Shimano Ultegra vs. SRAM Rival

[tenrec]

I'm getting ready to buy a Trek Madone 4.7. The 2009 model uses Shimano Ultegra components; the 2010 comes with SRAM Rival. Is there any reason to prefer one over the other? The price is essentially the same. (I'm not used to either brand; I'm coming from a hybrid bike that uses grip shifters and no-name cantilever brakes.) Thanks!

 

[CSpeedster]

I'm getting ready to buy a Trek Madone 4.7. The 2009 model uses Shimano Ultegra components; the 2010 comes with SRAM Rival. Is there any reason to prefer one over the other? The price is essentially the same. (I'm not used to either brand; I'm coming from a hybrid bike that uses grip shifters and no-name cantilever brakes.) Thanks!

Do you plan on racing? If so the SRAM has a real nice double tap function that works really nicely even down near the bottom end od the drop handlebars. I think its Ultegra.. that has a very quite downshift. SRAM is a bit more noisy than higher-end Shimano but it still works very good.

Maybe try both shifting mechs at yout LBS, (local bike shop).. I did and I definitely went Rival over Shimano (105). I just found it more intuitive.

Im guessing your planning on racing since your picking a Trek Madone over a softer riding comfort race bike like the Roubaix or the Cannondale Synapse.

 

[kdelong]

I'm getting ready to buy a Trek Madone 4.7. The 2009 model uses Shimano Ultegra components; the 2010 comes with SRAM Rival. Is there any reason to prefer one over the other? The price is essentially the same. (I'm not used to either brand; I'm coming from a hybrid bike that uses grip shifters and no-name cantilever brakes.) Thanks!

SRAM has the double tap like CSpeedster says. Also, SRAM brifters can be rebuilt or repaired to a point, if you can find the parts. The only bad thing about SRAM is that there is virtually no customer service. They tend to ignore e-mails and calls.

Shimano has good customer service and the experience of many years of quality production. Shimano STI brifters cannot be rebuilt or repaired, however, if they break under warranty, they are really good about replacing them. If they wear out, they will be 3 or 4 generations old and you will probably want to replace them with upgraded stuff anyway.

But like CSpeedster said, the best thing to do is to try both out and see which one you like best and buy that one. 99.9% of the SRAM customers never need to call customer service and 99.9% of Shimano customers never have their STI brifters break.

 

[steve]

SRAM has the double tap like CSpeedster says.

Do you think that is an advantage? I've only used them once, I like both Shimano and Campagnolo shifters better.

 

[tenrec]

Im guessing your planning on racing since your picking a Trek Madone over a softer riding comfort race bike like the Roubaix or the Cannondale Synapse.

No, no racing at all. I have not found any LBS nearby that carries Cannondale or Specialized. The only other brand of road bike I've been able to test has been Giant, and I was unimpressed (Giant Defy Advanced). Am I missing something?

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I'm getting ready to buy a Trek Madone 4.7. The 2009 model uses Shimano Ultegra components; the 2010 comes with SRAM Rival. Is there any reason to prefer one over the other? The price is essentially the same. (I'm not used to either brand; I'm coming from a hybrid bike that uses grip shifters and no-name cantilever brakes.) Thanks!

Ride each lever and see. If you don't care, I'd get the shimano one. Campagnolo would be MY personal choice but it doesn't seem to be in the cards.

 

[CSpeedster]

Do you think that is an advantage? I've only used them once, I like both Shimano and Campagnolo shifters better.

Humm well some guys at a local shop think so, since you can pull back the lever towards the bar when just about at the bottom of the drops and hammer it. from what Ive read SRAM/Rival is quite durable and close to the performance of Force especially after the 2009 updates, SRAM Force is a bit lighter than Rival but thats about it.

SRAM hoods are a bit smaller than Shimano's.

So you should go to either the Cannondale or Specialized website and find a local retailer. Im extremely happy with my Cannondale Synapse 2009 for the roads I ride. The Roubaix is supposed to be a bit more comfort oriented than it.

