Shimano vs. Campag

[vhino]

Now, I don't want to start a religious war, but I'm speccing out My First Decent Bike. For the group set, a good friend (who was born welded to a saddle, it seems) recommends Campag, but admits freely that's because it's what he's happy with and my mileage may vary.

So far so good. Oh, by the way, my budget is about £1000 (that's about 1500 of your feeelthy american dollars by today's outrageous exchange rates). Hey, it's a birthday present to me, I deserve it.

So I goes along to my local bike dealership, where I meet a helpful soul who explains that Shimano parts are easier to come by than campy parts, in case some minor component should fail. Well, OK, but I don't really expect to go through that many breakages, and I can probably stand to wait the (so I'm told) 4-week delay for repairs. Not sold on Shimano yet. He also recommended Mavic Cosmos wheels. Nice, but probably a shade higher spec than I'd intended. "Ring back tomorrow", says he "and speak to Matt who can help you s'more."

Still with me? Great.

So, I ring Matt. He's a senior player at the shop, apparently. I mention campy and there's a sharp intake of breath. "Hmm", says he, "I recommend shimano". I laughed and asked why, as one does, and he explained that although he used to ride campy exlusively he's shifted to shimano now 'cos (in comparison) campy is "clunky" and less comfy to use on longer distances. He also recommends handbuilt wheels (with standard spokes) to carry my 95Kg weight in case I break a spoke on the Mavics, in which case I'll clearly have to wait a number of weeks for some special Mavic part.

So, my question for the panel is this: is this man offering good advice, or is it likely that he has something specific he want to sell me (bearing in mind that the budget won't change in any case).

Cheers,

JonGreat

Hello guys, I'm just a newbie here and i don't know where to post so i decided to reply. i have some question that needed to be answered so i'd like you guys to be patient with me especially the bikes mechanics there.
My question is can i upgrade my bianchi nerone with 9s mirage components to a shimano 105 10s components,which part to change and which are not,can anyone help me please...

 

[John M]

Hello guys, I'm just a newbie here and i don't know where to post so i decided to reply. i have some question that needed to be answered so i'd like you guys to be patient with me especially the bikes mechanics there.
My question is can i upgrade my bianchi nerone with 9s mirage components to a shimano 105 10s components,which part to change and which are not,can anyone help me please...

Some people would not consider such a switch an "upgrade"

To switch from Campagnolo 9s to 105 10s, you would need to replace the shifters, rear derailleur, and rear hub/wheel and cassette, and chain with Shimano or shimano compatible. You should be able to use the existing Mirage crankset and front derailleur with the rest of the 105 drivetrain. This would be an expensive conversion.

If it is just the 105 shifters that is prompting your interest in a switch, you can use a Jtek shiftmate to allow use of the Shimano 10s shifter with the Campagnolo 9s drivetrain. Alternatively, you can use a different shiftmate to allow use of the Shimano shifters/rear derailleur with a campagnolo wheel--9s or 10s.

 

[vhino]

Some people would not consider such a switch an "upgrade"

To switch from Campagnolo 9s to 105 10s, you would need to replace the shifters, rear derailleur, and rear hub/wheel and cassette, and chain with Shimano or shimano compatible. You should be able to use the existing Mirage crankset and front derailleur with the rest of the 105 drivetrain. This would be an expensive conversion.

If it is just the 105 shifters that is prompting your interest in a switch, you can use a Jtek shiftmate to allow use of the Shimano 10s shifter with the Campagnolo 9s drivetrain. Alternatively, you can use a different shiftmate to allow use of the Shimano shifters/rear derailleur with a campagnolo wheel--9s or 10s.

Thanks for replying to my question John M, now that i know what to replace i'd like to post another question conserning my other racer.I have a bulls bike with sora component,maybe this i can upgrade and what part would i change to upgrade it to shimano 105,pls advise...thx!

 

[artemidorus]

Some people would not consider such a switch an "upgrade"

To switch from Campagnolo 9s to 105 10s, you would need to replace the shifters, rear derailleur, and rear hub/wheel and cassette, and chain with Shimano or shimano compatible. You should be able to use the existing Mirage crankset and front derailleur with the rest of the 105 drivetrain. This would be an expensive conversion.

