Shimano pedal hair-splitting tech question



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[email protected] wrote:
: That may be why so many people believe the political spin doctors who use implication as their
: main substance.

well, it's that and the other guiding principle: if you say it often enuf it becomes "true."
--
david reuteler [email protected]
 
"Per Elmsäter" wrote:
> ... I tried the SH55 cleat once but it scared me since I couldn't really feel if my pedals were
> attached or not....

I have had my shoes come unintentionally upclipped using SH55 cleats on more than one occasion, but
it has never happened with SH51 cleats.

Tom Sherman - 41 N, 90 W
 
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> carl-<< Sixty-six degrees Sunday. Rode in my shorts at half-past noon. My, what a difference a
> hundred miles makes!
>
> Carl Fogel Pueblo, CO >><BR><BR>
>
> I went to HS in Colorado Springs, my brother in Pueblo when USC was SCSC...the bad old days when
> Pueblo had the steel mills but I have been there lately and it IS a nice place....
>

WAYGTTUWTM

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> perelmsater writes(?)-<< WAYGTTUWTM >><BR><BR>
>
>
> Why Are You Gooning The Time Up With Trivial Messages(?)
>
> A if this isn't trivial enuff....
>

Nice try ;) No it was more like When Are You Going To Tell US What This Means

Of course reffering to the already snipped parts of our conversation.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > perelmsater writes(?)-<< WAYGTTUWTM >><BR><BR>
> >
> >
> > Why Are You Gooning The Time Up With Trivial Messages(?)
> >
> > A if this isn't trivial enuff....
> >
>
> Nice try ;) No it was more like When Are You Going To Tell US What This Means
>
> Of course reffering to the already snipped parts of our conversation.

Dear Per,

Here's the scholarly edition, with footnotes appended!

Sixty-seven degrees now, time for my daily ride.

Carl Fogel

carl-<< Sixty-six degrees[1] Sunday[2]. Rode in my shorts[3] at half-past noon. My, what a
difference a hundred miles[4] makes!

Carl Fogel Pueblo, CO[5] >><BR><BR>

I went to HS[6] in Colorado Springs[7], my brother in Pueblo when USC was SCSC[8]...the bad old days
when Pueblo had the steel mills[9] but I have been there lately and it IS a nice place....

Peter Chisholm

1. A pleasant temperature described by a scale better suited to measuring human comfort than certain
other scales. Pleasant temperatures are more common in Pueblo in December than in Boulder, a fact
that I feared Peter might not be sufficiently aware of.

2. A day on which people like Peter sometimes find out what my whole week feels like. I was far too
noble to rub his nose in this example of cosmic injustice--that's what footnotes are for.

3. An article of clothing replaced by long cycling tights below 60 degrees by pampered cyclists. Not
worn at 7am in the snow in Boulder, either.

4. A rough approximation of the distance between Peter in Boulder and me in Pueblo, using another
scale scorned on the eastern side of the Atlantic.

5. A postal abbreviation signifying the only truly rectangular state in the Union--except that if
you get a good map, you can see where envious Wyoming and wicked New Mexico have carved tiny
strips off the top and bottom. We taught New Mexico its place at the battle of Glorieta Pass and
stand ready to repeat the lesson if Wyoming gets too big for its britches.

6. An abbreviation for "high school," a place where children in the U.S. are kept of out the labor
pool and in the dark.

7. A city lying roughly half-way between Pueblo and Boulder, whose polluted sky is now visible fifty
miles away, a source of great comfort to Puebloans, who endured comments about their steel mill
for decades.

8. A particularly sad example of the Colorado state system of higher education, Southern Colorado
State College in Pueblo had a president, vice-president, and dean for over 7,000 students. Like
any bureaucracy, it obeyed Parkinson's Law, aspired to greater grandeur, renamed itself the
University of Southern Colorado, left its campus for a new site, and soon had 2,000 fewer
students, but five times as many officials at he rank of dean or higher. Formerly known to its
inmates as Suck-Suck (SCSC), it became You-Suck (USC) when I was haranguing helpless students
about our friend the apostrophe. It now rejoices in the unsullied name of the Colorado State
University at Pueblo, without any practical change beyond a further increase in administrators.
Meanwhile, Pueblo Community College keeps doing a good job of teaching welding and other
practical skills at the original site a few blocks from my home.

