Short Intervals for TT training - the point?

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by nmcgann, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. nmcgann

    nmcgann New Member

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    If short interval sessions (Nx5 min or Nx2 min Vo2max-type) aren't measurably helping to raise sustainable power (i.e. FTP) is there any point to them when training exclusively for TTs?

    (apart from "for variety" or "pain=good")

    Neil
     
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  2. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Done without a good period of solid aerobic work, shortish intervals are the equivalent of pissing into the wind. Done after a good few months of L3, maybe L4 work then they're good for adding that last bit of power.

    It's like building a tall building without a foundation and then wondering why the whole shebang falls over when you put the flagpole on the top...
     
  3. Jono L

    Jono L Well-Known Member

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    I think that's a little over the top;) Some people respond well to 'raising the ceiling' for aerobic gains. Don't forget that whole foundation theory started with the 1000km base weeks in the little ring.
     
  4. Jono L

    Jono L Well-Known Member

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    I'm of the opinion that you can only get so much FTP out of a certain VO2 and vice versa, gets to a point where you need to increase you maximal oxygen uptake then build your threshold again to a higher level with the new VO2 gains, kinda like steps.

    Or, build up your FTP with lots threshold then use VO2 intervals to induce a peak in your form..

    I don't think the importance of variety should be underestimated either.
     
  5. simplyred

    simplyred New Member

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    +1

    Like JonoL says - for aerobic training, think of it like walking towards victory. Left foot being intervals [I'm a L4/L5 guy], right foot being base building [I'm a SST/L3 guy]. And march!

    Left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot. You have to find your stride [time spent on focusing], your pace [how often you change], and your chocolate foot [what foot to start with].

    You can only do so much of one leg before one you're slowing progress [ie. dragging one foot].

    If you're one of the lucky ones to be able to pile on L5 work BEFORE SST/L3 - then kudos to you.
     
  6. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    If you believe that to be true, then there wouldn't be any point. However...

    ...if you believe that improving the oxygen delivery systems is necessary to allow further gains in the aerobic power production systems within the tissues, then I think the TT benefits can be rationalized. ;)

    Power production is a complex interaction between many different systems, but FTP can be thought of as being mostly limited by aerobic metabolism within the muscle tissue, while VO2max can be thought of as being mostly limited by oxygen delivery. Even a well-trained tissue will only develop to utilize the oxygen that it is being supplied, so there is benefit to developing both mechanisms.
     
  7. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    +1 frenchyge.

    I'd also add that's it's a rare TT where I don't exceed threshold and dig deep into VO2 max range for the final minutes - assuming I paced the first half well.

    -Dave
    P.S. I'd also agree with Swampy's original post (dang happenin' more and more often swamp :)) Shorter efforts build on top of longer efforts and I don't buy into the HIT philosophy of focusing on the short hard end of the spectrum but they do have their place in a well rounded program. Even for TT riders....
     
  8. Steve_B

    Steve_B New Member

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    To your point, here is a similar view from someone else:

    Extracted from here

    Extracted from here
     
  9. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    While I basically use that approach, there are times when I will include HIT efforts early on in a training program (but not in a typical VO2 Max interval kind of way) - as they also provide an excellent stimulus for aerobic power development.

    One should not be afraid to include such training. It is more the relative volume of such efforts that matters and to some extent it depends on how much training a rider does/can do.

    For some riders it is not necessary since they race regularly or the terrain or a solid group ride performs a similar function.
     
  10. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    Or if you ever intend to ride in a team time trial.

    I see guys that are aerobically strong, great solo endurance and speed but crack so easily in a TTT.
     
  11. Spunout

    Spunout New Member

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    You have to train L5 if you ever hope that it will become your new L4.
     
  12. wiredued

    wiredued New Member

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    I like that quote can I use it?:)

     
  13. simplyred

    simplyred New Member

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    Does that mean I should train L7 if I ever want it to be L6? [Does it work that way anaerobically?]
     
  14. Simone@Italy

    [email protected] New Member

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    I love this one, I will (try to :D) remember it when I'm doing L5 intervals!
     
  15. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, I can see logical outcome. I've gotta exclusively train L7 till it becomes L1...... Just think how fast I'll be then :)

    I swear I know folks that seem to believe this, they're out hammering for 30 seconds at a shot and wondering why they still get dropped on 20 minute climbs.

    Not knockin' ya on the L5/L4 quote Spunout, it's a good way to think about it... sooner or later you've got to raise the bar, the question is when and how much.

    -Dave
     
  16. simplyred

    simplyred New Member

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    HAHAHA... nice. And since energy production is a continuum - we should just train in L1 for 8 hrs a day. We'll be champs... [​IMG]
     
  17. Piotr

    Piotr New Member

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    To extrapolate, 24 hrs a day at L0 (Long Slow Vegetation) could be just as beneficial. There's got to be something to it since such a large part of the populace subscribes to that training approach. :D
     
  18. simplyred

    simplyred New Member

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    Awesome. :D

    600W - here I come! [I mean my 600W microwave that's done nuking my 5th Hot Pocket, training's a tough life...]
     
  19. Steve_B

    Steve_B New Member

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    So how come the RAAM riders aren't faster when they get done? :) (I mean, once they can hold their necks up without apparatus and get over their saddle sores.)
     
  20. Piotr

    Piotr New Member

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    Because they ride too damn hard. Compared to what I'm suggesting RAAM is HIT from hell. :)
     
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