Shimano SPD Clippless pedals

[Wayne T]

I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They are so easy to release and
have saved my skin a number of times. However, last year my wife wanted a pair. I got her the
latest Shimano, a 900 series, I forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest
tension setting, they don't seem to be all that easy to release. I'm not sure if it is the pedals
or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes, where as mine is a size 12. Does anyone know
the answer?

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Wayne T wrote:

> I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They are so easy to release and
> have saved my skin a number of times. However, last year my wife wanted a pair. I got her the
> latest Shimano, a 900 series, I forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest
> tension setting, they don't seem to be all that easy to release. I'm not sure if it is the pedals
> or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes, where as mine is a size 12. Does anyone know
> the answer?

There are several different models of SPD cleats. The easiest releasing ones are the silver SH55
"Multi-release" model.

See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&ID=15263

Sheldon "Hi Yo, Silver, Away!" Brown +----------------------------------------------------------+
| And what are all these mysteries to me, | Whose life is full of indices and surds? | x^2 +
| 7x + 53 |
| = 11/3 --Lewis Carroll |
+----------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

wdunlap-<< I got her the latest Shimano, a 900 series, I forget the exact number. Unfortunately,
even at the lightest tension setting, they don't seem to be all that easy to release.

Grind down the rubber 'pontoons, the things you walk on, in an area adjacent to the cleat. Perhaps
the pontoon is hitting the pedal making the cleat into pedal tension very high. Not uncommon on
small shoes.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Peter Cole]

"Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They are so easy to release and
> have saved my skin a number of times. However, last year my wife wanted a pair. I got her the
> latest Shimano, a 900 series, I forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest
> tension setting, they don't seem to be all that easy to release. I'm not sure if it is the pedals
> or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes, where as mine is a size 12. Does anyone know
> the answer?

To expand on earlier replies:

Shimano pedals come with black or silver cleats. The black (single-release) only let go by moving
the heel in or out, the silver (multi-release) also let go by rolling the foot to the outside. I
use all silver cleats, & always unclip with a rolling motion, myself, I can't use the black
cleats at all.

With the shoes clipped in, look at where the pedal body is in contact with the rubber sole. It may
block the rotation, making unclipping harder. In other cases it is being compressed, making the
unclipping easier, but the security of the connection less predictable. Trimming the cleat pocket is
part of fitting SPD clears.

Finally, often pedals, particularly new ones, benefit from being lubed at the cleat/pedal contact.

 

[Robin Hubert]

"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]donbrown.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wayne T wrote:
>
> > I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They are
so
> > easy to release and have saved my skin a number of times. However, last year my wife wanted a
> > pair. I got her the latest Shimano, a 900 series,
I
> > forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest tension setting, they don't seem to
> > be all that easy to release. I'm not sure
if it
> > is the pedals or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes, where
as
> > mine is a size 12. Does anyone know the answer?
>
> There are several different models of SPD cleats. The easiest releasing ones are the silver SH55
> "Multi-release" model.
>
> See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&ID=15263

Yes, Sheldon, but you aren't supposed to use them on the 959's, as they "may cause unwanted
release". Use the SH51 (black, single release) only, since the float is built into the pedal.

Robin Hubert

 

[David Kunz]

Wayne T wrote:
> I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They are so easy to release and
> have saved my skin a number of times. However, last year my wife wanted a pair. I got her the
> latest Shimano, a 900 series, I forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest
> tension setting, they don't seem to be all that easy to release. I'm not sure if it is the pedals
> or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes, where as mine is a size 12. Does anyone know
> the answer?
>

I retired my 959's because they release TOO easily -- almost no resistence to turning, and tighening
them doesn't help. At first, they weren't too bad, but they got worse as the broke in.