9. The Colorado Fuel and Iron Corporation in its heyday shot strikers at the nearby Ludlow coal
mines, but fell upon hard times after the happy decades following the Second World War and
eventually converted largely to electric arc furnaces before being sold to Oregon Steel, a
company that declined to entertain various pension schemes and union demands. The striking
workers are still holding annual rallies, but after five years or so they seem to have lost some
enthusiasm. Even in what Peter calls the bad old days, the pollution from the steel mills blew
mostly east, away from town and into the prairies toward Kansas, and was usually measured at less
than the pollution in Colorado Springs, where the wind often traps the smog up against Pikes
Peak. In the bad old days, the steel mill workers also made a lot more money.

The chief industry of the People's Republic of Boulder is the main campus of the University of
Colorado. A close second, I hope, is the sale of Campagnolo bicycles.
 
Carl Fogel wrote:
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>> perelmsater writes(?)-<< WAYGTTUWTM >><BR><BR>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why Are You Gooning The Time Up With Trivial Messages(?)
>>>
>>> A if this isn't trivial enuff....
>>>
>>
>> Nice try ;) No it was more like When Are You Going To Tell US What This Means
>>
>> Of course reffering to the already snipped parts of our conversation.
>
> Dear Per,
>
> Here's the scholarly edition, with footnotes appended!
>
> Sixty-seven degrees now, time for my daily ride.
>
> Carl Fogel
>
> carl-<< Sixty-six degrees[1] Sunday[2]. Rode in my shorts[3] at half-past noon. My, what a
> difference a hundred miles[4] makes!
>
> Carl Fogel Pueblo, CO[5] >><BR><BR>
>
> I went to HS[6] in Colorado Springs[7], my brother in Pueblo when USC was SCSC[8]...the bad old
> days when Pueblo had the steel mills[9] but I have been there lately and it IS a nice place....
>
> Peter Chisholm
>
>
> 1. A pleasant temperature described by a scale better suited to measuring human comfort than
> certain other scales. Pleasant temperatures are more common in Pueblo in December than in
> Boulder, a fact that I feared Peter might not be sufficiently aware of.
>
> 2. A day on which people like Peter sometimes find out what my whole week feels like. I was far
> too noble to rub his nose in this example of cosmic injustice--that's what footnotes are for.
>
> 3. An article of clothing replaced by long cycling tights below 60 degrees by pampered cyclists.
> Not worn at 7am in the snow in Boulder, either.
>
> 4. A rough approximation of the distance between Peter in Boulder and me in Pueblo, using another
> scale scorned on the eastern side of the Atlantic.
>
> 5. A postal abbreviation signifying the only truly rectangular state in the Union--except that if
> you get a good map, you can see where envious Wyoming and wicked New Mexico have carved tiny
> strips off the top and bottom. We taught New Mexico its place at the battle of Glorieta Pass
> and stand ready to repeat the lesson if Wyoming gets too big for its britches.
>
> 6. An abbreviation for "high school," a place where children in the U.S. are kept of out the labor
> pool and in the dark.
>
> 7. A city lying roughly half-way between Pueblo and Boulder, whose polluted sky is now visible
> fifty miles away, a source of great comfort to Puebloans, who endured comments about their
> steel mill for decades.
>
> 8. A particularly sad example of the Colorado state system of higher education, Southern Colorado
> State College in Pueblo had a president, vice-president, and dean for over 7,000 students. Like
> any bureaucracy, it obeyed Parkinson's Law, aspired to greater grandeur, renamed itself the
> University of Southern Colorado, left its campus for a new site, and soon had 2,000 fewer
> students, but five times as many officials at he rank of dean or higher. Formerly known to its
> inmates as Suck-Suck (SCSC), it became You-Suck (USC) when I was haranguing helpless students
> about our friend the apostrophe. It now rejoices in the unsullied name of the Colorado State
> University at Pueblo, without any practical change beyond a further increase in administrators.
> Meanwhile, Pueblo Community College keeps doing a good job of teaching welding and other
> practical skills at the original site a few blocks from my home.
>
> 9. The Colorado Fuel and Iron Corporation in its heyday shot strikers at the nearby Ludlow coal
> mines, but fell upon hard times after the happy decades following the Second World War and
> eventually converted largely to electric arc furnaces before being sold to Oregon Steel, a
> company that declined to entertain various pension schemes and union demands. The striking
> workers are still holding annual rallies, but after five years or so they seem to have lost
> some enthusiasm. Even in what Peter calls the bad old days, the pollution from the steel mills
> blew mostly east, away from town and into the prairies toward Kansas, and was usually measured
> at less than the pollution in Colorado Springs, where the wind often traps the smog up against
> Pikes Peak. In the bad old days, the steel mill workers also made a lot more money.
>
> The chief industry of the People's Republic of Boulder is the main campus of the University of
> Colorado. A close second, I hope, is the sale of Campagnolo bicycles.

