shoe surgery to get cleats further back

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Dan Schaper, Jun 16, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dan Schaper

    Dan Schaper Guest

    During my quest for the pedal/cleat system to obtain maximum vRex toe numbness reduction, I observed
    with my PowerGrips/platform pedals/12yr. old stiff soled touring shoes combo adjusted to get the
    ball of my foot almost 2" in front of the axle the numbness was pretty much a non-event. However, I
    felt the constant twist in my knees and, when needing to do some serious pulling while spinning
    uphill, the powergrips required frequent repositioning of feet back to their original location.

    So I've moved on to Frogs/SidiGenius shoes that use adapters which I modified (some might say
    mutilated) to get the cleats back as far as possible. Alas I don't think they made it to where the
    platform/PowerGrips allowed. Pulling/spinning uphill is fine. Clipping-in sometimes is problematic,
    but clipping-out is a no-brainer and the knees are happy. However walking in the road shoes is often
    way too exciting and the cleats grinding on the sidewalk sound terrible.

    It appears I'm searching maybe for some mountain bike SPD shoes for the Frog cleats. Any suggestions
    as to which ones would require the least amount of grinding/drilling/whittling? Or is there a shoe
    surgery method out there I haven't thought of?

    Dan
     
    Tags:


  2. Mortdubois

    Mortdubois Guest

    I did successful surgery on a pair of Lake mountain bike shoes - I don't know the model, but they
    have laces and the sole is mostly rubber. I just hacked away the rubber with a sharp knife, and used
    a power drill to drill new holes in the hard plastic part of the shoe. I was able to move my SPD
    cleats back about 1.5", which made a huge difference in comfort and power output on my GRR. You can
    see a picture of the cleat position at:

    http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=817845&IID=25081629

    (just click on the sign in box and the image will appear. no need for password)

    I think it would probably be much more difficult to do this on road shoes - the hard plastic soles
    would end up putting the cleat at an odd angle, and it would be hard to get the bolts through the
    sole into the inside mount plate. When you move the cleat back, your shoe doesn't have to be nearly
    so stiff anyway. The lake shoes allow for easy walking even with the SPD cleat - it doesn't even
    touch the pavement.

    dan schaper <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > During my quest for the pedal/cleat system to obtain maximum vRex toe numbness reduction, I
    > observed with my PowerGrips/platform pedals/12yr. old stiff soled touring shoes combo adjusted to
    > get the ball of my foot almost 2" in front of the axle the numbness was pretty much a non-event.
    > However, I felt the constant twist in my knees and, when needing to do some serious pulling while
    > spinning uphill, the powergrips required frequent repositioning of feet back to their original
    > location.
    >
    > So I've moved on to Frogs/SidiGenius shoes that use adapters which I modified (some might say
    > mutilated) to get the cleats back as far as possible. Alas I don't think they made it to where the
    > platform/PowerGrips allowed. Pulling/spinning uphill is fine. Clipping-in sometimes is
    > problematic, but clipping-out is a no-brainer and the knees are happy. However walking in the road
    > shoes is often way too exciting and the cleats grinding on the sidewalk sound terrible.
    >
    > It appears I'm searching maybe for some mountain bike SPD shoes for the Frog cleats. Any
    > suggestions as to which ones would require the least amount of grinding/drilling/whittling? Or is
    > there a shoe surgery method out there I haven't thought of?
    >
    > Dan
     
  3. Andy

    Andy Guest

    Mort,

    I could not get the picture.

    Andy

    "MortDubois" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I did successful surgery on a pair of Lake mountain bike shoes - I don't know the model, but they
    > have laces and the sole is mostly rubber. I just hacked away the rubber with a sharp knife, and
    > used a power drill to drill new holes in the hard plastic part of the shoe. I was able to move my
    > SPD cleats back about 1.5", which made a huge difference in comfort and power output on my GRR.
    > You can see a picture of the cleat position at:
    >
    > http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=817845&IID=25081629
    >
    > (just click on the sign in box and the image will appear. no need for password)
    >
    > I think it would probably be much more difficult to do this on road shoes - the hard plastic soles
    > would end up putting the cleat at an odd angle, and it would be hard to get the bolts through the
    > sole into the inside mount plate. When you move the cleat back, your shoe doesn't have to be
    > nearly so stiff anyway. The lake shoes allow for easy walking even with the SPD cleat - it doesn't
    > even touch the pavement.
    >
    > dan schaper <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > During my quest for the pedal/cleat system to obtain maximum vRex toe numbness reduction, I
    > > observed with my PowerGrips/platform pedals/12yr. old stiff soled touring shoes combo adjusted
    > > to get the ball of my foot almost 2" in front of the axle the numbness was pretty much a
    > > non-event. However, I felt the constant twist in my knees and, when needing to do some serious
    > > pulling while spinning uphill, the powergrips required frequent repositioning of feet back to
    > > their original location.
    > >
    > > So I've moved on to Frogs/SidiGenius shoes that use adapters which I modified (some might say
    > > mutilated) to get the cleats back as far as possible. Alas I don't think they made it to where
    > > the platform/PowerGrips allowed. Pulling/spinning uphill is fine. Clipping-in sometimes is
    > > problematic, but clipping-out is a no-brainer and the knees are happy. However walking in the
    > > road shoes is often way too exciting and the cleats grinding on the sidewalk sound terrible.
    > >
    > > It appears I'm searching maybe for some mountain bike SPD shoes for the Frog cleats. Any
    > > suggestions as to which ones would require the least amount of grinding/drilling/whittling? Or
    > > is there a shoe surgery method out there I haven't thought of?
    > >
    > > Dan
     