David

 

[Kinkycowboy]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:22:11 GMT, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Wayne T wrote:
>>
>> > I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They are
>so
>> > easy to release and have saved my skin a number of times. However, last year my wife wanted a
>> > pair. I got her the latest Shimano, a 900 series,
>I
>> > forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest tension setting, they don't seem
>> > to be all that easy to release. I'm not sure
>if it
>> > is the pedals or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes, where
>as
>> > mine is a size 12. Does anyone know the answer?
>>
>> There are several different models of SPD cleats. The easiest releasing ones are the silver SH55
>> "Multi-release" model.
>>
>> See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&ID=15263
>
>Yes, Sheldon, but you aren't supposed to use them on the 959's, as they "may cause unwanted
>release". Use the SH51 (black, single release) only, since the float is built into the pedal.
>
> Robin Hubert
>
Using SH55 cleats with PD-M959s does cause some unwanted releases, but this may or may not be a
problem for particular riders. I tried the
55/959 combination without the unwanted release being particularly problematic, though it happened
often enough that I've switched back to SH51 cleats for XC racing. I'm 6'1" & 190lb, so I'm
probably putting bigger off centre loads through the cleat than a small woman riding smooth
trails. The SH55s may therefore be the answer, against Shimanos advice, if you've already checked
for interference between the shoe and pedal during release. For $15, it's worth a try compared
with writing off a $100 pedal. Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

 

[Wayne T]

"KinkyCowboy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:22:11 GMT, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Wayne T wrote:
> >>
> >> > I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They
are
> >so
> >> > easy to release and have saved my skin a number of times. However,
last
> >> > year my wife wanted a pair. I got her the latest Shimano, a 900
series,
> >I
> >> > forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest tension setting, they don't seem
> >> > to be all that easy to release. I'm not
sure
> >if it
> >> > is the pedals or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes,
where
> >as
> >> > mine is a size 12. Does anyone know the answer?
> >>
> >> There are several different models of SPD cleats. The easiest
releasing
> >> ones are the silver SH55 "Multi-release" model.
> >>
> >> See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&ID=15263
> >
> >Yes, Sheldon, but you aren't supposed to use them on the 959's, as they
"may
> >cause unwanted release". Use the SH51 (black, single release) only,
since
> >the float is built into the pedal.
> >
> > Robin Hubert
> >
> Using SH55 cleats with PD-M959s does cause some unwanted releases, but this may or may not be a
> problem for particular riders. I tried the
> 55/959 combination without the unwanted release being particularly problematic, though it happened
> often enough that I've switched back to SH51 cleats for XC racing. I'm 6'1" & 190lb, so I'm
> probably putting bigger off centre loads through the cleat than a small woman riding smooth
> trails. The SH55s may therefore be the answer, against Shimanos advice, if you've already
> checked for interference between the shoe and pedal during release. For $15, it's worth a try
> compared with writing off a $100 pedal.

Good point. They seem like nice pedals. But if that doesn't do the trick, then safety overrides
everything.
> Kinky Cowboy
>
> *Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

 

[Wayne T]

"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They are
so
> > easy to release and have saved my skin a number of times. However, last year my wife wanted a
> > pair. I got her the latest Shimano, a 900 series,
I
> > forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest tension setting, they don't seem to
> > be all that easy to release. I'm not sure
if it
> > is the pedals or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes, where
as
> > mine is a size 12. Does anyone know the answer?
>
> To expand on earlier replies:
>
> Shimano pedals come with black or silver cleats. The black
(single-release)
> only let go by moving the heel in or out, the silver (multi-release) also
let
> go by rolling the foot to the outside. I use all silver cleats, & always unclip with a rolling
> motion, myself, I can't use the black cleats at all.

I'll have to double check but I think my wife's cleats are silver. I find that I can release my
cleats either with the heel in or out or by using a rolling motion. However, I think I might be
moving the heel slightly in or out when I do this.
>
> With the shoes clipped in, look at where the pedal body is in contact with
the
> rubber sole. It may block the rotation, making unclipping harder. In other

The shoes are mountain bike shoes so that you can walk more easily with them.

> cases it is being compressed, making the unclipping easier, but the
security
> of the connection less predictable. Trimming the cleat pocket is part of fitting SPD clears.
>
> Finally, often pedals, particularly new ones, benefit from being lubed at
the
> cleat/pedal contact.

 

[Robin Hubert]

Let me add one more comment ... I can't imagine the 959's being difficult to release. I'm using this
pedal on all my bikes, and at the lowest tension setting, they are ridiculously easy to exit from.