Thankyou Carl. Everything is clear as daylight now. You only left out one very important item and
that is what the mascot of the football team of Suck-Suck (SCSC), respectively You-Suck (USC) was.
And don't try to tell me it's a gator 'cause I happen to know that is UofF and his name was Albert
last time I saw him.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
Rick Onanian wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:53:14 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> WAYGTTUWTM
>
> WTF?

You heard me.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
"Carl Fogel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> when I was haranguing helpless students about our friend the apostrophe.

I wish you had harangued our friends the data entry clerks a bit more. An apostrophe in one's name
is a curse...

"Oh, I see what the problem is, you have one of those little hyphen-things in your name..."

Matt O.
 
On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:07:43 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Carl Fogel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> when I was haranguing helpless students about our friend the apostrophe.
>
>I wish you had harangued our friends the data entry clerks a bit more. An apostrophe in one's name
>is a curse...
>
>"Oh, I see what the problem is, you have one of those little hyphen-things in your name..."

Hey, could be worse -- I constantly get the apostrophe that you're missing inserted into MY name!
Additionally, nobody believes I could possibly have so many letters repeated, so they guess at what
to change them to.

>Matt O.
--
Rick Onanian
 
[email protected] (Carl Fogel) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>
> For about 5,000 miles per year, I press $12 shoes from WalMart against toothed pedals suitable for
> children, so I follow arguments like this about cleats with all the interest of a basset hound
> listening to the greyhounds discussing how to clip their claws before races.
>
> Carl Fogel

Carl, are you serious? Have you ever tried a clipless pedal? I was leary of having my feet trapped,
but now I wouldn't want to ride without them. They improved my performance and for me, safety. No
more feet bouncing off the pedals. Life is Good! Jeff
 
[email protected] (Jeff Starr) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Carl Fogel) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>
> >
> > For about 5,000 miles per year, I press $12 shoes from WalMart against toothed pedals suitable
> > for children, so I follow arguments like this about cleats with all the interest of a basset
> > hound listening to the greyhounds discussing how to clip their claws before races.
> >
> > Carl Fogel
>
> Carl, are you serious? Have you ever tried a clipless pedal? I was leary of having my feet
> trapped, but now I wouldn't want to ride without them. They improved my performance and for me,
> safety. No more feet bouncing off the pedals. Life is Good! Jeff

Dear Jeff,

I'm rarely serious, but never clipped-in.

I'm tempted by the idea of enhancing my already awe-inspiring performance, but the cost,
complexity, tales of knee problems, and explanations about how tricky it is to unclip the uppermost
foot in action all combine to provide me with enough excuses to avoid having "my feet trapped," as
you put it.

