H
Hanna
Guest
(Associated Press 10/24/04 story w2938s44 )
Bicycle Turds found floating in River
> >He told
> >the American people that he was was going to "give" them health care.
>
> That's not what I heard. I heard:
>
> "I have a plan to let you buy into the same health care senators and
> congressmen give themselves."
> ~ John Kerry, in the second Kerry-Bush debate.
>
> Get out your word processor and search for the word "give" in the
> transcript. You won't find him saying anything of the kind. He did
> say this though:
>
> "I'm going to give you a tax cut."
> ~ John Kerry, in the second Kerry-Bush debate.
>
> How pathetic your smear is! You can't even find a single REAL
> embarrassing quote from Kerry, so you are reduced to fantasizing.
>
> SURELY there is something. Don't be so lazy. Do your research. Start
> by reading the transcripts of the three debates.
>
>
> Here is the transcript if you don't already have a copy:
>
> The Second Kerry-Bush Presidential Debate 2004-10-08
>
> SECOND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES' DEBATE WASHINGTON
> UNIVERSITY, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI
>
> SPEAKERS:
>
> GEORGE W. BUSH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
>
> U.S. SENATOR JOHN F. KERRY (MA), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL
> NOMINEE
>
> CHARLES GIBSON, ABC ANCHOR
>
> GIBSON: Good evening from the Field House at Washington
> University in St. Louis. I'm Charles Gibson of ABC News and
> "Good Morning America."
>
> I welcome you to the second of the 2004 presidential debates
> between President George W. Bush, the Republican nominee,
> and Senator John Kerry, the Democratic nominee.
>
> The debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential
> Debates.
>
> Tonight's format is going to be a bit different. We have
> assembled a town-hall meeting. We're in the Show-Me State,
> as everyone knows Missouri to be, so Missouri residents will
> ask the questions.
>
> These 140 citizens were identified by the Gallup
> Organization as not yet committed in this election.
>
> Now, earlier today, each audience member gave me two
> questions on cards like this, one they'd like to ask the
> president, the other they'd like to ask the senator.
>
> I have selected the questions to be asked and the order. No
> one has seen the final list of questions but me, certainly
> not the candidates.
>
> No audience member knows if he or she will be called upon.
> Audience microphones will be turned off after a question is
> asked.
>
> Audience members will address their question to a specific
> candidate. He'll have two minutes to answer. The other
> candidate will have a minute and a half for rebuttal. And I
> have the option of extending discussion for one minute, to
> be divided equally between the two men.
>
> All subjects are open for discussion.
>
> And you probably know the light system by now. Green light
> at 30 seconds, yellow at 15, red at five, and flashing red
> means you're done.
>
> Those are the candidates' rules. I will hold the candidates
> to the time limits forcefully but politely, I hope.
>
> And now, please join me in welcoming with great respect,
> President Bush and Senator Kerry.
>
> (APPLAUSE)
>
> Gentlemen, to the business at hand.
>
> The first question is for Senator Kerry, and it will come
> from Cheryl Otis, who is right behind me.
>
> OTIS: Senator Kerry, after talking with several co-workers
> and family and friends, I asked the ones who said they were
> not voting for you, "Why?" They said that you were too
> wishy-washy.
>
> Do you have a reply for them?
>
> KERRY: Yes, I certainly do.
>
> (LAUGHTER)
>
> But let me just first, Cheryl, if you will, I want to thank
> Charlie for moderating. I want to thank Washington
> University for hosting us here this evening.
>
> Mr. President, it's good to be with you again this evening,
> sir.
>
> Cheryl, the president didn't find weapons of mass
> destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into
> a weapon of mass deception. And the result is that you've
> been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've
> changed a position on this or that or the other.
>
> Now, the three things they try to say I've changed position
> on are the Patriot Act; I haven't. I support it. I just
> don't like the way John Ashcroft has applied it, and we're
> going to change a few things. The chairman of the Republican
> Party thinks we ought to change a few things.
>
> No Child Left Behind Act, I voted for it. I support it. I
> support the goals.
>
> But the president has underfunded it by $28 billion.
>
> Right here in St. Louis, you've laid off 350 teachers.
> You're 150 -- excuse me, I think it's a little more, about
> $100 million shy of what you ought to be under the No Child
> Left Behind Act to help your education system here.
>
> So I complain about that. I've argued that we should fully
> funded it. The president says I've changed my mind. I
> haven't changed my mind: I'm going to fully fund it.
