Shimano square taper BB with Campag cranks? Will they work?

[noom]

Hi all,
My first post here. Anyone know if the above combination will work?

Anyone tried it?

Cheers

 

[Werehatrack]

On 14 Dec 2006 19:59:52 -0800, "noom" <[email protected]> may
have said:

>Hi all,
>My first post here. Anyone know if the above combination will work?
>
>Anyone tried it?

Works just fine, as long as the BB is the right width.



--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[[email protected]]

Siew Cheun writes:

> Shimano square taper BB with Campag cranks?

> Does anyone know whether the above combination will work?

> Anyone tried it?

Rode the combination either way for years. No problem.

Jobst Brandt

 

[noom]

I got a bike which has a triple crankset, and is using a Shimano square
type bottom bracket. What size spindle would that be? I am just
trying to avoid having to take the BB out to check the sizing.

Thanks in advance.

[email protected] wrote:

> Siew Cheun writes:
>
> > Shimano square taper BB with Campag cranks?
>
> > Does anyone know whether the above combination will work?
>
> > Anyone tried it?
>
> Rode the combination either way for years. No problem.
>
> Jobst Brandt

 

[Lou Holtman]

noom wrote:
> I got a bike which has a triple crankset, and is using a Shimano square
> type bottom bracket. What size spindle would that be? I am just
> trying to avoid having to take the BB out to check the sizing.
>
> Thanks in advance.


Remove your cranks and measure. No need to remove your BB.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

 

[* * Chas]

"noom" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I got a bike which has a triple crankset, and is using a Shimano square
> type bottom bracket. What size spindle would that be? I am just
> trying to avoid having to take the BB out to check the sizing.
>
> Thanks in advance.

Frequently 122mm wide but as someone else suggested, remove crank arms and
measure width.

Chas.

 

[Chalo]

noom wrote:
[re: Shimano BB w/Campy cranks]
> Anyone know if the above combination will work?

Shimano spindles use a JIS taper, while Campagnolo cranks use a
slightly smaller ISO taper. Both standards have the same degree of
taper, but the dimension across the flats is smaller at the end of the
ISO taper.

This can pose two problems depending on the combination being used.
Shimano cranks fitted to a Campagnolo spindle may draw up all the way
without establishing the necessary pressure at the taper, while
Campagnolo cranks fitted to a Shimano spindle (as you describe) may not
press on far enough to adequately transmit the torque that pedal force
can generate.

In the worst case, the hole in the crank could be stripped out or the
spindle end broken off.

> Anyone tried it?

Lots of folks, but not me.

Chalo

 

[* * Chas]

"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> noom wrote:
> [re: Shimano BB w/Campy cranks]
> > Anyone know if the above combination will work?
>
> Shimano spindles use a JIS taper, while Campagnolo cranks use a
> slightly smaller ISO taper. Both standards have the same degree of
> taper, but the dimension across the flats is smaller at the end of the
> ISO taper.
>
> This can pose two problems depending on the combination being used.
> Shimano cranks fitted to a Campagnolo spindle may draw up all the way
> without establishing the necessary pressure at the taper, while
> Campagnolo cranks fitted to a Shimano spindle (as you describe) may not
> press on far enough to adequately transmit the torque that pedal force
> can generate.
>
> In the worst case, the hole in the crank could be stripped out or the
> spindle end broken off.
>
> > Anyone tried it?
>
> Lots of folks, but not me.
>
> Chalo
>

I thought that it was just the Campy cranks made after 1994 or so?

Chas.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

noom wrote:
> Hi all,
> My first post here. Anyone know if the above combination will work?
>
> Anyone tried it?
>
> Cheers

Both are 2 degrees but shimano BB spindle is actually largerthan Campag
in millimeters...so Campag crank will not go on the 'ideal' distance
and if you force it on, it will 'enlarge' the Campag crank flats...just
get a Campag BB, easy to find, not expensive.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

noom wrote:
> I got a bike which has a triple crankset, and is using a Shimano square
> type bottom bracket. What size spindle would that be? I am just
> trying to avoid having to take the BB out to check the sizing.
>
> Thanks in advance.