The safety advantage sounds interesting, but my feet never seem to bounce off the pedals. I thought
that this problem was confined to recumbents.

Like my basset hound, I'm wary of putting my paws into traps. As an unreformed trials rider, I
shudder just as violently at the notion of not being able to get a foot down instantly as I do when
someone drags a clipless pedal across a blackboard.

Out of curiosity, what exactly is the power advantage of being attached to the pedal?

That is, does it reduce wasteful sliding on the downstroke?

Judging by Jobst Brandt's comments about how using more muscles is useless except in short sprints,
it seems unlikely that the ability to pull up on the pedal is of much value.

Yours for foot freedom,

Carl Fogel
 
"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Carl Fogel wrote:
> > "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> >>> perelmsater writes(?)-<< WAYGTTUWTM >><BR><BR>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Why Are You Gooning The Time Up With Trivial Messages(?)
> >>>
> >>> A if this isn't trivial enuff....
> >>>
> >>
> >> Nice try ;) No it was more like When Are You Going To Tell US What This Means
> >>
> >> Of course reffering to the already snipped parts of our conversation.
> >
> > Dear Per,
> >
> > Here's the scholarly edition, with footnotes appended!
> >
> > Sixty-seven degrees now, time for my daily ride.
> >
> > Carl Fogel
> >
> > carl-<< Sixty-six degrees[1] Sunday[2]. Rode in my shorts[3] at half-past noon. My, what a
> > difference a hundred miles[4] makes!
> >
> > Carl Fogel Pueblo, CO[5] >><BR><BR>
> >
> > I went to HS[6] in Colorado Springs[7], my brother in Pueblo when USC was SCSC[8]...the bad old
> > days when Pueblo had the steel mills[9] but I have been there lately and it IS a nice place....
> >
> > Peter Chisholm
> >
> >
> > 1. A pleasant temperature described by a scale better suited to measuring human comfort than
> > certain other scales. Pleasant temperatures are more common in Pueblo in December than in
> > Boulder, a fact that I feared Peter might not be sufficiently aware of.
> >
> > 2. A day on which people like Peter sometimes find out what my whole week feels like. I was far
> > too noble to rub his nose in this example of cosmic injustice--that's what footnotes are for.
> >
> > 3. An article of clothing replaced by long cycling tights below 60 degrees by pampered cyclists.
> > Not worn at 7am in the snow in Boulder, either.
> >
> > 4. A rough approximation of the distance between Peter in Boulder and me in Pueblo, using
> > another scale scorned on the eastern side of the Atlantic.
> >
> > 5. A postal abbreviation signifying the only truly rectangular state in the Union--except that
> > if you get a good map, you can see where envious Wyoming and wicked New Mexico have carved
> > tiny strips off the top and bottom. We taught New Mexico its place at the battle of Glorieta
> > Pass and stand ready to repeat the lesson if Wyoming gets too big for its britches.
> >
> > 6. An abbreviation for "high school," a place where children in the U.S. are kept of out the
> > labor pool and in the dark.
> >
> > 7. A city lying roughly half-way between Pueblo and Boulder, whose polluted sky is now visible
> > fifty miles away, a source of great comfort to Puebloans, who endured comments about their
> > steel mill for decades.
> >
> > 8. A particularly sad example of the Colorado state system of higher education, Southern
> > Colorado State College in Pueblo had a president, vice-president, and dean for over 7,000
> > students. Like any bureaucracy, it obeyed Parkinson's Law, aspired to greater grandeur,
> > renamed itself the University of Southern Colorado, left its campus for a new site, and soon
> > had 2,000 fewer students, but five times as many officials at he rank of dean or higher.
> > Formerly known to its inmates as Suck-Suck (SCSC), it became You-Suck (USC) when I was
> > haranguing helpless students about our friend the apostrophe. It now rejoices in the
> > unsullied name of the Colorado State University at Pueblo, without any practical change
> > beyond a further increase in administrators. Meanwhile, Pueblo Community College keeps doing
> > a good job of teaching welding and other practical skills at the original site a few blocks
> > from my home.
> >
> > 9. The Colorado Fuel and Iron Corporation in its heyday shot strikers at the nearby Ludlow coal
> > mines, but fell upon hard times after the happy decades following the Second World War and
> > eventually converted largely to electric arc furnaces before being sold to Oregon Steel, a
> > company that declined to entertain various pension schemes and union demands. The striking
> > workers are still holding annual rallies, but after five years or so they seem to have lost
> > some enthusiasm. Even in what Peter calls the bad old days, the pollution from the steel
> > mills blew mostly east, away from town and into the prairies toward Kansas, and was usually
> > measured at less than the pollution in Colorado Springs, where the wind often traps the smog
> > up against Pikes Peak. In the bad old days, the steel mill workers also made a lot more
> > money.
> >
> > The chief industry of the People's Republic of Boulder is the main campus of the University of
> > Colorado. A close second, I hope, is the sale of Campagnolo bicycles.
>
>
> Thankyou Carl. Everything is clear as daylight now. You only left out one very important item and
> that is what the mascot of the football team of Suck-Suck (SCSC), respectively You-Suck (USC) was.
> And don't try to tell me it's a gator 'cause I happen to know that is UofF and his name was Albert
> last time I saw him.