The hard advice is, your wife should learn to exit from them. There's no reason she shouldn't be
strong enough. And forget about releasing inward. I can see your wife flippity flopping, trying to
decide which way to go and going nowhere until she hits the ground.

Robin Hubert

"Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "KinkyCowboy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:22:11 GMT, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >news:[email protected]...
> > >> Wayne T wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them.
They
> are
> > >so
> > >> > easy to release and have saved my skin a number of times. However,
> last
> > >> > year my wife wanted a pair. I got her the latest Shimano, a 900
> series,
> > >I
> > >> > forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest
tension
> > >> > setting, they don't seem to be all that easy to release. I'm not
> sure
> > >if it
> > >> > is the pedals or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes,
> where
> > >as
> > >> > mine is a size 12. Does anyone know the answer?
> > >>
> > >> There are several different models of SPD cleats. The easiest
> releasing
> > >> ones are the silver SH55 "Multi-release" model.
> > >>
> > >> See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&ID=15263
> > >
> > >Yes, Sheldon, but you aren't supposed to use them on the 959's, as they
> "may
> > >cause unwanted release". Use the SH51 (black, single release) only,
> since
> > >the float is built into the pedal.
> > >
> > > Robin Hubert
> > >
> > Using SH55 cleats with PD-M959s does cause some unwanted releases, but this may or may not be a
> > problem for particular riders. I tried the
> > 55/959 combination without the unwanted release being particularly problematic, though it
> > happened often enough that I've switched back to SH51 cleats for XC racing. I'm 6'1" & 190lb,
> > so I'm probably putting bigger off centre loads through the cleat than a small woman riding
> > smooth trails. The SH55s may therefore be the answer, against Shimanos advice, if you've
> > already checked for interference between the shoe and pedal during release. For $15, it's
> > worth a try compared with writing off a $100 pedal.
>
> Good point. They seem like nice pedals. But if that doesn't do the
trick,
> then safety overrides everything.
> > Kinky Cowboy
> >
> > *Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

 

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:37:34 -0500, Sheldon Brown wrote:

> Wayne T wrote:
>
>> I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They are so easy to release and
>> have saved my skin a number of times. However, last year my wife wanted a pair. I got her the
>> latest Shimano, a 900 series, I forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest
>> tension setting, they don't seem to be all that easy to release. I'm not sure if it is the pedals
>> or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes, where as mine is a size 12. Does anyone know
>> the answer?
>
> There are several different models of SPD cleats. The easiest releasing ones are the silver SH55
> "Multi-release" model.
>
> See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&ID=15263

I am not sure that the Shimano 959 pedal accepts the SH55 cleat. I vaguely recall a sternly worded
warning in the data sheet that came with my 959s that cautioned only to use the 'single release'
cleat that was used on the 747.

Of course, contradicting Sheldon is usually a foolish thing to do, and I don't have the data sheet
here, but what would it hurt to look? It could be very bad if you use the wrong cleat on a pedal --
one of the reasons the 858 got such a bad rep is that it required its own non-standard cleat ro work
reliably (i.e., let you out all the time). The single-release cleat used with the 747 would click in
OK, but for a large number of people simply would not let them out (I learned this when the stoker
on my tandem had to take her shoe off to get out of the pedal!) and people crashed as a result.

 

[Wayne T]

"Steve Palincsar" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:37:34 -0500, Sheldon Brown wrote:
>
> > Wayne T wrote:
> >
> >> I own a pair of Shimano SPD 747 clipless pedals. I love them. They are so easy to release and
> >> have saved my skin a number of times. However, last year my wife wanted a pair. I got her the
> >> latest Shimano, a 900 series, I forget the exact number. Unfortunately, even at the lightest
> >> tension setting, they don't seem to be all that easy to release. I'm not sure if it is the
> >> pedals or the fact that my wife has a woman's size 4 shoes, where as mine is a size 12. Does
> >> anyone know the answer?
> >
> > There are several different models of SPD cleats. The easiest releasing ones are the silver SH55
> > "Multi-release" model.
> >
> > See: http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&ID=15263
>
>
> I am not sure that the Shimano 959 pedal accepts the SH55 cleat. I vaguely recall a sternly worded
> warning in the data sheet that came with my 959s that cautioned only to use the 'single release'
> cleat that was used on the 747.
>
> Of course, contradicting Sheldon is usually a foolish thing to do, and I don't have the data sheet
> here, but what would it hurt to look? It could be very bad if you use the wrong cleat on a pedal
> -- one of the reasons the 858 got such a bad rep is that it required its own non-standard cleat ro
> work reliably (i.e., let you out all the time).
Funny, I almost got my wife the 858's but, fortunately read some of the writeups on it about the
problems and that the 959's corrected the problem. Here I thought I was getting her better pedals in
the 959's than my 747s. Now, I'm not sure, but like I said, maybe they will loosen up in time plus,
perhaps, my wife's smaller shoes is another reason the clips are some what tight.