If your happy with the way the Madone rides than maybe its the bike for you, around here some of the roads are to unforgiving, potholes elc, and I like to ride for a few hours at a time.. so I wanted a bike that could absorb the road vibrations nicely.

 

[alfeng]

I'm getting ready to buy a Trek Madone 4.7. The 2009 model uses Shimano Ultegra components; the 2010 comes with SRAM Rival. Is there any reason to prefer one over the other? The price is essentially the same. (I'm not used to either brand; I'm coming from a hybrid bike that uses grip shifters and no-name cantilever brakes.) Thanks!

Well, I'm going to make a suggestion which you may-or-may-not be inclined toward ...

BUT FIRST, why is a 2009 Madone going to cost the same as the 2010 model? The 2009 should be discounted by several hundred dollars.

On that basis of comparable price alone, I would buy the 2010 even though it has SRAM (!?!) shifters because I would pull the shifters & sell them on eBay ... "as new" pulls from a new bike.

I would concurrently buy a pair of pre-2009, non-QS Campagnolo 10-speed shifters & mate the shifter with the SRAM derailleurs ... it is a direct hook-up without any machinations.

By my reckoning, you can also use the 10-speed Campagnolo shifters with a 10-speed Shimano rear derailleur if you use the hubbub.com alternate rear derailleur anchoring (at 3 o'clock).

I don't know about the 2009 Campagnolo's Ultra Shift compatibility with OTHER front derailleurs because I thought someone/(Peter?) said that the front shifter doesn't have the multiple indexing options/notches which former Campagnolo shifters had ... if you (anyone) were inclined toward the 2009 Campagnolo shifters then s/he might have to buy a Campagnolo front derailleur, too.

Since I haven't used/tried a pair of 2009 Campagnolo shifters, I don't know how good-or-bad they are ... supposedly, the redesign makes them even more reliable than the old design (whose patent has undoubtedly expired) ... I don't know if that's company PR or a reality since few people have logged 10,000 miles on their 2009 shifters ... so, the amount of maintenance needed hasn't truly been established, yet.

Depending on the Campagnolo shifters you buy AND where you get them, you may end up with a "profit" (so to speak) after you swap out either the SRAM or Shimano levers for the Campagnolo levers (low/limited/no demand because of less advertising means lower prices in the "used" market [e.g., eBay]).

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Well, I'm going to make a suggestion which you may-or-may-not be inclined toward ...

BUT FIRST, why is a 2009 Madone going to cost the same as the 2010 model? The 2009 should be discounted by several hundred dollars.

On that basis of comparable price alone, I would buy the 2010 even though it has SRAM (!?!) shifters because I would pull the shifters & sell them on eBay ... "as new" pulls from a new bike.

I would concurrently buy a pair of pre-2009, non-QS Campagnolo 10-speed shifters & mate the shifter with the SRAM derailleurs ... it is a direct hook-up without any machinations.

By my reckoning, you can also use the 10-speed Campagnolo shifters with a 10-speed Shimano rear derailleur if you use the hubbub.com alternate rear derailleur anchoring (at 3 o'clock).

I don't know about the 2009 Campagnolo's Ultra Shift compatibility with OTHER front derailleurs because I thought someone/(Peter?) said that the front shifter doesn't have the multiple indexing options/notches which former Campagnolo shifters had ... if you (anyone) were inclined toward the 2009 Campagnolo shifters then s/he might have to buy a Campagnolo front derailleur, too.

Since I haven't used/tried a pair of 2009 Campagnolo shifters, I don't know how good-or-bad they are ... supposedly, the redesign makes them even more reliable than the old design (whose patent has undoubtedly expired) ... I don't know if that's company PR or a reality since few people have logged 10,000 miles on their 2009 shifters ... so, the amount of maintenance needed hasn't truly been established, yet.

Depending on the Campagnolo shifters you buy AND where you get them, you may end up with a "profit" (so to speak) after you swap out either the SRAM or Shimano levers for the Campagnolo levers (low/limited/no demand because of less advertising means lower prices in the "used" market [e.g., eBay]).