Dear Per,

The SCSC and USC mascot was originally a politically incorrect American Indian of undetermined
tribal affiliation. I always favored the lesser-known tribes accused of cannibalism.

The Indian was replaced in USC's latter days by the politically correct but absurd "Thunder Wolves,"
which gave rise to crude jokes about a pack of flatulent canis lupus, constantly peering behind
themselves to see what the odd noises are.

The University of Colorado at Boulder has always prided itself on its buffalo mascot, usually
restrained on the field by a team of cheerleaders and quite tasty when properly barbecued.

Naturally, American Indians, wolves, and buffalo are quite scarce in Colorado. But the "CU Coyotes"
or the "USC Turkey Vultures" never caught on.

Colorado College and the University of Denver, the two chief private institutions, chose tigers and
pioneers as their mascots, the one from a box of frosted flakes and the other from forgotten
grandparents.

Carl Fogel
 
"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Carl Fogel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > when I was haranguing helpless students about our friend the apostrophe.
>
> I wish you had harangued our friends the data entry clerks a bit more. An apostrophe in one's name
> is a curse...
>
> "Oh, I see what the problem is, you have one of those little hyphen-things in your name..."
>
> Matt O.

Dear Matt,

Cheer up.

You could have been named Matthew Van der Loon, known as Van, Matthew D.L., or as Der Loon, Matthew
V., or as Loon, Matthew V.D.

Or your father might have married a woman who chose to keep her maiden name, producing a child known
as Matthew O'Toole-Van der Loon, who might have fallen in love with Amy Louise Smith-Johnson,
producing a son known as Matthew O'Toole-Van der Loon-Smith-Johnson, Jr.

There are reasons for simplifying names, accent marks, and general punctuation.

Carl Fogel
 
[email protected] (Carl Fogel) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Jeff Starr) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (Carl Fogel) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Dear Jeff,
>
> I'm rarely serious, but never clipped-in.
>
> I'm tempted by the idea of enhancing my already awe-inspiring performance, but the cost,
> complexity, tales of knee problems, and explanations about how tricky it is to unclip the
> uppermost foot in action all combine to provide me with enough excuses to avoid having "my feet
> trapped," as you put it.
>
> The safety advantage sounds interesting, but my feet never seem to bounce off the pedals. I
> thought that this problem was confined to recumbents.
>
> Like my basset hound, I'm wary of putting my paws into traps. As an unreformed trials rider, I
> shudder just as violently at the notion of not being able to get a foot down instantly as I do
> when someone drags a clipless pedal across a blackboard.
>
> Out of curiosity, what exactly is the power advantage of being attached to the pedal?
>
> That is, does it reduce wasteful sliding on the downstroke?
>
> Judging by Jobst Brandt's comments about how using more muscles is useless except in short
> sprints, it seems unlikely that the ability to pull up on the pedal is of much value.
>
> Yours for foot freedom,
>
> Carl Fogel