If A Campag triple, Campag BB would be 111mm or 115mm(if for an
oversized seattube), so if a shimano one and the chainline is proper,
probably a 107 or so...
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Siew Cheun writes:
> >
> > > Shimano square taper BB with Campag cranks?
> >
> > > Does anyone know whether the above combination will work?
> >
> > > Anyone tried it?
> >
> > Rode the combination either way for years. No problem.
> >
> > Jobst Brandt

 

[Werehatrack]

On 14 Dec 2006 23:04:55 -0800, "noom" <[email protected]> may
have said:

>I got a bike which has a triple crankset, and is using a Shimano square
>type bottom bracket. What size spindle would that be? I am just
>trying to avoid having to take the BB out to check the sizing.

You don't have to take it out, just measure the end-to-end length of
the shaft.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Bill Sornson]

Werehatrack wrote:

> You don't have to take it out, just measure the end-to-end length of
> the shaft.

Family newsgroup, buddy.

 

[[email protected]]

Siew Cheun writes:

>>> Shimano square taper BB with Campag cranks? Does anyone know
>>> whether the above combination will work? Anyone tried it?

>> Rode the combination either way for years. No problem.

> I got a bike with a triple chainwheel, and is using a Shimano square
> type bottom bracket. What size spindle would that be? I am just
> trying to avoid having to take the BB out to check the sizing.

What's the triple got to do with it? Put the crank on and see whether
the inner chainwheel clears the chainstay. That's all that counts.
You don't need to take it apart to do that.

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

noom wrote:
> Hi all,
> My first post here. Anyone know if the above combination will work?
>
> Anyone tried it?

I've done it the other way 'round-- Suntour Superbe track crank on
Campy BB.
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=103

Note, the minimum suggested torque for your crank bolt is 305 in. lbs.
That's pulling fairly hard out at the handle end of the torque wrench
in the pictures <g>.

The thought occurs to ask what kind of shape your BB is in. Lots of
miles, maybe due for replacement soon? --D-y

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

[email protected] wrote:
> noom wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > My first post here. Anyone know if the above combination will work?
> >
> > Anyone tried it?
>
> I've done it the other way 'round-- Suntour Superbe track crank on
> Campy BB.
> http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=103
>
> Note, the minimum suggested torque for your crank bolt is 305 in. lbs.
> That's pulling fairly hard out at the handle end of the torque wrench
> in the pictures <g>.

25 ft-lbs.not that much, what Campag recommends. Hmmm-going from memory
here but 110mm, ISO for Suntour double and 109mm ISO track, same as
Campag...
>
> The thought occurs to ask what kind of shape your BB is in. Lots of
> miles, maybe due for replacement soon? --D-y

 

[jim beam]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> noom wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> My first post here. Anyone know if the above combination will work?
>>>
>>> Anyone tried it?
>> I've done it the other way 'round-- Suntour Superbe track crank on
>> Campy BB.
>> http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=103
>>
>> Note, the minimum suggested torque for your crank bolt is 305 in. lbs.
>> That's pulling fairly hard out at the handle end of the torque wrench
>> in the pictures <g>.
>
> 25 ft-lbs.not that much, what Campag recommends. Hmmm-going from memory
> here but 110mm, ISO for Suntour double and 109mm ISO track, same as
> Campag...

it is indeed for suntour track - use a campy spindle.

>> The thought occurs to ask what kind of shape your BB is in. Lots of
>> miles, maybe due for replacement soon? --D-y
>

 

[[email protected]]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

(D-y testified):
> > I've done it the other way 'round-- Suntour Superbe track crank on
> > Campy BB.

(QspC responded):

>Hmmm-going from memory
> here but 110mm, ISO for Suntour double and 109mm ISO track, same as
> Campag...