ALL 2009 UT left hand shifters are the multiple position shifters of old. Only the 'QS' shifters of 2007/8 Centaur, Veloce, Mirage and Xenon had the terrible positional LH shifter.

Take a look at the parts blowup at Campagnolo.com and you'll see the innards of 2009 levers are completely different and very robust.NO shift springs, no spring carrier, nothing to break.

BTW-Campagnolo 10s RH shifters and sram RDers shift shimano 10s spacing(narrower than Campagnolo 10s spacing).

 

[tenrec]

So you should go to either the Cannondale or Specialized website and find a local retailer. Im extremely happy with my Cannondale Synapse 2009 for the roads I ride. The Roubaix is supposed to be a bit more comfort oriented than it.

If your happy with the way the Madone rides than maybe its the bike for you, around here some of the roads are to unforgiving, potholes elc, and I like to ride for a few hours at a time.. so I wanted a bike that could absorb the road vibrations nicely.

I checked out many of the local dealers. Apparently this is the time of year when they have few or no bikes at all, as the model year changes over. There are no bikes for me to test except at the Trek dealers and the Giant dealer. I preferred the Madone over the Giant Defy Advance.

 

[tenrec]

BUT FIRST, why is a 2009 Madone going to cost the same as the 2010 model? The 2009 should be discounted by several hundred dollars.

On that basis of comparable price alone, I would buy the 2010 even though it has SRAM (!?!) shifters because I would pull the shifters & sell them on eBay ... "as new" pulls from a new bike.

That is a very good question. The dealer seems disinclined to discount the older bike, and the 2010 is about $20 more. Will I be getting ripped off?

Another thing -- all the mechanical work you describe is beyond my capabilities. I would have to pay for labor to do it, which seems like it would negate any cost savings I might otherwise realize.

 

[CSpeedster]

I checked out many of the local dealers. Apparently this is the time of year when they have few or no bikes at all, as the model year changes over. There are no bikes for me to test except at the Trek dealers and the Giant dealer. I preferred the Madone over the Giant Defy Advance.

Ic, you cant go wrong with a Madone, very sweet fast bike. I just got in from an unexpected 3 hour ride talk about killer near the end but I just kept pounding it as best I could =P Practice makes perfect timing.

Im new to Road biking especially, never tried a Giant Defy Advance.

 

[oldbobcat]

That is a very good question. The dealer seems disinclined to discount the older bike, and the 2010 is about $20 more. Will I be getting ripped off?

The $20 difference is negligible.

Check the Trek website for MSRPs. Most dealers will give you a price 5-8% lower than this with little or no dramatics.

 

[tenrec]

Check the Trek website for MSRPs. Most dealers will give you a price 5-8% lower than this with little or no dramatics.

I have shopped four Trek dealers in the last couple of months. ALL of them charge list price (MSRP) for their bikes. I keep wondering where are all the good deals I keep reading about!

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I have shopped four Trek dealers in the last couple of months. ALL of them charge list price (MSRP) for their bikes. I keep wondering where are all the good deals I keep reading about!

Well, remember that in a bike shop, the lowest margin item they sell...is bicycles. The 'cost' of the bike includes assembly, sales time, fitting(hopefully) and often free service after the sale. After all is said and done, a bicycle sale often shows a margin less than the minimum margin to stay in biz. Soft goods, accessories, repairs often make up the difference so in this economy, don't be surprised if there aren't a lot of 'deals' out there.

It's not like a car dealer that gets kickbacks and sweet deals from the factory when they sell a car. Vast majority of bicycle dealers pay for their inventory up front and if they discount it, they often lose money, meaning sell it at below minimum margin(generally recognized as 35%. Cost, divided by .65= price).

 

[alfeng]

No, no racing at all. I have not found any LBS nearby that carries Cannondale or Specialized. The only other brand of road bike I've been able to test has been Giant, and I was unimpressed (Giant Defy Advanced). Am I missing something?