Carl, they are not hard to get out of and after a while, it becomes instinctive. Properly adjusted,
using a pedal/cleat that has float, I have had no knee problems either. I did feel it in the knee,
before I got the first set adjusted, to my liking. That was a Shimano SH-PDM324 SPD, the ideal first
clipless pedal, as it is a platform, with clipless on one side and a regular platform on the other.
I believe that both Nashbar and Performance have a lower cost version of this pedal. I now have the
324s on my old French road bike.

I ride with an artificial leg, so I had some problems with that leg coming off when I hit bumps.
Although the other leg feels more secure too. I benefit performance wise, by being able to pull up
on the pedal and that I have better control of the pedal. If you get a set like the 324, you don't
have to always be clipped in. It's nice in stop and start situations. Although even that isn't a big
deal. I have Shimano SPD-SL road pedals on my LeMond and I have no problems with them, either.

When I was first learning to use them, I paid a lot of attention to them. I made sure that I
disengaged early enough and didn't let my mind wander. It was the only new thing on or about the
bike, so I could show it my full attention. I wouldn't have wanted to be learning a new bike, maybe
with different shifters and also be learning to use clipless pedals at the same time. Give them a
try, I was hesitant, but I'm glad I did it. Life is Good! Jeff
 
Carl Fogel writes:

> I'm rarely serious, but never clipped-in.

> I'm tempted by the idea of enhancing my already awe-inspiring performance, but the cost,
> complexity, tales of knee problems, and explanations about how tricky it is to unclip the
> uppermost foot in action all combine to provide me with enough excuses to avoid having "my feet
> trapped," as you put it.

This is an old fogy's phobia and maybe it has validity for the elders who haven't fallen off a
bicycle since they were in grade school. Feet attached to pedals is such an advantage in pedaling
that once used, one wonders how anyone gets along without it. I recall when Christophe clips and
Binda straps vanished from most bicycle shops, it was high time to change.

I recall often seeing riders lying on the ground who forgot that they could not wiggle back out of
their straps at stops, voluntary or otherwise. Some took longer than others to learn but it
remains the same that step-in pedals disengage easier and faster than straps, it just requires a
different motion.

> The safety advantage sounds interesting, but my feet never seem to bounce off the pedals. I
> thought that this problem was confined to recumbents.

I don't know why they should be safer. I haven't felt threatened by feet attached to pedals, with
straps or step in pedals.

http://tinyurl.com/pd86

If you consider riding up grades like this for more than two hours on end, I think pedal attachment
would recommend itself quickly. I for one find this easier with my SPD's than with straps, and
definitely better than with no attachment at all.

> Like my basset hound, I'm wary of putting my paws into traps. As an unreformed trials rider, I
> shudder just as violently at the notion of not being able to get a foot down instantly as I do
> when someone drags a clipless pedal across a blackboard.

It's only a "trap" in the mind's eye. I find it the opposite. The feet won't fall off the pedals
even in the roughest cobblestone or patchwork road.

> Out of curiosity, what exactly is the power advantage of being attached to the pedal?

You don't need to shift down (slow down) over short bumps by applying a strong upward pull and you
don't worry about coming off the pedal on rough stuff. I climb many hills standing, where cadence is
lower than sitting and pulling up is natural with an extended leg.

> That is, does it reduce wasteful sliding on the downstroke?

> Judging by Jobst Brandt's comments about how using more muscles is useless except in short
> sprints, it seems unlikely that the ability to pull up on the pedal is of much value.

That applies to round pedaling, not pulling up on a steep section or sprinting, where a bit of
afterburner power is available. Pushing forward and pulling back on top and bottom of strokes is
wasteful because these muscles are not otherwise used.

