shortest points between controls on AUK rides

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by MartinM, Dec 31, 2005.

  1. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    Jim Ley wrote:

    > I was assuming Martin's main issue with multiple controls was the time
    > spent at the control more than the manpower needed, risking the
    > hardware would be a seperate decision, although I've done and seen
    > orienteering events run in cities with unattended equipment.


    The issue is the breakup of the ride. There is a natural time frame of
    about 90-150mins between controls. Having to stop more frequently
    starts to detract from the rhythm of the ride (as does excessively
    twisty routes with intense navigation.)


    > Info controls are "what colour was the picture outside the church?"
    > type thing?


    Yup, or what is the name of the church at junction X?

    Basically an easy to find bit of information that you have to be at the
    site to find.

    ...d
     


  2. Nigel Cliffe

    Nigel Cliffe Guest

    David Martin wrote:
    > Jim Ley wrote:
    >
    >> I was assuming Martin's main issue with multiple controls was the
    >> time spent at the control more than the manpower needed, risking the
    >> hardware would be a seperate decision, although I've done and seen
    >> orienteering events run in cities with unattended equipment.

    >
    > The issue is the breakup of the ride. There is a natural time frame of
    > about 90-150mins between controls. Having to stop more frequently
    > starts to detract from the rhythm of the ride (as does excessively
    > twisty routes with intense navigation.)
    >
    >
    >> Info controls are "what colour was the picture outside the church?"
    >> type thing?

    >
    > Yup, or what is the name of the church at junction X?
    >
    > Basically an easy to find bit of information that you have to be at
    > the site to find.


    And definitely not a semi-cryptic puzzle for the last control before a
    finish. Otherwise you get a bunch of tired and dazed riders wondering what
    on earth the clue is about, whereas they'd get the answer in seconds if they
    were awake.

    (Recalls clue of "house for animals" about 10k before end of one ride some
    years ago. A bunch of cyclists, including me, spent a while looking in
    village for dogs home, pet rescue sanctuary, ancient cow barn, fido's
    kennel, a dove cot, etc. etc.. before deciding to ride on and have a
    discussion with the organiser about the control. Penny dropped some km's
    after the village that the pub was called "The Rising Sun".)


    "First name on village war memorial" is a simple info control :).


    - Nigel


    --
    Nigel Cliffe,
    Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
     
  3. MartinM

    MartinM Guest

    MSeries wrote:
    > MartinM wrote:
    > > My 108k AUK ride has just weighed in at 83km if one takes the shortest
    > > (usually A road) route between controls. I am faced with having the
    > > route turned down unless I put in more infos. Unfortunately due to the
    > > complex route ,which uses almost exclusively country lanes, in a big
    > > loop this will entail 6 infos and 2 proper controls, which will ruin
    > > the ride. The only alternative (and preferable to me) seems to be to
    > > put in a bigger loop to ensure that even those who "cheat" will cover
    > > the minimum distance. Neither solution is ideal. Is this something to
    > > do with not now being allowed to insist on riders using the measured
    > > route?
    > > (and I haven't even thought about AAA points)

    >
    > Put a bigger loop in.


    I visited a couple of possible control points on the route yesterday
    and I think the way to go is the 6 infos; but make them letters
    attached to the signposts so they spell a word (which cannot be guessed
    after 3 or 4 letters) and ensure that the letters are also contained
    within one of the place names on the signpost (and this is what will go
    in the Brevet card). That way riders only have to remember the slowly
    developing word and can just write it in at the end. I can put the
    letters up the week before when I ride the route as an organiser. One
    if the infos can be dispensed with because the short cut Autoroute
    suggested uses a bridleway, I'm sure no-one is going to use that.
     
  4. MartinM

    MartinM Guest

    David Martin wrote:


    > I presume the first control is the corner east of Herons Ghyll


    It's Burnt Oak if that helps (having never even heard of the place
    before this ride)

    and that
    > you have another at the Weir Wood Reservoir. Why not take the route
    > from Fairwarp to Sheffield Green and up past Horsted Keynes to the
    > reservoir? That way the shortest alternative would not be so much
    > shorter than the quiet 'official' route.


    I don't think there are enough hills in that section; it only just
    makes 0.5 AAAs as it is and by taking out Twyford I have had to put two
    more in after lunch (so no overdoing Dave's Stollen!). I also want to
    take the ride over the top of the Forest as few rides now do this, and
    enable riders to get food at Forest Row (the 2004 does not go through a
    single town)
     
  5. MartinM

    MartinM Guest

    davek wrote:
    > MartinM wrote:
    > > compensate for loss of hills

    >
    > Spoken like a true AUK!
    >
    > > no different to an info IMO; still involves stopping and reaching in
    > > back pocket for the brevet card

    >
    > On the Kent Corners 200, there is, unfortunately, the need for a control
    > about 6km into the ride. The way they manage this without getting huge
    > queues and delays is to give everyone a numbered token (a wine bottle
    > cork) at the start, someone stands at the control point with a bucket
    > and riders chuck their cork into the bucket as they pass. It's then a
    > process of tallying collected corks against the checklist of riders,
    > which can be done at leisure after the event, filling in the necessary
    > stamps on their brevet at the same time.
    >
    > Obviously, this is only really practical for one checkpoint per ride,
    > and assuming you don't have a huge turn out for the ride - unless you
    > provide each rider with several numbered corks and have enough people to
    > stand at all the various controls you need... but then that sounds like
    > an excuse to drink lots of wine between now and the date of the ride!