Are you saying that TREK and GIANT are the only two bicycle brands sold in your area OR that those are the only two that you are interested enough to have tried?

While I'm sure Peter is correct with regard to profit margins, there are dozens of bikes which are sold with EITHER the Shimano Ultegra or SRAM shifters ...

So, unless you are wedded to buying a Trek (which seems to be the case), there are other options you should pursue because the Madone 4.7 is not the latest-and-greatest in the Trek lineup.

BTW. WHAT didn't you like about the Giant? Was it the same size frame? Were the components the same? Was it the same dealer or someplace else other than where the Trek was being sold?

So, just where do you live that there are only those two bikes to test ride?!?

What is your budget? $2600+ or $3500+?

 

[tenrec]

Are you saying that TREK and GIANT are the only two bicycle brands sold in your area OR that those are the only two that you are interested enough to have tried?

So, unless you are wedded to buying a Trek (which seems to be the case), there are other options you should pursue because the Madone 4.7 is not the latest-and-greatest in the Trek lineup.

BTW. WHAT didn't you like about the Giant? Was it the same size frame? Were the components the same? Was it the same dealer or someplace else other than where the Trek was being sold?

So, just where do you live that there are only those two bikes to test ride?!?

What is your budget? $2600+ or $3500+?

Trek and Giant are the only two I've been able to try. Most stores are saying they are between model years and don't have any or many bikes to try, particularly in my large frame size.

I've asked about other bike brands and again, have not found any to test ride. One LBS actually ordered a Madone 4.5 for me to try! I felt bad that I was not crazy about it, but it was a risk the owner was willing to take. I know the Madone 4.7 isn't top of the line, but I liked its shifting and braking better than the 4.5, and I like the ride quality better than on the 1.5 and 2.1 aluminum-framed models I tested.

I wasn't crazy about the Giants for a number of reasons: ride quality, shifting and braking, acceleration, etc. I think the Treks beat them in those areas. The Giant dealer was a different dealer than where I tested the Treks, but he also carries Trek.

My budget is up to around $2600 (before pedals, tax, and other incidentals -- so figure $3000.)

 

[alfeng]

Trek and Giant are the only two I've been able to try. Most stores are saying they are between model years and don't have any or many bikes to try, particularly in my large frame size.

I've asked about other bike brands and again, have not found any to test ride. One LBS actually ordered a Madone 4.5 for me to try! I felt bad that I was not crazy about it, but it was a risk the owner was willing to take. I know the Madone 4.7 isn't top of the line, but I liked its shifting and braking better than the 4.5, and I like the ride quality better than on the 1.5 and 2.1 aluminum-framed models I tested.

I wasn't crazy about the Giants for a number of reasons: ride quality, shifting and braking, acceleration, etc. I think the Treks beat them in those areas. The Giant dealer was a different dealer than where I tested the Treks, but he also carries Trek.

My budget is up to around $2600 (before pedals, tax, and other incidentals -- so figure $3000.)

The shifting & braking should be comparable -- if not the same -- if both have the same components OTHERWISE it's a matter of the dealer's setup.

I don't know about better acceleration of one bike over another ... it could have been the wheels ... how you felt on the particular day ... the roadway ... etc.

With regard to "ride quality" ... you should study the frame geometry on the two frames & ascertain what the differences are-or-aren't.

Presuming the geometry is different (head tube angle, etc.), then, use that information in culling/including other bikes to test ...

If the angles are the same & the virtual top tube is the same ... then the difference in the way you perceived the ride was probably how the bikes were set up OR how you were feeling at the given moment of time OR the gear you had the bike in OR the phase of the Moon OR ____ ...

BTW. Since you're apparently paying bust-out retail (presuming you're buying a Trek), you may as wait until February to buy the bike because in 3/4s of the country, the peak of the riding season is over ...

Again, where are you that the pickings are so slim AND what other bikes were you considering?

Other than NOT having any of those other brands, what was your impression of those OTHER bike shops?