>
> So these are the differences.
>
> Now, the president has presided over an economy where we've
> lost 1.6 million jobs. The first president in 72 years to
> lose jobs.
>
> I have a plan to put people back to work. That's not wishy-
> washy.
>
> I'm going to close the loopholes that actually encourage
> companies to go overseas. The president wants to keep them
> open. I think I'm right. I think he's wrong.
>
> I'm going to give you a tax cut. The president gave the top
> 1 percent of income-earners in America, got $89 billion last
> year, more than the 80 percent of people who earn $100,000
> or less all put together. I think that's wrong. That's not
> wishy-washy, and that's what I'm fighting for, you.
>
> GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. BUSH: Charlie,
> thank you, and thank our panelists.
>
> And, Senator, thank you.
>
> I can -- and thanks, Washington U. as well.
>
> I can see why people at your workplace think he changes
> positions a lot, because he does. He said he voted for the
> $87 billion, and voted against it right before he voted for
> it. And that sends a confusing signal to people.
>
> He said he thought Saddam Hussein was a grave threat, and
> now he said it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from
> power.
>
> No, I can see why people think that he changes position
> quite often, because he does.
>
> You know, for a while he was a strong supporter of getting
> rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom -- until the
> Democrat primary came along and Howard Dean, the anti-war
> candidate, began to gain on him, and he changed positions.
>
> I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war,
> in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of
> politics.
>
> He just brought up the tax cut. You remember we increased
> that child credit by $1,000, reduced the marriage penalty,
> created a 10 percent tax bracket for the lower-income
> Americans. That's right at the middle class.
>
> He voted against it. And yet he tells you he's for a middle-
> class tax cut. It's -- you've got to be consistent when
> you're the president. There's a lot of pressures. And you've
> got to be firm and consistent.
>
> GIBSON: Mr. President, I would follow up, but we have a
> series of questions on Iraq, and so I will turn to the next
> questioner.
>
> The question is for President Bush, and the questioner is
> Robin Dahle.
>
> DAHLE: Mr. President, yesterday in a statement you admitted
> that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but
> justified the invasion by stating, I quote, "He retained the
> knowledge, the materials, the means and the intent to
> produce weapons of mass destruction and could have passed
> this knowledge to our terrorist enemies."
>
> Do you sincerely believe this to be a reasonable
> justification for invasion when this statement applies to so
> many other countries, including North Korea? BUSH: Each
> situation is different, Robin.
>
> And obviously we hope that diplomacy works before you ever
> use force. The hardest decision a president makes is ever to
> use force. After 9/11, we had to look at the world
> differently. After 9/11, we had to recognize that when we
> saw a threat, we must take it seriously before it comes to
> hurt us.
>
> In the old days we'd see a threat, and we could deal with it
> if we felt like it or not. But 9/11 changed it all.
>
> I vowed to our countrymen that I would do everything I could
> to protect the American people. That's why we're bringing Al
> Qaida to justice. Seventy five percent of them have been
> brought to justice.
>
> That's why I said to Afghanistan: If you harbor a terrorist,
> you're just as guilty as the terrorist. And the Taliban is
> no longer in power, and Al Qaida no longer has a place to
> plan.
>
> And I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, as did my
> opponent, because we thought he had weapons of mass
> destruction.
>
> And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass
> destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm
> they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied
> greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the
> serious, serious threat.
>
> So I tried diplomacy, went to the United Nations. But as we
> learned in the same report I quoted, Saddam Hussein was
> gaming the oil-for-food program to get rid of sanctions. He
> was trying to get rid of sanctions for a reason: He wanted
> to restart his weapons programs.
>
> We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent
> thought there was weapons there. That's why he called him a
> grave threat.
>
> I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and
> we've got an intelligence group together to figure out why.
>
> But Saddam Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is
> better off without him in power.
>
> And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam
> Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more
> dangerous.
>
> Thank you, sir.
>
> GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half.
>
> KERRY: Robin, I'm going to answer your question.
>
> I'm also going to talk -- respond to what you asked, Cheryl,
> at the same time.
>
> The world is more dangerous today. The world is more
> dangerous today because the president didn't make the right
> judgments.
>
> Now, the president wishes that I had changed my mind. He
Bicycle Turds found floating in River
> >He told
> >the American people that he was was going to "give" them health care.
>
> That's not what I heard. I heard:
>
> "I have a plan to let you buy into the same health care senators and
> congressmen give themselves."