I don't know of a rider who can ride up 15+ percent grades without pulling up. I'm sure it can be
done but in a gear so low that it is slower than with pulling up. The limit is ultimately how hard
you can breathe if the hill is long. I've seen a few.

http://tinyurl.com/2bdbr

Jobst Brandt [email protected]
 
Carl Fogel wrote:
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Carl Fogel wrote:
>>> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:<[email protected]>...
>>>> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>>>>> perelmsater writes(?)-<< WAYGTTUWTM >><BR><BR>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why Are You Gooning The Time Up With Trivial Messages(?)
>>>>>
>>>>> A if this isn't trivial enuff....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nice try ;) No it was more like When Are You Going To Tell US What This Means
>>>>
>>>> Of course reffering to the already snipped parts of our conversation.
>>>
>>> Dear Per,
>>>
>>> Here's the scholarly edition, with footnotes appended!
>>>
>>> Sixty-seven degrees now, time for my daily ride.
>>>
>>> Carl Fogel
>>>
>>> carl-<< Sixty-six degrees[1] Sunday[2]. Rode in my shorts[3] at half-past noon. My, what a
>>> difference a hundred miles[4] makes!
>>>
>>> Carl Fogel Pueblo, CO[5] >><BR><BR>
>>>
>>> I went to HS[6] in Colorado Springs[7], my brother in Pueblo when USC was SCSC[8]...the bad old
>>> days when Pueblo had the steel mills[9] but I have been there lately and it IS a nice place....
>>>
>>> Peter Chisholm
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. A pleasant temperature described by a scale better suited to measuring human comfort than
>>> certain other scales. Pleasant temperatures are more common in Pueblo in December than in
>>> Boulder, a fact that I feared Peter might not be sufficiently aware of.
>>>
>>> 2. A day on which people like Peter sometimes find out what my whole week feels like. I was far
>>> too noble to rub his nose in this example of cosmic injustice--that's what footnotes are for.
>>>
>>> 3. An article of clothing replaced by long cycling tights below 60 degrees by pampered cyclists.
>>> Not worn at 7am in the snow in Boulder, either.
>>>
>>> 4. A rough approximation of the distance between Peter in Boulder and me in Pueblo, using
>>> another scale scorned on the eastern side of the Atlantic.
>>>
>>> 5. A postal abbreviation signifying the only truly rectangular state in the Union--except that
>>> if you get a good map, you can see where envious Wyoming and wicked New Mexico have carved
>>> tiny strips off the top and bottom. We taught New Mexico its place at the battle of Glorieta
>>> Pass and stand ready to repeat the lesson if Wyoming gets too big for its britches.
>>>
>>> 6. An abbreviation for "high school," a place where children in the U.S. are kept of out the
>>> labor pool and in the dark.
>>>
>>> 7. A city lying roughly half-way between Pueblo and Boulder, whose polluted sky is now visible
>>> fifty miles away, a source of great comfort to Puebloans, who endured comments about their
>>> steel mill for decades.
>>>
>>> 8. A particularly sad example of the Colorado state system of higher education, Southern
>>> Colorado State College in Pueblo had a president, vice-president, and dean for over 7,000
>>> students. Like any bureaucracy, it obeyed Parkinson's Law, aspired to greater grandeur,
>>> renamed itself the University of Southern Colorado, left its campus for a new site, and soon
>>> had 2,000 fewer students, but five times as many officials at he rank of dean or higher.
>>> Formerly known to its inmates as Suck-Suck (SCSC), it became You-Suck (USC) when I was
>>> haranguing helpless students about our friend the apostrophe. It now rejoices in the
>>> unsullied name of the Colorado State University at Pueblo, without any practical change
>>> beyond a further increase in administrators. Meanwhile, Pueblo Community College keeps doing
>>> a good job of teaching welding and other practical skills at the original site a few blocks
>>> from my home.
>>>
>>> 9. The Colorado Fuel and Iron Corporation in its heyday shot strikers at the nearby Ludlow coal
>>> mines, but fell upon hard times after the happy decades following the Second World War and
>>> eventually converted largely to electric arc furnaces before being sold to Oregon Steel, a
>>> company that declined to entertain various pension schemes and union demands. The striking
>>> workers are still holding annual rallies, but after five years or so they seem to have lost
>>> some enthusiasm. Even in what Peter calls the bad old days, the pollution from the steel
>>> mills blew mostly east, away from town and into the prairies toward Kansas, and was usually
>>> measured at less than the pollution in Colorado Springs, where the wind often traps the smog
>>> up against Pikes Peak. In the bad old days, the steel mill workers also made a lot more
>>> money.
>>>
>>> The chief industry of the People's Republic of Boulder is the main campus of the University of
>>> Colorado. A close second, I hope, is the sale of Campagnolo bicycles.
>>
>>
>> Thankyou Carl. Everything is clear as daylight now. You only left out one very important item and
>> that is what the mascot of the football team of Suck-Suck (SCSC), respectively You-Suck (USC)
>> was. And don't try to tell me it's a gator 'cause I happen to know that is UofF and his name was
>> Albert last time I saw him.
>
> Dear Per,
>
> The SCSC and USC mascot was originally a politically incorrect American Indian of undetermined
> tribal affiliation. I always favored the lesser-known tribes accused of cannibalism.
>
> The Indian was replaced in USC's latter days by the politically correct but absurd "Thunder
> Wolves," which gave rise to crude jokes about a pack of flatulent canis lupus, constantly peering
> behind themselves to see what the odd noises are.
>
> The University of Colorado at Boulder has always prided itself on its buffalo mascot, usually
> restrained on the field by a team of cheerleaders and quite tasty when properly barbecued.
>
> Naturally, American Indians, wolves, and buffalo are quite scarce in Colorado. But the "CU
> Coyotes" or the "USC Turkey Vultures" never caught on.
>
> Colorado College and the University of Denver, the two chief private institutions, chose tigers
> and pioneers as their mascots, the one from a box of frosted flakes and the other from forgotten
> grandparents.
>
> Carl Fogel