At $2600+, there are a lot of options ...

 

[tenrec]

The shifting & braking should be comparable -- if not the same -- if both have the same components OTHERWISE it's a matter of the dealer's setup.

I don't know about better acceleration of one bike over another ... it could have been the wheels ... how you felt on the particular day ... the roadway ... etc.

With regard to "ride quality" ... you should study the frame geometry on the two frames & ascertain what the differences are-or-aren't.

Presuming the geometry is different (head tube angle, etc.), then, use that information in culling/including other bikes to test ...

If the angles are the same & the virtual top tube is the same ... then the difference in the way you perceived the ride was probably how the bikes were set up OR how you were feeling at the given moment of time OR the gear you had the bike in OR the phase of the Moon OR ____ ...

BTW. Since you're apparently paying bust-out retail (presuming you're buying a Trek), you may as wait until February to buy the bike because in 3/4s of the country, the peak of the riding season is over ...

Again, where are you that the pickings are so slim AND what other bikes were you considering?

Other than NOT having any of those other brands, what was your impression of those OTHER bike shops?

At $2600+, there are a lot of options ...

Well, I have noticed that shifting and braking varies, and of course some of that's due to the components, and some due to the way they are set up. I'm disappointed when a shop gives me a bike to test and it's sloppily assembled or adjusted, but it does happen.

As for acceleration, I'm sure the wheels are different on the different bike models! Also the crank lengths, and even the gearing. But I keep reading about bikes that "love to climb," or just accelerate easily, and I haven't found any like that so far.

As far as the frame geometries go, it seems they are all very similar, with only a few millimeters difference between tube lengths and angles. I have no way of making sense of these minor differences; I really need to ride the bikes to see how I like them. It's the job of the LBS, as I see it, to make sure it's set up properly for me.

As for waiting until February and/or paying full retail, here's what's happening now: I tested a 2009 Madone 4.7 last week and went in yesterday to have it set up properly for me. The same store has a 2008 Madone 5.5 in the same frame size on clearance for 25% off the original price. The difference between full retail price on the 4.7 and the clearance price of the 5.5 is just a few hundred dollars, so they are setting up the 5.5 for me in the same manner as the 4.7 and I'll be able to test and compare them side by side. The store manager says that, at that price, it's a "no brainer" to choose the 5.5, which is an OCLV full carbon frame with Dura-
Ace components. If it's as good as it's reputed to be, I may wind up with that bike this weekend!

Where I'm located is central New Jersey. There are lots of bike shops, but I haven't been successful in locating lots of bikes in my size. Some of the stores are willing to order bikes in for me to test, and some are very hesitant to do so without a commitment to buy, which for me is a Catch-22: I can't buy it without testing it, and I can't test it without buying it.

As for my impression of the various bike shops, some of them are very good and some are not. Some are willing to work with me to make a sale and some are not. Some staff or owners are very helpful and some are much less so. One owner, for example, prides himself on being a very skilled and thorough mechanic (and, in fact, I brought my Trek hybrid in to him for some repairs last week), but he has absolutely no bikes in my size to test, and isn't willing to order any without a committment to buy. He even has a raw frame I liked that he said he could build up for me, but again, I would have to buy it. And this without being able to test ride it!

So I'm doing the best I can with what's available. I've had my Trek 7500 for 11 years now and it's been virtually trouble-free; I'm happy with Trek as a brand and there's no reason I don't want to use them; I just wanted to see if there might be something a whole lot better that I was missing. Whether there is or isn't, it doesn't look as though I'll be able to find out for a while, or if it will even matter to me if I get one of the Madones.

 

[oldbobcat]

I just wanted to see if there might be something a whole lot better that I was missing.

There isn't. You still have to turn the cranks to make the bike go forward. After resolving the fit a good rider simply adjusts his technique to the bike.

The jump from a 7500 to a 5.5 Dura-Ace Madone is a bit of a quantum leap. You will be sufficiently impressed. Enjoy it.