    Yes I've done a ride with that type of system before (it was a numbered
    disc) I'm going to use that for the first control (assuming I get there
    before the riders that is; this year I was late so had to meet them by
    driving around the route in reverse, that was due to waiting for late
    starters who will just have to catch up next year)

    I organised a reliabilty trial a month after my AUK ride; I put an info
    in there; I think every club except ours cut it short (and the daft
    thing was the info was also visible on the short cut)
     
  6. MartinM

    MartinM Guest

    Nigel Cliffe wrote:
    > David Martin wrote:
    > > Jim Ley wrote:
    > >
    > >> I was assuming Martin's main issue with multiple controls was the
    > >> time spent at the control more than the manpower needed, risking the
    > >> hardware would be a seperate decision, although I've done and seen
    > >> orienteering events run in cities with unattended equipment.

    > >
    > > The issue is the breakup of the ride. There is a natural time frame of
    > > about 90-150mins between controls. Having to stop more frequently
    > > starts to detract from the rhythm of the ride (as does excessively
    > > twisty routes with intense navigation.)
    > >
    > >
    > >> Info controls are "what colour was the picture outside the church?"
    > >> type thing?

    > >
    > > Yup, or what is the name of the church at junction X?
    > >
    > > Basically an easy to find bit of information that you have to be at
    > > the site to find.

    >
    > And definitely not a semi-cryptic puzzle for the last control before a
    > finish. Otherwise you get a bunch of tired and dazed riders wondering what
    > on earth the clue is about, whereas they'd get the answer in seconds if they
    > were awake.
    >
    > (Recalls clue of "house for animals" about 10k before end of one ride some
    > years ago. A bunch of cyclists, including me, spent a while looking in
    > village for dogs home, pet rescue sanctuary, ancient cow barn, fido's
    > kennel, a dove cot, etc. etc.. before deciding to ride on and have a
    > discussion with the organiser about the control. Penny dropped some km's
    > after the village that the pub was called "The Rising Sun".)


    That's really sneaky, surprised they let it through (you have to send
    your infos in with the route).
    Tim and I did the Upper Thames last year, one of the controls was "what
    is remembered" ?and as it passed through a village where there had been
    a famous battle we started looking for a war memorial; when we got
    there (having got lost and gone to Tescos' to look at a local map) the
    info was an Indian restaurant!
     
  7. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    davek wrote:

    > Speaking for myself, the only "competitive" target I care about is
    > achieving Super Randonneur status - and that's only because I want to
    > ride PBP next year. Sure, I could cheat my way round a 600 (quite
    > easily, I expect) but that wouldn't really be very helpful as training
    > for a 1200k ride that AIUI is quite well policed to prevent cheating...


    I think you need to achieve SR status in the PBP year itself, so an SR
    this year won't help, apart from building up a large distance base of
    course.

    --
    Dave...
     
  8. MartinM

    MartinM Guest

    Dave Kahn wrote:
    > davek wrote:
    >
    > > Speaking for myself, the only "competitive" target I care about is
    > > achieving Super Randonneur status - and that's only because I want to
    > > ride PBP next year. Sure, I could cheat my way round a 600 (quite
    > > easily, I expect) but that wouldn't really be very helpful as training
    > > for a 1200k ride that AIUI is quite well policed to prevent cheating...

    >
    > I think you need to achieve SR status in the PBP year itself, so an SR
    > this year won't help,


    this is true but an SR is an enormous boost to one's self-esteem; I
    woke up the day after a 600 to think "could I do the whole thing
    again"? and that convinced me to try for PBP. Of course how I may feel
    about it 4 years later is a DKOF. There is the rumour that an SR in 2
    consecutive SRs may be required for PBP; but so far that is just a
    rumour, much like the 1000k qualifier.
     
  9. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    Dave Kahn wrote:
    > MartinM wrote:
    >
    > > apparently secret controls are now forbidden (all to do with not being
    > > able to force riders down a narrow dark peaceful lane when there is a
    > > perfectly safe 3 lane highway they could use)

    >
    > Are you sure about that? I seem to remember having encountered one or
    > two during the year. There were also supposed to be two secret controls
    > on LEL but they did not actually materialise. In your position I would
    > definitely check this out.
    >
    > --
    > Dave...


    Supposed to be two secret controls on LEL ? I know our Brevet cards had
    a space for them but did you hear that there were going to be any ?
    IWMU that secret controls might or might not happen at any point.
    During a recent 200 our route sheet directed us to a place called
    'Secret Bunker' my companion thought that it was the direction to the
    secret control !!!
     
  10. MartinM

    MartinM Guest

    Dave Kahn wrote:
    > MartinM wrote:
    >
    > > apparently secret controls are now forbidden (all to do with not being
    > > able to force riders down a narrow dark peaceful lane when there is a
    > > perfectly safe 3 lane highway they could use)

    >
    > Are you sure about that?


    no; another organiser told me, but no mention was made of using or
    threatening one to keep riders on my route (as that would be the
    easiest thing) I did use a secret food control last year!
     
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