If it is just the 105 shifters that is prompting your interest in a switch, you can use a Jtek shiftmate to allow use of the Shimano 10s shifter with the Campagnolo 9s drivetrain. Alternatively, you can use a different shiftmate to allow use of the Shimano shifters/rear derailleur with a campagnolo wheel--9s or 10s.

The only real upgrade would be the 105 crankset/BB, which I think is the area of Shimano's clearest lead. But it's still not worth your money. I'm waiting until my frame dies before I bother upgrading to 10spd...

 

[Insight Driver]

As the moderate non-emotional posters have chimed in, and the emotional and religious have said their piece I will put my opinion in.

First off, the bike shop guy is trying to sell you something. Discount what he says. Shimano Ultegra is a cheaper group than Chorus. You don't give up much. Only you can mix up in your own head the formula for the trade-offs you want to make. I personally would accept the Shimano and get better wheels. You won't go wrong with either companie's stuff.

 

[graf zeppelin]

This may not be too helpful, but I have always looked at the Campy vs. Shimano debate as similar to the Microsoft vs. Apple debate.

Odd. I am Mac user as well and never thought of this analogy.

I find Campy to be more elegant and fluid, Shimano to be industrial and crisp. I rode Shimano for years, but when it came time for me to have the option to get a new high end gruppo for a second bike, I chose Campy and even with the years experience on Shimano, Campy is hands down my favorite. It just makes me smile when I ride it. Your friend is, however, correct - your mileage may vary. I recommend test riding each since its your first go at it.

Also, I wouldnt put too much stock in those that say Shimano is so much easier to fix than Campy. You cant rebuild Shimano parts, but most Campy parts you can. Over my years riding this really hasnt even come into play very much between the two gruppos. Anything a LBS does not have in stock by way of Campy can be ordered and gotten in a few days or you can get it online and bring it with your bike to the LBS. I would not let this be a deciding factor for you. Ride each and decide.

Have fun choosing.

 

[John M]

Thanks for replying to my question John M, now that i know what to replace i'd like to post another question conserning my other racer.I have a bulls bike with sora component,maybe this i can upgrade and what part would i change to upgrade it to shimano 105,pls advise...thx!

If your sora is 8s, then you just need the 10s chain, cassette and shifters. The rest will probably work OK with the 10s. Front shifting probably won't be quite as good, but could be helped with a new large chainring made with ramps/pins for 10s chain, if needed.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Actually, I think the Campy/Shimano debate and the PC/Mac debate are approaching something akin to Coke vs Pepsi. Substantively, there's very little difference between the two. It comes down to personal preference and taste rather than any major performance or function differences.

John Swanson
www.bikephysics.com

Odd. I am Mac user as well and never thought of this analogy.

Have fun choosing.

 

[baj32161]

It always amuses me when people try to attach a "soul" to inanimate objects. That term is so cliche'.

It is like saying a certain bike lacks passion....utter nonsense. It is the rider that has passion, and maybe the designers...not the bike. Passion is a human emotion and a "soul" is an alleged characteristic of a cognizant, living thing.

Cheers,

Brian

 

[alfeng]

... Substantively, there's very little difference between the two. It comes down to personal preference and taste rather than any major performance or function differences.

That's NOT quite true ...

If you ride in hilly OR mountainous terrain, then you will find that the Campagnolo shifter will downshift under load without balking regardless of the jump in gears -- your results may vary.

However, if you are a Flatlander, then you may not notice a difference in efficiency.

 

[rule62]

Wwjr?

 

[alfeng]

... My question is can i upgrade my bianchi nerone with 9s mirage components to a shimano 105 10s components,which part to change and which are not,can anyone help me please...

There is no reason to change ... you will NOT experience better shifting performance (if that is what you are looking for) with the 105 shifters vs. ANY Campagnolo shifters ...

 

[alfeng]

Wwjr?

Well, JPII had a Campy equipped Colnago ...

 

[supergrill]

That's NOT quite true ...

If you ride in hilly OR mountainous terrain, then you will find that the Campagnolo shifter will downshift under load without balking regardless of the jump in gears -- your results may vary.

However, if you are a Flatlander, then you may not notice a difference in efficiency.

ROTFL

 

[artemidorus]

Odd. I am Mac user as well and never thought of this analogy.