I just put it on there, using what I had, which was/is an Athena sealed
BB. IMS axle length is 111. It's a previously used Superbe pista crank.
Chainline is right about at the 42.5 mm standard for 120OLD track hubs,
crank installed on carefully greased tapers, to the recommended torque,
per my ancient Crapsman cheapie bendy-style torque wrench. The crank
has "enough" use to show compatibility problems with the BB, I would
think, and thanks, Peter, for publishing your BB-mounting
recommendation to use teflon tape (I should have known!) on the RH cup
which solved the noise problem that only showed up after I changed
cranks on that BB, go figure.

> 25 ft-lbs.not that much, what Campag recommends. > >

The Park how-to photo shows 1) a human arm (not leg) operating the
torque wrench, 2) no pools of dripping sweat (<g>).

Well, one man's "fairly" is another man's "not that" tight. That's one
reason to measure with a reasonably accurate tool, plus perhaps
learning by observing what a given number reading feels like. Which,
personally, has changed a lot since my hands started staying clean
every day. --D-y

 

[Chalo]

* * Chas wrote:
>
> "Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Shimano spindles use a JIS taper, while Campagnolo cranks use a
> > slightly smaller ISO taper. Both standards have the same degree of
> > taper, but the dimension across the flats is smaller at the end of the
> > ISO taper.
>
> I thought that it was just the Campy cranks made after 1994 or so?

Campagnolo has never used JIS (Japanese) standards, and ISO square
taper was probably originally defined to standardize whatever Campy was
using.

Chalo

 

[* * Chas]

"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> * * Chas wrote:
> >
> > "Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Shimano spindles use a JIS taper, while Campagnolo cranks use a
> > > slightly smaller ISO taper. Both standards have the same degree of
> > > taper, but the dimension across the flats is smaller at the end of
the
> > > ISO taper.
> >
> > I thought that it was just the Campy cranks made after 1994 or so?
>
> Campagnolo has never used JIS (Japanese) standards, and ISO square
> taper was probably originally defined to standardize whatever Campy was
> using.
>
> Chalo
>

Check out this link to Phil Wood's web. Look at page 11 of the .PDF file:

Campagnolo = ISO Taper ('94 & later Campagnolo cranks)
JIS = JIS & older non Low Profile cranks ('93 & earlier Campagnolo cranks)
JIS Low Profile = JIS Low Profile taper (Low Profile cranks)

I haven't owned a set of Crampy cranks since 1982 so I don't know. I've
been using Phil and Shimano sealed bearing BB since then. I just picked up
a NR crank set on eBay for a Raleigh Pro I'm restoring so I'll be able to
check it out next week.

The only spindle taper compatibility problems I recall was between
Stronglight and Campy cranks and that was 30 years ago.

I've only run across 2 taper fit situations other than chainline issues.
They were with an old Nervar crank and an old Stronglight 49 crank. The
square tapers in both of these crankset were so stretched that the cranks
wouldn't seat on the taper without the spindle protruding so that the bolt
wouldn't hold them tight. Since these were old junker bikes with long
chainstays the solution was to add 1 or 2 washers under crank bolts.

BTW, I'm still running a Phil BB that's over 30 years old and has never
been serviced. I've had it in at least 5 different frames. So much for the
advantages of sealed bearing BBs.

Chas. retro grouch

 

[[email protected]]

* * Chas wrote:
> The only spindle taper compatibility problems I recall was between
> Stronglight and Campy cranks and that was 30 years ago.

Remember a somewhat kludge-y "parts box" fix (?); using a Stronglight
BB axle (#49 double road, I'd have to go look in the box for the axle
marks) with old "thin" Campy BB cups to have a working BB if the Campy
axle was MIA.

There was a line in an ancient Sutherland's manual IRT the crank
material being soft enough to adapt for less-than-perfect fit.
Whatever, "worked for me", including I'm sure (short of keeping a Parts
Box log <g>) going back to a Campy axle in a new complete (Sugino
sleeve, of course) Campy BB. --D-y