I think the You-Suck Turkey Vultures would have been rather perfect ;) Thank you again Carl for
enlightening us.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
[email protected] wrote in message news:<s%[email protected]>...

> Carl Fogel writes:

> > The safety advantage sounds interesting, but my feet never seem to bounce off the pedals. I
> > thought that this problem was confined to recumbents.
>
> I don't know why they should be safer. I haven't felt threatened by feet attached to pedals, with
> straps or step in pedals.

I think Carl is referring to the safety advantge of either system versus no system. There is a
greater risk of the foot sliding or bouncing off the pedal if nothing is holding it on there. With
recumbents there is the spectre of the dreaded "leg suck" where the foot hits the road and the leg
gets drawn under the seat.

--
Dave...
 
[email protected] (Dave Kahn) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] wrote in message news:<s%[email protected]>...
>
> > Carl Fogel writes:
>
> > > The safety advantage sounds interesting, but my feet never seem to bounce off the pedals. I
> > > thought that this problem was confined to recumbents.
> >
> > I don't know why they should be safer. I haven't felt threatened by feet attached to pedals,
> > with straps or step in pedals.
>
> I think Carl is referring to the safety advantge of either system versus no system. There is a
> greater risk of the foot sliding or bouncing off the pedal if nothing is holding it on there. With
> recumbents there is the spectre of the dreaded "leg suck" where the foot hits the road and the leg
> gets drawn under the seat.

Dear Dave,

Yes, I was wondering about Jeff's idea that being clipped-in is safer because it keeps feet from
bouncing off the pedals.

I'd read about bounce-off and slip-off being a problem on recumbents because the rider's feet aren't
underneath, but I'd never heard about "leg suck" being the consequence and now have another reason
to avoid those dangerous contraptions.

Thanks,

Carl Fogel
 
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