> ~ John Kerry, in the second Kerry-Bush debate.
>
> Get out your word processor and search for the word "give" in the
> transcript. You won't find him saying anything of the kind. He did
> say this though:
>
> "I'm going to give you a tax cut."
> ~ John Kerry, in the second Kerry-Bush debate.
>
> How pathetic your smear is! You can't even find a single REAL
> embarrassing quote from Kerry, so you are reduced to fantasizing.
>
> SURELY there is something. Don't be so lazy. Do your research. Start
> by reading the transcripts of the three debates.
>
>
> Here is the transcript if you don't already have a copy:
>
> The Second Kerry-Bush Presidential Debate 2004-10-08
>
> SECOND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES' DEBATE WASHINGTON
> UNIVERSITY, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI
>
> SPEAKERS:
>
> GEORGE W. BUSH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
>
> U.S. SENATOR JOHN F. KERRY (MA), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL
> NOMINEE
>
> CHARLES GIBSON, ABC ANCHOR
>
> GIBSON: Good evening from the Field House at Washington
> University in St. Louis. I'm Charles Gibson of ABC News and
> "Good Morning America."
>
> I welcome you to the second of the 2004 presidential debates
> between President George W. Bush, the Republican nominee,
> and Senator John Kerry, the Democratic nominee.
>
> The debates are sponsored by the Commission on Presidential
> Debates.
>
> Tonight's format is going to be a bit different. We have
> assembled a town-hall meeting. We're in the Show-Me State,
> as everyone knows Missouri to be, so Missouri residents will
> ask the questions.
>
> These 140 citizens were identified by the Gallup
> Organization as not yet committed in this election.
>
> Now, earlier today, each audience member gave me two
> questions on cards like this, one they'd like to ask the
> president, the other they'd like to ask the senator.
>
> I have selected the questions to be asked and the order. No
> one has seen the final list of questions but me, certainly
> not the candidates.
>
> No audience member knows if he or she will be called upon.
> Audience microphones will be turned off after a question is
> asked.
>
> Audience members will address their question to a specific
> candidate. He'll have two minutes to answer. The other
> candidate will have a minute and a half for rebuttal. And I
> have the option of extending discussion for one minute, to
> be divided equally between the two men.
>
> All subjects are open for discussion.
>
> And you probably know the light system by now. Green light
> at 30 seconds, yellow at 15, red at five, and flashing red
> means you're done.
>
> Those are the candidates' rules. I will hold the candidates
> to the time limits forcefully but politely, I hope.
>
> And now, please join me in welcoming with great respect,
> President Bush and Senator Kerry.
>
> (APPLAUSE)
>
> Gentlemen, to the business at hand.
>
> The first question is for Senator Kerry, and it will come
> from Cheryl Otis, who is right behind me.
>
> OTIS: Senator Kerry, after talking with several co-workers
> and family and friends, I asked the ones who said they were
> not voting for you, "Why?" They said that you were too
> wishy-washy.
>
> Do you have a reply for them?
>
> KERRY: Yes, I certainly do.
>
> (LAUGHTER)
>
> But let me just first, Cheryl, if you will, I want to thank
> Charlie for moderating. I want to thank Washington
> University for hosting us here this evening.
>
> Mr. President, it's good to be with you again this evening,
> sir.
>
> Cheryl, the president didn't find weapons of mass
> destruction in Iraq, so he's really turned his campaign into
> a weapon of mass deception. And the result is that you've
> been bombarded with advertisements suggesting that I've
> changed a position on this or that or the other.
>
> Now, the three things they try to say I've changed position
> on are the Patriot Act; I haven't. I support it. I just
> don't like the way John Ashcroft has applied it, and we're
> going to change a few things. The chairman of the Republican
> Party thinks we ought to change a few things.
>
> No Child Left Behind Act, I voted for it. I support it. I
> support the goals.
>
> But the president has underfunded it by $28 billion.
>
> Right here in St. Louis, you've laid off 350 teachers.
> You're 150 -- excuse me, I think it's a little more, about
> $100 million shy of what you ought to be under the No Child
> Left Behind Act to help your education system here.
>
> So I complain about that. I've argued that we should fully
> funded it. The president says I've changed my mind. I
> haven't changed my mind: I'm going to fully fund it.
>
> So these are the differences.
>
> Now, the president has presided over an economy where we've
> lost 1.6 million jobs. The first president in 72 years to
> lose jobs.