The single-release
> cleat used with the 747 would click in OK, but for a large number of people simply would not let
> them out (I learned this when the stoker on my tandem had to take her shoe off to get out of the
> pedal!) and people crashed as a result.

 

[Peter Cole]

"Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Funny, I almost got my wife the 858's but, fortunately read some of the writeups on it about the
> problems and that the 959's corrected the problem. Here I thought I was getting her better pedals
> in the 959's than my 747s. Now, I'm not sure, but like I said, maybe they will loosen up in time
> plus, perhaps, my wife's smaller shoes is another reason the clips are some what tight.

Give her the 747's. Next question.

 

[Kinkycowboy]

On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 21:55:08 GMT, "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Funny, I almost got my wife the 858's but, fortunately read some of the writeups on it about the
>> problems and that the 959's corrected the problem. Here I thought I was getting her better pedals
>> in the 959's than my 747s. Now, I'm not sure, but like I said, maybe they will loosen up in time
>> plus, perhaps, my wife's smaller shoes is another reason the clips are some what tight.
>
>Give her the 747's. Next question.
>
OK, next question is where he's supposed to get a discontinued pedal that everybody already reckons
is Shimano's best to date. I bet everybody has already cleaned out all the dealers who had some left
over after it became clear how much the 858s suck.

If you can't get along with the 959s, possibly by cheating and using the SH55 cleats, maybe a pedal
designed to work with the SH55s would be the best choice, i.e. the PD-M515. They're way cheap and
only 70g per pair heavier than the 959s.

Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

 

[Wayne T]

"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Funny, I almost got my wife the 858's but, fortunately read some of the writeups on it about the
> > problems and that the 959's corrected the
problem.
> > Here I thought I was getting her better pedals in the 959's than my
747s.
> > Now, I'm not sure, but like I said, maybe they will loosen up in time
plus,
> > perhaps, my wife's smaller shoes is another reason the clips are some
what
> > tight.
>
> Give her the 747's. Next question.

Let me get this straight. Are you suggesting that I give my wife my 747's and I take her 959's? Will
the cleats from her 959's work with them or will we have to switch cleats too?-- (my next question).
Did someone say that the 959's don't let you roll out of them like the 747's? If so, that could be
deadly to me since I am used to doing that.

 

[Wayne T]

"KinkyCowboy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 21:55:08 GMT, "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Funny, I almost got my wife the 858's but, fortunately read some of the writeups on it about
> >> the problems and that the 959's corrected the
problem.
> >> Here I thought I was getting her better pedals in the 959's than my
747s.
> >> Now, I'm not sure, but like I said, maybe they will loosen up in time
plus,
> >> perhaps, my wife's smaller shoes is another reason the clips are some
what
> >> tight.
> >
> >Give her the 747's. Next question.
> >
> OK, next question is where he's supposed to get a discontinued pedal that everybody already
> reckons is Shimano's best to date. I bet everybody has already cleaned out all the dealers who had
> some left over after it became clear how much the 858s suck.

