There are as many reasons as riders but we find that when
there are several on the showroom floor, some are just drawn
to them. Which is the whole idea, I think!

And it isn't at all 'incredibly complicated' to the user.
Quite the inverse. Internal hubs might as well have little
robotic gerbils in there for all the average user knows. Or
cares.

I especially like the SRAM sevens because they've made more
non-cyclists into cyclists here than any product in recent
memory. Something derailleurs are just not all that good at.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Boyle M. Owl]

Jay Beattie wrote:

> I do not follow this segment of the market. Why do people want
> an internal geared hub? It seems incredibly complicated.

Ease of maintenence, for one. Secondly, it's less complicated *from the
user point of view* by far. Simply hop on the bike and go. No
derailleur to adjust, front or rear. Being able to shift while stopped
at a stoplight is also a plus.

IOW, it's great for city bikes.

BTW, I've got a triple and a 7 speed cassette. I only use about 4 gears
plus the granny gear to get up College Hill (Where Brown U is in
Providence RI). An 8 speed internal hub would be plenty for me.

--
BMO

 

[jim beam]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Tom Ace wrote:
>
>> Jay Beattie wrote:
>>
>>
>>> It sure must suck to change a flat, though, and it looks like you
>>> have to have a frame with horizontal drop-outs and an MTB-type
>>> bar for the grip shift.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can't speak about the other hubs, but with a Rohloff it's not
>> that big a pain to get the wheel off for changing a flat.
>>
>> You don't have to use an MTB bar. Norwid (and possibly others)
>> make drop bar arrangements that accept a MTB-style twist grip.
>>
>> I wouldn't be surprised if internal gearing gets more popular
>> with time.
>>
>> Imagine that in shifting your car's transmission, getting to
>> the next gear in sequence in some cases required moving one
>> lever forward and another lever backward several notches.
>> No one would buy a car with controls like that, but it's
>> the status quo in bicycling.
>
>
> Many trucks have a two-speed rear axle with a separate control on the
> shift level.
>
and some trucks with 8 or 12 speed boxes have a 4 speed gate with a
thumb lever on the shifter knob to change which range you're in. used
to anyway.

 

[Chalo]

A Muzi wrote:
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > I continue to be completely vexed by the Sturmey Archer gearhubs
that
> > build into dished wheels. I reckoned Shimano had given us another
such
> > abomination, but I was wrong.
>
> Which product? Although the ubiquitous AW _can_ have dish it
> usually doesn't. Depends on left side axle spacing, which is
> quite variable.

The Elite 5 was the last gearhub I built into a needlessly dished
wheel. I think is was spaced 126mm or so. I don't remember the one
before that, but it also had an aluminum shell.

Chalo Colina

 

[Pete Biggs]

Jay Beattie wrote:

> I do not follow this segment of the market. Why do people want
> an internal geared hub? It seems incredibly complicated.

They're incredibly simple to use and require very little maintenance.

~PB

 

[Pete Biggs]

Jay Beattie wrote:

> It sure must suck to change a flat, though,

Changing a tyre or tube does indeed suck a vast one, but flats can usually
be fixed quite easily by patching the tube without removing the wheel.

> and it looks like you
> have to have a frame with horizontal drop-outs and an MTB-type
> bar for the grip shift. You still have a cog and chain to get
> dirty (but less to clean, obviously).

The chain being chunkier and the chainline being better means the chain
lasts well even when hardly ever cleaned. The roller brake also saves
much cleaning and rim wear.

~PB

 

[David Damerell]

begin quoting Jay Beattie <[email protected]>:
>I do not follow this segment of the market. Why do people want
>an internal geared hub? It seems incredibly complicated. -- Jay
>Beattie.

The user doesn't see the complication.

I built one up for my mother. She never fixes flats on the road anyway, so
the difficulty of wheel removal doesn't matter. It doesn't get misadjusted
like a derailleur or throw the chain like a derailleur, and the chain
lasts forever even if it never gets cleaned, which it doesn't. She's very
pleased with it.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is Oneiros, February.

 

[Bill Sornson]

David Damerell wrote:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......................

 

[hhu]

>SRAM already make a 3-speed hub that fits a cassette.

Yes, I know. But that's 3, not 8.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Bill Sornson wrote:

> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......................

Choo!

 

[[email protected]]

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Bill Sornson wrote:
>
> > Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......................
>
> Choo!

Aw, geez- now I've got snot all over my keyboard.
http://www.howardsauto.com/products/63/70/147.php

Jeff

 

[David Damerell]

begin quoting hhu <kohi>:
>>SRAM already make a 3-speed hub that fits a cassette.
>Yes, I know. But that's 3, not 8.

Ah. I thought you were concerned with practical effect, not with
maximising the number of gears for pure amusement.

[Not that the latter is not a noble aim; but look at the Rohloff for
14xcassette in the back rather than 8xcassette...]
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
Today is Mania, February.

 

[hhu]

>[Not that the latter is not a noble aim; but look at the Rohloff for
>14xcassette in the back rather than 8xcassette...]


Rohloff costs about $1k. Nexus costs about $250. Do the math...

 

[Andreas Oehler]

Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:45:34 -0500, Sheldon Brown:

>The Nexus 8 is supposedly more efficent and durable, and better able to
>withstand shifting under load. It is also heavier, about 1.8 kg.

You have to distinguish between the "standard" SG-8R20 you sell and the
more efficient "premium" SG-8R25. The biggest difference is more roller
bearings instead of slide bearings in the planetary gearings.

Andreas

 

[Tom Sherman]

hhu wrote:

>>[Not that the latter is not a noble aim; but look at the Rohloff for
>>14xcassette in the back rather than 8xcassette...]
>
>
>
> Rohloff costs about $1k. Nexus costs about $250. Do the math...

Assume a 10-speed cassette.

Rohloff: $1000/(10x14) = $7.14/ratio.

Nexus: $250/(10x8) = $3.13/ratio.

Advantage Nexus 8 over Rohloff by a ratio of 2.29:1.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth

 

[flaneur]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> Jose Rizal wrote:
> >
> > Looks nice, but what's the principle of the roller brake, and what is
> > the disk with what looks like guide vanes on the brake side of the
> hub?
>
> Here you go:
> http://www.shimano-europe.com/cycling/catalogue/content_prodx.phtml?pid=11081&
> psid=10523
>
> The disk is a heat sink for the brake. The principle behind a roller
> brake is similar to a drum brake, the difference being that instead of
> organic material, steel rollers are pressed outward into a metal drum.
> I can't tell you what the advantage this would have.
>
> Jeff

Like an idiot I put this in the wrong spot the other day... hope someone
has enlightening suggestions on Nexus 8 speed shifters.

"Ah, things are so much better in the frozen north. We have had the 8
spd, in stock, for three or four months now.

But, and that's in big letters, does anyone have any leads on
'alternative' shifting possibilities? The old Sachs 5-spd 2-cable,
horrid plastic shifter (25000 km, before stolen) at least let you put
the shifter where you wanted it. And I want the 8-spd on my Surly, with
drops."