>
> I have a plan to put people back to work. That's not wishy-
> washy.
>
> I'm going to close the loopholes that actually encourage
> companies to go overseas. The president wants to keep them
> open. I think I'm right. I think he's wrong.
>
> I'm going to give you a tax cut. The president gave the top
> 1 percent of income-earners in America, got $89 billion last
> year, more than the 80 percent of people who earn $100,000
> or less all put together. I think that's wrong. That's not
> wishy-washy, and that's what I'm fighting for, you.
>
> GIBSON: Mr. President, a minute and a half. BUSH: Charlie,
> thank you, and thank our panelists.
>
> And, Senator, thank you.
>
> I can -- and thanks, Washington U. as well.
>
> I can see why people at your workplace think he changes
> positions a lot, because he does. He said he voted for the
> $87 billion, and voted against it right before he voted for
> it. And that sends a confusing signal to people.
>
> He said he thought Saddam Hussein was a grave threat, and
> now he said it was a mistake to remove Saddam Hussein from
> power.
>
> No, I can see why people think that he changes position
> quite often, because he does.
>
> You know, for a while he was a strong supporter of getting
> rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom -- until the
> Democrat primary came along and Howard Dean, the anti-war
> candidate, began to gain on him, and he changed positions.
>
> I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war,
> in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of
> politics.
>
> He just brought up the tax cut. You remember we increased
> that child credit by $1,000, reduced the marriage penalty,
> created a 10 percent tax bracket for the lower-income
> Americans. That's right at the middle class.
>
> He voted against it. And yet he tells you he's for a middle-
> class tax cut. It's -- you've got to be consistent when
> you're the president. There's a lot of pressures. And you've
> got to be firm and consistent.
>
> GIBSON: Mr. President, I would follow up, but we have a
> series of questions on Iraq, and so I will turn to the next
> questioner.
>
> The question is for President Bush, and the questioner is
> Robin Dahle.
>
> DAHLE: Mr. President, yesterday in a statement you admitted
> that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction, but
> justified the invasion by stating, I quote, "He retained the
> knowledge, the materials, the means and the intent to
> produce weapons of mass destruction and could have passed
> this knowledge to our terrorist enemies."
>
> Do you sincerely believe this to be a reasonable
> justification for invasion when this statement applies to so
> many other countries, including North Korea? BUSH: Each
> situation is different, Robin.
>
> And obviously we hope that diplomacy works before you ever
> use force. The hardest decision a president makes is ever to
> use force. After 9/11, we had to look at the world
> differently. After 9/11, we had to recognize that when we
> saw a threat, we must take it seriously before it comes to
> hurt us.
>
> In the old days we'd see a threat, and we could deal with it
> if we felt like it or not. But 9/11 changed it all.
>
> I vowed to our countrymen that I would do everything I could
> to protect the American people. That's why we're bringing Al
> Qaida to justice. Seventy five percent of them have been
> brought to justice.
>
> That's why I said to Afghanistan: If you harbor a terrorist,
> you're just as guilty as the terrorist. And the Taliban is
> no longer in power, and Al Qaida no longer has a place to
> plan.
>
> And I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, as did my
> opponent, because we thought he had weapons of mass
> destruction.
>
> And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass
> destruction to an organization like Al Qaida, and the harm
> they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied
> greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the
> serious, serious threat.
>
> So I tried diplomacy, went to the United Nations. But as we
> learned in the same report I quoted, Saddam Hussein was
> gaming the oil-for-food program to get rid of sanctions. He
> was trying to get rid of sanctions for a reason: He wanted
> to restart his weapons programs.
>
> We all thought there was weapons there, Robin. My opponent
> thought there was weapons there. That's why he called him a
> grave threat.
>
> I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons, and
> we've got an intelligence group together to figure out why.
>
> But Saddam Hussein was a unique threat. And the world is
> better off without him in power.
>
> And my opponent's plans lead me to conclude that Saddam
> Hussein would still be in power, and the world would be more
> dangerous.
>
> Thank you, sir.
>
> GIBSON: Senator Kerry, a minute and a half.
>
> KERRY: Robin, I'm going to answer your question.
>
> I'm also going to talk -- respond to what you asked, Cheryl,
> at the same time.
>
> The world is more dangerous today. The world is more
> dangerous today because the president didn't make the right
> judgments.
>
> Now, the president wishes that I had changed my mind. He