  4. Don

    Don Guest

    dan schaper wrote:
    > During my quest for the pedal/cleat system to obtain maximum vRex toe numbness reduction, I
    > observed with my PowerGrips/platform pedals/12yr. old stiff soled touring shoes combo adjusted to
    > get the ball of my foot almost 2" in front of the axle the numbness was pretty much a non-event.
    > However, I felt the constant twist in my knees and, when needing to do some serious pulling while
    > spinning uphill, the powergrips required frequent repositioning of feet back to their original
    > location.
    >

    Dan,

    I was able to move a Frog cleat approximately 3 cm toward the heel area of a Shimano MO-33 shoe with
    the help of a dremel tool and xacto type knife. The 3 cm is measured from the center of the normal
    most rearward cleat position. The newly recessed area was filled with bathroom type silicon caulk to
    create a smoother inner surface in the shoe. For me, this has made a significant improvement in my
    comfort while riding. I have had a chance to try other shoes with a more traditional cleat position
    including the SIDI Mega and nothing matches the modified cleat position. I ride a Bacchetta Giro. I
    actually came to this conclusion after experimenting with various foot/pedal positions while riding
    a recumbent exercycle at the Gym which used a powergrip/platform system. In looking at the SIDI
    shoes I did not have the guts to do such major work on such an expensive shoe.

    I would not profess that this would work for everyone but I would encourage you to experiment. I
    would never go back now to the old position.

    Hope this helps, Don
     
  5. bentcruiser

    bentcruiser New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    237
    Likes Received:
    0
  6. Mortdubois

    Mortdubois Guest

    "Andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Mort,
    >
    > I could not get the picture.
    >
    > Andy

    Hit the link. The webpage will come up with a login box that should have "imageextreme" or
    something like it as the username, and a blank space for a password, then a button for Login. Just
    hit the login button without entering a password, and the picture should appear (it just worked a
    minute ago)

    Mort
     
  7. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    I've given up, for now, on clipless pedals and have gone back to Power Grips for this reason. I
    might try chewing up my Shimano shoes and remounting the cleats, but - really, PGs are almost as
    efficient and much more flexible.
     
  8. Dan Schaper

    Dan Schaper Guest

    > I was able to move a Frog cleat approximately 3 cm toward the heel area of a Shimano MO-33 shoe
    > with the help of a dremel tool and xacto type knife. The 3 cm is measured from the center of the
    > normal most rearward cleat position. The newly recessed area was filled with bathroom type silicon
    > caulk to create a smoother inner surface in the shoe. For me, this has made a significant
    > improvement in my comfort while riding. I have had a chance to try other shoes with a more
    > traditional cleat position including the SIDI Mega and nothing matches the modified cleat
    > position. I ride a Bacchetta Giro. I actually came to this conclusion after experimenting with
    > various foot/pedal positions while riding a recumbent exercycle at the Gym which used a
    > powergrip/platform system. In looking at the SIDI shoes I did not have the guts to do such major
    > work on such an expensive shoe.

    Luckily, the SIDIs have this adapter dealy that bolts to the bottom of the shoe for SPD(FROG)
    compatibility so the dremel work was done to them, not the shoe proper.

    >
    > I would not profess that this would work for everyone but I would encourage you to experiment. I
    > would never go back now to the old position.

    I dug a pair of Jalapenos I had originally written off as too small in the toe area and went to work
    on them. There's now about 3/8" of the original slots in the sole (which the SPD nut-gizmo that's
    inside the shoe slides in) showing in front of the cleats and 40 miles today went by pretty
    comfortably. They're also 1000% easier to walk in than the SIDI setup I'd tried.
     
  9. Mark Stonich

    Mark Stonich Guest

    "jim h" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I've given up, for now, on clipless pedals and have gone back to Power Grips for this reason. I
    > might try chewing up my Shimano shoes and remounting the cleats, but - really, PGs are almost as
    > efficient and much more flexible.

    I've been riding with my cleats moved back 2" behind the slots on my Shimano MO-33s.
    http://bikesmithdesign.com/temp/Cleat.JPG http://bikesmithdesign.com/temp/Insole.JPG

    I removed most of the sole in the instep area and created a plate from
    1/8" 6061 aluminum. I just tapped two holes in the plate to 5mm x .8mm for the cleat screws. I
    thought they might pull out, but have lasted 5 years so far. I've used them so much I had to
    resole the shoes. The plates attach to the shoe with 3 5mm screws. The front screw attaches to the
    cleat plate and the others to nuts.

    I used hardware store contact cement to attach scraps of shoe sole material to the aluminum
    alongside the cleats. The bond was so good that they were a bitch to replace at the time of
    the resole. With Shimano pedals I had to bevel the material behind the cleats to allow
    releasing. I also had to remove about 1/32" of the aluminum just ahead of the cleat for the
    pedal to engage properly.

    I'll never go back to the conventional position. I can pull up much harder now, and never get foot
    or tendon pain anymore.
     
  10. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

  11. Mark Stonich

    Mark Stonich Guest

    rorschandt <[email protected]> wrote in message news:
    > > http://bikesmithdesign.com/temp/Cleat.JP
    >
    > Where does that place the cleat "on your foot" ? Is it in the arch area (or instep)?

    2" behind the ball of the foot (ie knuckle of the big toe)

    > Does this completely eliminate numb toes?

    Yes, but I also use a 3 degree anti-pronation wedge under a good arch support.

    Numb toes were not a big problem for me, but genereal foot pain was. My main reason for moving the
    cleats back was tendonitis, which had limited my riding for 20 years.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...