Actually, I did ask Steve Bilenky if he had a source for the 747's. He said he did. Of course, if I
tell him to order a set, that might be a different story. Also, he might have meant that I should
swap my 747's with my wife's 959's. Trouble with that, I believe someone said that you can't release
the 959's with a rolling motion. Since I have gotten in a habit of doing that, I might end up
killing myself if I switch to the 959's. Hmm, just in case, does anyone know a mail order site for
the 747's.
>
> If you can't get along with the 959s, possibly by cheating and using the SH55 cleats, maybe a
> pedal designed to work with the SH55s would be the best choice, i.e. the PD-M515. They're way
> cheap and only 70g per pair heavier than the 959s.
>
> Kinky Cowboy
>
> *Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

 

[Kinkycowboy]

On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 05:09:23 GMT, "Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Actually, I did ask Steve Bilenky if he had a source for the 747's. He said he did. Of course, if I
>tell him to order a set, that might be a different story. Also, he might have meant that I should
>swap my 747's with my wife's 959's. Trouble with that, I believe someone said that you can't
>release the 959's with a rolling motion. Since I have gotten in a habit of doing that, I might end
>up killing myself if I switch to the 959's. Hmm, just in case, does anyone know a mail order site
>for the 747's.

You can "roll out" of the 959s if you use the SH55 cleats, against Shimano's advice. You may also
experience some unwanted releases, depending on your riding style and terrain. Since you already
have the 959s on your wife's bike, I suggest you get her to try the SH55 cleats; these are much
easier to release from the 959s than the correct SH51 cleats. I lowered the spring tension from 12
clicks to 8 clicks after switching from SH55s to SH51s with my 959s, and they're still harder to
get out of; the flipside is they're more secure, so your feet stay on the pedals through the
nadgery bits.

Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

 

[Robin Hubert]

"Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7K1%[email protected]ster.southeast.rr.com...
>
> "KinkyCowboy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 21:55:08 GMT, "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >"Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >news:[email protected]...
> > >> Funny, I almost got my wife the 858's but, fortunately read some of
the
> > >> writeups on it about the problems and that the 959's corrected the
> problem.
> > >> Here I thought I was getting her better pedals in the 959's than my
> 747s.
> > >> Now, I'm not sure, but like I said, maybe they will loosen up in time
> plus,
> > >> perhaps, my wife's smaller shoes is another reason the clips are some
> what
> > >> tight.
> > >
> > >Give her the 747's. Next question.
> > >
> > OK, next question is where he's supposed to get a discontinued pedal that everybody already
> > reckons is Shimano's best to date. I bet everybody has already cleaned out all the dealers who
> > had some left over after it became clear how much the 858s suck.
>
> Actually, I did ask Steve Bilenky if he had a source for the 747's. He
said
> he did. Of course, if I tell him to order a set, that might be a
different
> story. Also, he might have meant that I should swap my 747's with my
wife's
> 959's. Trouble with that, I believe someone said that you can't release
the
> 959's with a rolling motion. Since I have gotten in a habit of doing
that,
> I might end up killing myself if I switch to the 959's. Hmm, just in
case,
> does anyone know a mail order site for the 747's

What are you talking about!? Rolling motion? I think you're asking too much. Buy someone's worn out
cleats ... sounds like what you're looking for. .
> >
> > If you can't get along with the 959s, possibly by cheating and using the SH55 cleats, maybe a
> > pedal designed to work with the SH55s would be the best choice, i.e. the PD-M515. They're way
> > cheap and only 70g per pair heavier than the 959s.
> >
> > Kinky Cowboy
> >
> > *Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

 

[Peter Cole]

"Wayne T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:RE1%[email protected]...
>
> "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> > Give her the 747's. Next question.
>
>
> Let me get this straight. Are you suggesting that I give my wife my 747's and I take her 959's?

Yes.

> Will the cleats from her 959's work with them or will we have to switch cleats too?-- (my next
> question). Did someone say that the 959's don't let you roll out of them like the 747's?

Why don't you try it & get back to us?

> If so, that could be deadly to me since I am used to doing that.

Better you than your wife right? Personally, I think Wellgos are good enough for mine. Nobody
gets my 747s.

 

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 00:09:23 -0500, Wayne T wrote:

> Actually, I did ask Steve Bilenky if he had a source for the 747's. He said he did. Of course, if
> I tell him to order a set, that might be a different story. Also, he might have meant that I
> should swap my 747's with my wife's 959's. Trouble with that, I believe someone said that you
> can't release the 959's with a rolling motion. Since I have gotten in a habit of doing that, I
> might end up killing myself if I switch to the 959's. Hmm, just in case, does anyone know a mail
> order site for the 747's.

I believe Peter Jon White has 747s.