I have always found this analogy to be obvious! Campy/Mac users go to town raving about the superiority of their equipment, while the Shimano/PC users wonder what all the fuss is about, having saved a few $$ (at least in Australia).

 

[Phill P]

Campy is cheaper in Australia depending on how you line it all up.

Record
DA
Chorus
Centuar Ultegra

Well thats how I feel it stacks up for the 07 gear now that campy has a 2 piece crank (infact centaur may be ahead of ultegra)

Centuar group sets were certainly cheaper than ultegra for 06, but 07 crank sets, levers, and rr derailer may push the price up.

Shimano wheels are cheaper....for a reason. Shimano wheels are good for thier price, but Campy wheels are fantastic!

Shimano needs to strike back, the performance and weight advantage for each price point is getting away from them. Thier OEM sales will help them remain profitable though


As for the point of this thread being bought back to life. Why bother replacing something that works? Modern gear all works well and lasts a long time, you won't go faster just by having more gears or 50gms less weight. Save your money and just ride more!

 

[lks]

Five years ago my Dura-Ace RH double shifter went out and Shimano would not sell any parts and it was long wait for repairs. I don't know if that is still their policy. Campy will sell you every shifter part, but about the only thing that will eventually wear out are the two inexpensive "G" springs. The cleanest/coolest look, is Campy with their cables routed inside or alongside the handlebars.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Actually, most Campy groups should be coming down in price despite all the upgrades. For example, the 2007 Centaur gets carbon shifters, the cool new cranks, and the skeleton brakes. Check out www.rullobike.com Their prices show a decrease for 2007, which is what was predicted.

John Swanson
www.bikephysics.com

Campy is cheaper in Australia depending on how you line it all up.

Record
DA
Chorus
Centuar Ultegra

Well thats how I feel it stacks up for the 07 gear now that campy has a 2 piece crank (infact centaur may be ahead of ultegra)

Centuar group sets were certainly cheaper than ultegra for 06, but 07 crank sets, levers, and rr derailer may push the price up.

Shimano wheels are cheaper....for a reason. Shimano wheels are good for thier price, but Campy wheels are fantastic!

Shimano needs to strike back, the performance and weight advantage for each price point is getting away from them. Thier OEM sales will help them remain profitable though


As for the point of this thread being bought back to life. Why bother replacing something that works? Modern gear all works well and lasts a long time, you won't go faster just by having more gears or 50gms less weight. Save your money and just ride more!

 

[lks]

Chorus is - and has been - 10 speed already. I know because I have it.

The trouble w/ Campy's 10sp stuff is that there just isn't enough room for 10 cogs in the rear. The chain is very skinny, but still rubs against the big ring when on the small ring with the smallest two cogs in the rear. It makes a tinking sound not unlike a poorly adjusted front deraileur. Nothing can fix that. I have never noticed this with 9sp Shimano.

Want quiet, smooth, crisp shifting with a minimum of gear noise? Go Shimano. Want a more mechanical feeling, and a whole heck of a lot more noise? Go Campy.

I am debating converting my Chorus over to Ultegra, myself.

I have no problem adjusting my Record front and rear derailleurs, on my 12-25/39-53, so there is no chain/cog/ring interference no matter what gear combination I am in, and I run a Wippermann SS chain that is wider than the Campy chain. To do this, your chainline has to be adjusted perfect. I can't do this on my Record 12-25/34-50, but I rather shift when the chain gets so far crossed up, from front to rear, anyway because it reduces cog and ring wear.

 

[JTE83]

In Simple words

Campagnolo has better brakes, levers and hubs

Shimano has better a better gear change and is actually cheaper, especially when your countries currency is high to the YEN.

I have never rode on Shimano components, but my next bike will be a Dura Ace/105 mixture, because I could not resist the low price of Shimano components.
After all Armstrong has won the tour de France 4 times, and I dont think that could be possible with trash.
The Difference between Campagnolo and Shimano is not that harsh. It's more a personal favor

Campy Record Brakes suck, and they aren't any better than the new Shimano 105 to me. Shimano hubs are better because they are more frictionless (I have R540 wheels and Campy Eurus to compare). I don't like the way Campy shifts with thumb lever.